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RE: Bludgeon Higher Energy Cost?

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7/21/2012 12:30:11   
Kd
Member

for the last time: we are NOT comparing DS and Bludgeon, it was only an example. we ARE saying that Bludgeon can do just as much damage as fireball for significantly less skill points and energy cost, and that is what makes it overpowered.
Epic  Post #: 26
7/21/2012 12:42:21   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yes, and so can DS and isn't restricted to Physical and costs more Energy due to being Tier 1. Bludgeon is Tier 2, has only 5% more power than DS and lower cost but would you rather have higher cost + more damage or lower cost + same damage?
Also, *cough*, Fireball is Tier 1 whilst Bludgeon is Tier 2, so it's understandable it may reach as close? If it's weaker than Fireball, blockable, and has lower EP cost, as well as Tier 2, it is fine. Will just quote one post:
quote:

Now let's run down the list for Bludgeon
1. Comparable to Double Strike (melee vs melee) Definitely not comparable to either PB or FB due to the fact that both are damage range spells and unblockable.
2. Bludgeon is a higher tier and does get some boost to it
3. Bludgeon cooldown is 2 and DS is 1. Neither have warmup
4. DS costs more
5. Bludgeon is locked to only one type. Some may consider this an advantage but this means that no matter what, this skill will be less effective against a shield of that type. This means a BM with Bludgeon will always lose damage against a Physical shield whereas a Merc might not be affected by it at all.
6. Both are blockable

Can you counter that and get your point across? You seemed to avoid it completely but mention of comparing it to DS, but other points are true regarding Bludgeon. Using DS to compare to Bludgeon was to show you the power of the skill, comparing Tier 1 skill to Tier 2 and show you that difference which apparently makes Bludgeon too strong for its EP cost.
Do you understand why people should read before they pick posts apart? I said in previous post that I used the DS vs. Bludgeon comparison to show the power yet you still deny it because we're not comparing.
AQ Epic  Post #: 27
7/21/2012 12:55:05   
Kd
Member

^trans in that quote all he is doing is comparing DS and Bludgeon. You and he ARE comparing. Clearly we will have to agree to disagree about the matter as it appears we have reached a crossroads, but im assuming that everyone here who isnt a bloodmage (and i am assuming you are as you countinue to defend them and also evaded my asking of your class earlier) can agree that it is OP that a strength blood mage can do 90 damage in the first two attacks for only 51 energy while gaining about 21 health out of that 90 damage done back with max blood lust.
Epic  Post #: 28
7/21/2012 13:00:44   
Ranloth
Banned


 I am a TM and own Bludgeon, there's a character under my avatar. Also does that make me biased if I defend something that doesn't even need changes? <.< >.>

Well if you nerf Bludgeon then DS is due for one as well. Tier 1, 5% weaker and higher EP cost BUT not fixed to Physical is almost as good as Tier 2 skill that's fixed to Physical, 5% stronger and lower EP cost! Tiering does matter here, Tier 2 is supposed to have higher power than Tier 1 and since it doesn't have as big difference between DS and is locked to Physical, this explain the lower EP cost. 4th post I say that in? Ignoring it doesn't make you any smarter because I compare the two skills. Comparing them shows you the difference.
You've ignored every single point I made because it's comparing? Wait, if I wanna say why a skill isn't OP, surely I do need data to prove my point rather than make points out of thin air, no?

Also maybe it's problem with BL if you find it a problem for BMs due to HP regen, not TMs.. There's a passive revamp coming at some point where all will be weakened so they aren't a must to have to win. So they will have power similar to that of DA; players aren't forced to train it if they go for other skills and so will other passives.
AQ Epic  Post #: 29
7/21/2012 14:28:25   
Kd
Member

my appologies. however that still makes you biased towards it just as i am towards it as well because im not a mage of any form. But for these purposes im only arguing the the blood mage needs a nerf. you claim that tiering matters here, yet for a blood mage, here it just doesnt. almost all blood mages have 8-max bloodlust and blood lust is idealy placed on the tree such that one doesnt need to sacrifice any skill points to get bludgeon....if bludgeon were moved to where reflex boost currently is then i could understand your tiering point but it is not.
Epic  Post #: 30
7/21/2012 15:26:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 So truly, it's aimed at BMs in the end so as I thought. And if you think I'm biased - I have 4 other characters with every single class but BM - so this will help? Levels are somewhat alright, ranging from 17 (lowest) and then 28 'till 30.
I'd wait for passive skills revamp where BL will be probably nerfed, and same case with passives such as Reroute and others, which will definitely kill that synergy. It's still better than Zerker before, am I right? A bit more counterable than before since they'll most likely have Physical Gun + DA, Fireball and Bludgeon so putting Dex/Def Shield is much easier to counter it rather than Zerker being different to Fireball and Gun too. :P

If Bludgeon is Tier 3 now, it should receive warm-up but that'd also result in more power which it should have as Tier 3 skill now anyway + higher Energy cost. Players wouldn't like more power to it so for now it's somewhat counterable, although passive revamp should just kill it for good hopefully. Sorry if it sounds like attacking but when it comes to balance issues, I can go crazy. :P xD Also I'll send you PM in a bit with something. :)
AQ Epic  Post #: 31
7/21/2012 17:05:51   
Kd
Member

yes this is entirely aimed at blood mages, not tech mages. in my opinion tech mages are one of the most balanced and have so many different builds styles....im tempted to switch to one :D. and yes i agree it is much better then berzerker and hopefully the revamp will scale it back a bit. And no problem, we both got pretty heated there didnt we :) and okay cool ill be sure to take a look!
Epic  Post #: 32
7/22/2012 12:41:41   
Xx.Nemesis.xX
Member

How about they bring back berzerker?then bloods can be more creative(I am a bloodmage) plus we cant spam as much strength anymore(33 +27 lv 1 zerk) = less spamming

EDIT: WAIT THEY CAN GIVE Plasma Cannon a buff and make it 29 energy max andgive us back assimilation:) also a random new skill (this is balance in my PoV

< Message edited by Xx.Nemesis.xX -- 7/22/2012 12:48:46 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 33
7/22/2012 14:18:36   
Kd
Member

^ bring back berzerker?! no way this wouldnt nerf you this would give you a buff. they changed it in the first place to nerf it. Also what would assimilation replace? if assimilation replaced bludgeon then i would be okay with plasma cannon getting a buff, but id want the energy cost to stay at 33 like that of fireball's. Plasma cannon improves with tech so i doubt we'd see many blood mages using it. what would probably happen would be everyone would transfer all of their skill points from bludgeon into assimilation, max out deadly aim, or put only a few points into assimilate and improve their heal/intimidate.
Epic  Post #: 34
7/22/2012 15:04:21   
Ranloth
Banned


 Assimilate would allow EP regen at a fixed (low) amount but also less damage, although not fixed to Physical. So they'd be able to perhaps work around having double Fireball or something, but would be good since their power would go down (it's blockable + no boost). I'm all for that one + it will help non-Str builds as well since they may go for it due to EP drain/regen rather than damage. Also Plasma Cannon doesn't need a buff, some players and even Devs mentioned Bunker may need to be looked at and in that case, so would Cannon so that's a nono. :P But I'm all for Assimilate, they had it before in place of Reflex but was taken out.
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
7/22/2012 15:59:31   
Kd
Member

^ hey look we actually agreed on something ;) ...kidding of course.
Epic  Post #: 36
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