RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI


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9/18/2012 13:35:29

DestruRaGe
Member

^You need to think? no. You need a powerhouse varium char.

Epic	Post #: 351

9/18/2012 14:44:15

XxKirachanXx
Member

I beat him as a support/focus; max EMP/lv8 heal BH at level 34 with slightly outdated varium weapons and only 16 enhancements, all from credits...it did take me about 6-7 tries though

AQW

Epic

Post #: 352

9/18/2012 16:29:20

The Astral Fury
Member

BH needs some sort of a nerf I mean really strength BH are very hard to beat we need to nerf their SC or BL or something becssue their too darn strong.

AQW

Post #: 353

9/18/2012 17:13:44

Mother1
Member

Dragonman111 no smokescreen doesn't need a nerf. If they nerfed it, it would be weaker then every other debuff skill since believe it or not all of the debuffs skills are balanced (meaning non of them are stronger then the others). Also bloodlust believe it or not is weaker then it's reroute counterpart at every level.

Besides everyone has a class or build that they are weak against, and that is how it is suppose to be. You aren't suppose to be able to beat every class and every kind of build, because that in itself is what makes a build overpowered.

However when a certain kind of build is able to be every other build without effort then that is when the build is overpowered and needs a nerf. While there are some people who have problems with BH there are other players that don't.

Epic	Post #: 354

9/18/2012 17:39:04

The Astral Fury
Member

I can agree on that, but I just feel they are a little more powerful then they should be some times you know what I mean?

AQW

Post #: 355

9/18/2012 17:55:00

Stabilis
Member

Current stats:

Strength: Offensive (melee skills multiply damage (weed)) [Primary, Sidearm]

Dexterity: Omnipotent (improves offensive skills and defensive skills) [Defense, melee accuracy]

Technology: Omnipotent (improves offensive skills and defensive skills) [Resistance, ranged accuracy]

Support: Omnipotent (improves offensive skills and defensive skills) [Auxiliary, critical strike, rage, first turn]

Focus: Offensive [Robot]

To begin, Strength. This stat grows damage too rapidly. How rapidly? Starting from 1 point damage per 4 points Strength. Each point of damage can be used each turn with Strike. This synergizes... this STACKS with skills like Bloodlust. Strength being the fastest source of damage, damaging each turn as much as possible each turn to gain secondary bbonuses from Bloodlust and used in conjunction with melee skills that improve- nope. Not progressive skills- skills that MULTIPLY the damage of the current Primary in hand. Yes, while a 100 Strength Fireball (level 10) may equal approximately 70 raw points damage, a 23% modifier on Double Strike (level 1) may boost a 60 damage Strike approximately 74 raw damage. The only limiter in place? It can be blocked- yes, the downside is probability. This is not something even worth considering especially if the weight is less than 50% to be blocked... which is IMPOSSIBLE to even reach. Melee skills can not be balanced ever since they apply only to the Primary damage which is dependent on the user's make. It is strongly suggested to convert these skills into unblockable, undeflectable progression skills who's damage is determined by purely stat points. Strike itself is the only action without a cooldown. No penalty. There can be the Unarmed Strike suggestion that is Strike without calculating the Primary weapon damage and Strike acquires 1 turn cooldown. This is not even including the Sidearm.

Remind me to finish this later, Dexterity, Technology, and Support all have visible problems.

Suggestion for stats:

Strength: Offensive (does not improve melee skills, offensive skills become burst skills improving by stat progression)

Dexterity: Defensive (does not improve offensive skills)

Technology: Defensive (does not improve Robot or offensive skills)

Support: Offensive (does not improve defensive skills)

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 9/18/2012 17:56:07 >

Epic

Post #: 356

9/18/2012 18:23:58

doomturtle
Member

Why don't they make sidearms improve with support

AQW

Epic

Post #: 357

9/18/2012 18:48:01

Mother1
Member

^ That would actually make more sense them them working with strength since our sidearms are just that a support item not a weapon used for melees. However, if they did do that they would have to make deadly aim improve with something else since it improves with support.

But then again if they did to that it would be like nerfing Blood mages strength build once again, plus they would have to make Deadly aim have a different requirement besides support.

Epic	Post #: 358

9/18/2012 23:30:12

shadesofblue
Member

Balance is kinda in a wonky state right now; STR builds need nerfs and TANK builds need buffs, yet we can't buff TANK builds because it's pretty much 5 focus Infernal Android=Tank these days, and nerfing STR builds would basically kill off 50% of all the builds currently in the game, regardless of class. Also, the most OP build right now can only be used by an elite group of players, while the average player's power is probably somewhat at an all-time low (due to all the nerfs that each class got; BH used to be the model of a "balanced" class, and now they're pretty strong compared to everyone else). I think we need to rebuff all the classes; it's no fun when everyone's weak, imho. And then we have the problem where not all the stats are balanced; right now it's STR>DEX>TECH>SUPP (TECH might be in front of DEX depending on the build/class you're using). Then there's 1v1 and 2v2 pairing. Then there's the fact that not all debuffs are equal. After that, we need to fix up all the passive skills. And then there's always complaints about the RNG; I have 117 DEX over my opponent; he doesn't have SA, yet he blocks me twice in a row while landing every single hit on me? So many things to fix I don't even know where to start

AQW	Post #: 359

9/19/2012 2:44:06

Renegade Reaper
Member

Bloodmages: Fireball (unblockable and improves with strength) useable on the first turn, cool down 2, i.e. useable every three turns.

Deadly Aim: increases gun damage (gun damage also improving with strength) useable on the first turn, cool down 2, i.e. useable every three turns.

Bludgeon: blockable (for once, but improves with strength a well) useable on the first turn, cool down 2, i.e. useable every three turns.

Bloodlust: increases health for every hit that connects.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

I know Epic Duelers like to ~~let their brains sleep and~~ put everything into strength, but doing this ruins the experience for every player they face.

< Message edited by Renegade Reaper -- 9/20/2012 20:11:24 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 360

9/19/2012 3:34:00

kaiseryeux21
Member

well presented renegade.

Epic

Post #: 361

9/19/2012 22:03:11

halty
Member

when's balance change gonna be next update?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 362

9/19/2012 22:19:18

kittycat
Member

Mother1: a viable way to reduce the power of Str blood mages is to incorporate Assimilation. It should replace Bludgeon or fireball.

Post #: 363

9/19/2012 23:45:32

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@kitty You do realize there is a big problem with that because it would give them energy, health and good damage all at once right? Not to mention that even a lvl 1 Assimilation is capable of ruining most builds that aren't using Reroute or Static.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 364

9/19/2012 23:57:56

kittycat
Member

@ND: Yes it would give us energy, health and good damage at once, but how are we going to drain EP from our opponents? Yes, Lvl 1 Assimilation is capable of destroying builds. At least we can have a varied version of Assimilation, except that we don't regain energy.

Post #: 365

9/20/2012 0:00:31

Mother1
Member

@ Kittycat I wasn't talking about how to nerf str Blood mages I was just saying that if they made sidearms work with support this would be another nerf to them since they use Deadly aim with their sidearm to deal good damage.

But at the same time Deadly aim would need to work with another stat since right now it works with support.

Epic	Post #: 366

9/20/2012 0:02:10

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@kitty How are we going to poison our enemies? How are we going to increase our damage? How are mercs going to restore energy? Not every class needs to have every type of skill. This has been stated before. The ideal form of balance the staff want is for the classes to be different, not 100% clones of each other.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 367

9/20/2012 0:16:52

Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Deadly aim require str
Gun improves with support, which would make sense
Just because you are strong, doesn't mean your bullets get stronger

AQW

Epic

Post #: 368

9/20/2012 0:34:14

Mother1
Member

It would also be a step to balancing out support and strength since it would be taking away one item from strength and adding it to support. Support defiantly needs a buff and Strength needs a nerf.

Epic	Post #: 369

9/20/2012 0:34:30

kittycat
Member

@ND: Well, It is true that there classes should be unique and different, but uniqueness can lead to some disadvantages that are outweighed by the positive advantages. What kind of specialty move should BM have in that case?

@Mother1: If Sidearm improves with Support then wouldn't Support builds be OP?

Post #: 370

9/20/2012 0:36:49

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

Malf+Deadly Aim+Gun+Aux+high support. This would be too much of a buff for support. It honestly is a viable build option still despite everyone bashing it. Caster builds for the longest time were considered trash and only viable at low levels. I've seen a very successful caster build that thrived even during the heal loop mage era.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 371

9/20/2012 0:38:11

Mother1
Member

A sidearm is just that a support item. it isn't an item that is used like a primary. Also OP right now Support itself is Under powered and by moving sidearms to support it would help buff Support while nerfing Strength since Strength needs a nerf since it is abused more them most stats depending on class.

Nd Mallet they are considered trash? Casters build are now extrmely overpowered now since Plasma bolt and Plasma rain both have no stat requirement, and both of them improve with three tech for PB and 3 dex for plasma rain. What is worse is that these two skills gain more power then any other skills since just about every other skill that improves offensively improves with 4 or 5 of a stat and they have stat requirements unlike Plasma bolt and plasma rain.

It was why before they changed plasma rain to dex and supercharge to tech that casters were overpowering the masses back then, and now it is happening again.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/20/2012 0:45:52 >

Epic	Post #: 372

9/20/2012 0:52:39

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@mother1 I said "were." People seldom take the initiative to try out a new build while an OPd one is currently running around. I'd honestly say that caster build that Barney made in Beta was worse than any heal looping build but no one used it because he used it just as a challenge build for special occasions(thus not really giving it to the public) and used rare items in it as well. Support is still viable but people would much rather stick to the current OPd builds because they don't want to waste the time and effort on something that may not be as OPd.

< Message edited by The ND Mallet Guy -- 9/20/2012 0:54:38 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 373

9/20/2012 1:26:58

Mother1
Member

^ I am not surprised in the least since it is human nature to want to win all the time, and what better way to win then to go with an OP build then create your own Build? I myself have several builds I used for different classes, however those builds get mostly if not completely destroyed by the OP builds. With Caster the way they are now it is even worse then the old Str BM since with them I could beat them if I got a block or deflection, however with Caster Mages majority of their moves are unblockable and not deflectable and non of them can be blocked. It is overwelming at times, and the only way I actually get wins against most casters it if I get lucky, or if I get a crit with the right move with the II.

While it is a good thing to have problems against certain classes and certain build because that in itself is balance, it isn't a good thing that that same class/build is causing everyone else the same grief that you are experiencing.

Epic	Post #: 374

9/20/2012 6:58:00

RageSoul
Member

Well i'm back , and hey , what do i see here .... nothing changed . I was thinking if i'm gonna argue again to people about Casters not being OPed since strategy-wise and natural-power wise ( read : no boosts , no enhancements ) it's not the best ( lack of Debuffs , Strong EP drains and very fragile DEF , Boost-hogging , etc . ) , but i guess i better wait for more posts and see something more interesting .

< Message edited by Lord Aegis -- 9/20/2012 7:59:56 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 375

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