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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI

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9/20/2012 23:21:40   
halty
Member

when are they going to balance update? I want them to immediately nerf strength mass builds. Everyone keeps using it on me when i have 22-27 with 24 defense matrix and then they do about 60 damage :/.
AQW Epic  Post #: 376
9/20/2012 23:54:52   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Just nerf Caster's
It is insane
It's the one build that I lose to 100% of the time
I know that "Just because I lose to it doesn't make it OP"
But no matter what I use, I lose to them
Unless I use it
And I hate it
It makes me want to not use my support build
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 377
9/21/2012 0:05:06   
Bunshichi
Member

Seeing more 100hp caster builds its dreaded to face.

_____________________________
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 378
9/21/2012 0:06:25   
Mother1
Member

^ Blaze I lose to them almost 100% of the time as well in fact Caster TM are even worse them Str BM ever were. At least with Str BM you could block or deflect their moves. But with Casters you can't block any of their attack, and almost any form of countering them is useless since they have such high energy and health. Heck the only times I have beaten any of these casters is if I manage to crit with the right move with the II. It shouldn't be this way.

When Rabble made it so Plasma bolt and Plasma rain powered up faster then the others to help out TM he basically overpowered them. But instead of reversing what he did he just switched Plasma rain to dex. Rabble that wasn't a good move on your part.
Epic  Post #: 379
9/21/2012 7:06:22   
Rayman
Banned


 ^
Yes They Need A Nerf, I can win them but with Boosters. Every Caster TM I See force me to use boost again and again.
AQW Epic  Post #: 380
9/21/2012 12:17:15   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 OK...I go away for a month cuz I get constant battle failed to start messages and when I come back,
my level 7 static charge regains 4 EP?

Are you guys serious? Who came up with that brilliant idea...

I might have 2 chances to use static charge in a 2v2, so I can regain 8 or 9 EP? Assuming that one
of them isn't blocked...

So now you've made another skill useless...or yet another one that is only used for RAGE. How many
rages do you think we get? Now I would theoretically have to multi (don't use) and static on RAGE
just so the skill would be mediocre...

Well thought out... Multi and Static should be 2 cornerstones of any cyber 2v2 build. If you're
going to nerf them out of use (like multi), why don't you just replace them with something useful.
Do the dev's actually play this game??? I seriously think not...
Post #: 381
9/21/2012 12:33:30   
Mother1
Member

@ Archlord raistlin People complained about heal loops that certain CH hunters were abusing so the staff decided to nerf static so that it works with actual damage instead of potential damage.

Also Static was the only move in the game that had an effect that worked with raw damage, and gaining 13-20 energy for an attack that sometimes only scores 3-7 damage was vastly overpowered. plus because it working like this many CH never trained their energy because of it.

Also while static doesn't give you the energy you may like, it still gives you back energy which is more then what merc's get. Static now is more of a last resort/backup move instead of a use anytime move to gain x amount of energy back.

Lastly since you weren't hear for it Rabble who actually did this said CH are doing well in 1 vs 1 and very well in 2 vs 2 so I doubt they will be changing static anytime soon.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/21/2012 12:35:04 >
Epic  Post #: 382
9/21/2012 13:22:24   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because training Energy is too mainstream for CHs.. And relying on ONE skill, or rather being forced to, just so you can win totally means balance. No it does not. Train Energy, simple as. Other classes do it, even ones with Reroute and Reroute > SC so why's that? Perhaps they need it for their build AND spend points on Reroute? <.<

Also I see change to TMs fine when Multi and Overlord was changed, makes sense for SC to be Tech-based so I have no objections with that. Multi+PB > PB+SC due to the cooldowns and lower EP cost, this was looped even worse and you can somewhat stop current SC+PB combo. But it doesn't change the fact only PB should be changed, nothing else since TMs are balanced as it is and my idea is as it stands, +4 more EP cost to match Fireball and same progression as Fireball so 1 dmg/4 Tech not 1 dmg/3 Tech. So that's ~8 less damage per 100 Tech and +4 EP more so takes a bit longer to loop it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 383
9/21/2012 15:56:52   
Mother1
Member

Trans I still think a stat requirement should be added to plasma bolt along with making the energy cost and the way it powers up on par with fireball. Leaving out a stat requirement would still make Pb easily abused since a lot of the casters I see only train their skills to meet the requirement of their weapons. A lot of those weapons depending on them still leaves room for abuse especially if they decide to use a beta weapon which I have seen at least 2 of these mages use at the higher levels, and with some of my alts I seen level some old mages at level 27-28 fully equipped with this gear.

But then again with what I have seen with the way they nerf sometimes they nerf more then what people complain about like how they nerf Plasma cannon when no one said anything about that one.
Epic  Post #: 384
9/21/2012 18:16:03   
lampur1
Member

Hello.
i have my non-varium lvl 31 tech mage and i cant doo anything
Its Alredy getting anoyng.
Its not abaot the build but i feel like its unfair to make a lvl 31 non-varium player go up against a lvl 35 full varium person and almost like
80 % of the enemys are lvl 35 varium.by that i mean that you only fight lvl 35 and if you are lucky u go up against like a low lvl char
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 385
9/21/2012 18:34:18   
Mother1
Member

They are already taking steps to change this. The first one was the trend they started with the infernal Android. Which is making it buyable with credits or varium. Then The new charface weapons and the new armor which follow the same trend as the infernal android.

As for the battles range yeah I had to go through it too when leveling up, however they did this so you can get a battle quick and not have to wait. remember just because you are on a full server doesn't mean you will get a battle. The following factors will come into play

Players not being in your level range
Players that are already in battles
Players doing different battle modes then you (in you case jugs and 2 vs 2)
Players not battling at all but chatting it up with other players.

these all play into your pairings in battles.

As for varium players yeah they still have the enhancement advantage since it is way cheaper to enhance with varium then credits, which is what they need to work on next. Making cheaper enhancements for non variums. even with the new trend of equal weapons it is pointless without enhancements. When they fix that the only disadvantage you will have will be is the level disadvantage which will disappear as you level up.
Epic  Post #: 386
9/21/2012 18:51:10   
lampur1
Member

yea the only prob with charfades items is that they cost ALLLOOOOTTTT
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 387
9/21/2012 23:43:24   
RageSoul
Member

Just buff the other builds and classes that need a buff already . Nerfing is too old-school and worse .
AQW Epic  Post #: 388
9/21/2012 23:55:52   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @lord This topic has been brought up countless times before. It's always chalked up to the same two reasons why the pick nerfing one over buffing 5.
1. Time. They need time to think of the 5 buffs, test the 5 buffs and then collect data on the 5 buffs after they go in-game to see if they need fixed. It can take months for just a single nerf to a class let alone a buff to 5 classes.
2. Current battle limitations. There is only so much power you can give the players before the battles turn into 1-2 hit kills each battle. Battles nowadays hardly last 1-2 minutes if it's not a 2vs2. If they keep buffing classes then the battles could be over in seconds.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 389
9/22/2012 6:05:21   
Mother1
Member

ND Mallet, the last balance update the nerfed 3 classes and with two of those classes they did 2 nerfs each. I am guessing it is a lot easier for them to nerf classes rather then buff them.

However, the only class I see that needs a buff would be the Merc class. They still have no way to counter debuffs that is built into their build, and not only that the bots that would help them with this got not only because of not testing the OP infernal android properly (I say this because it brought on idea to check out all the bots) but because the bot itself they claimed was 'to useful'. I mean seriously I don't use this bot like that, however before the infernal android came this was the main bot non varium players (especially non varium mercs) not only by choice, but because it was the only bot they could get.

However here is an idea I thought of for a more useful passive for mercs since they don't have this build in protection like every other class does.

Status immunity

Effect ignores X% of all debuffs
Stat require support 42 at max
improves with none

LVL 1 2%
LVL 2 4%
LVL 3 6%
LVL 4 8%
LVL 5 10%
LVL 6 11%
LvL 7 12%
LvL 8 13%
LvL 9 14%
LvL 10 15%

at least with this passive if they made it into the game it would help some what. Plus with the bot it would help make up for the lack of defensive buffs.
Epic  Post #: 390
9/22/2012 6:22:13   
Wootz
Member

^
Sounds fair, at max it would ignore 4,95, rounded up to 5 points off my Smoke Screen, so it isn't really that powerfull as it looks life.
AQW Epic  Post #: 391
9/22/2012 8:35:28   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @mother I've always thought of mercs as the flexible class of ED. They may have their drawbacks but they're definitely capable of doing multiple builds AND doing them well. They can do tanks or glass cannons just as well if not better than other classes. Their str builds can kill faster than a BM can and their tanks can last much longer with their rage control using Surgical Strike. If they were to revamp Intimidate like they did with Field Commander(giving it a secondary effect as a small buff but leaving the skill alone on other classes using it) that they'd probably do very fine, especially in the current era of strength builds.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 392
9/22/2012 8:53:42   
Wootz
Member

ND,
I think they said that they'll revamp Intimidate. And Cyber Hunter is way more flexible.
AQW Epic  Post #: 393
9/22/2012 8:57:30   
midnight assassin
Member

Tm and var is the only reason on why I temporarily quit. I've wasted credits and time thinking of a good build. Non-var becomes a punching bag especially when it comes to a caster tm. The new armor is not enough the fact that it is limited and most var users picked up the credit version. To add up only varium kills balance. Tm is balanced before but now var ruined it. Also there's a ticking time bomb right now that will soon destroy bh. This will be my last post for now unless they restore the balanced tech mage back.

< Message edited by midnight assassin -- 9/22/2012 8:58:49 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 394
9/22/2012 9:24:04   
Mother1
Member

midnight assassin. That is what happens when they try to buff a class without testing it properly. Remember buffs and nerfs affect all of that class not just a set group. Back when I first started as a non varium mage I was the punching bag of the classes. So they buffed up plasma bolt and rain to give casters at lower levels a fighting chance. However they didn't know that it would overpower the higher level casters.

As for Varium it isn't even Varium but the enhancements that make the gap. I have 2 alts that use varium that I earned but they don't use enhancements. Sometimes I win sometimes I lose and this is to both Varium and non varium alike. It is the enhancements that variums players can get easily that non varium players can not that is upsetting the balance. Do you think it would be this easy for Varium players to beat up non varium players if they were fully enhanced? No it wouldn't be that easily.

As for the new trend they did yeah while it was nice of them to final make equally powered equipment (which many varium players don't like since most have been with the advantage for so long) even with the credit versions being more expensive then the varium and credit varium versions most will just by out the credit versions and save their varium. I noticed that the credit versions sold out quickly while the varium versions however didn't. I have to agree it isn't fair to the non varium players.

What would balance the game out even better is that if they made enhancements much cheaper for credits. Making credit enhancements as cheap but not too cheap for non variums and keeping up this trend with these and future items will help level the playing field enhancement wise.

ND Mallet At the higher levels yes, but at the mid to lower levels I have tried several different builds only to be at the mercy of BH and TM with TM being the worst of the two since if I get smoked I can counter with Intimidate somewhat. However TM at the lower levels are mostly casters that use as I said before the malf plasma bolt combo. One time when I was fighting one I blocked the malf strike only to get hit with a non rage plasma bolt that score a 62 on me when it crit and this is without the II while I know the combo is suppose to be super effective that is crazy and what makes this even worse is that it wasn't like i didn't have any defense left after I was malfed. I had 10-14 +1 -1 +5 which is 15 at the lowest and 19 at the best. Even thought they weren't using the war weapon, it felt like they did because that one attack took over 90% of my bar and even if I had more health that number is still crazy and this mage was at level 25 with non varium items.
Epic  Post #: 395
9/22/2012 13:03:50   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 @mother1 thanks for the info update...

Rabblefroth has some issues when it comes to these changes. It seems to me he frequently
listens to a minority and screws the majority... First, and totally out of the blue, multi is left
alone for 1v1, but taken down to 70% for 2v2, making it a totally worthless skill for 2v2 players.
Even @ 85% (for the cost) it is still pretty useless in 2v2. CH static/heal loop must be more of a 1v1
issue because I did not see it that frequently in 2v2. So instead of capping the skill, or some other
adjustment that mainly addresses the abusers, he screws everyone who's a CH. Thanks dude...
you're awesome...maybe think for yourself once in awhile... Next time think of a static progression
based on actual energy regain per skill point used, capping it at less than 17 to limit heal loop abusers,
or do what you always do - add cooldown time. Lots of alternatives versus what you did...

...and btw, heal looping is totally boring and would run it's course anyway without intervention,
so why this was some "must fix!" issue idk... and really, is there a more heal looping class than
strength bloodmage (just in a different way)??? Especially when practically the entire BM class
runs the same build?

2v2 gets NO respect from dev's and these constant skill nerfs frustrate the hell out of everyone.
Yeah, it's hard to please the majority, but we are not idiots...if you make balance decisions that
make majority sense...great, I can live with that. Changes like multi and static just don't make
sense for the majority of non-abusing players.
Post #: 396
9/22/2012 13:34:35   
The Astral Fury
Member

Okay with TM let's take away reroute, give a stat requirment for plasma bolt and make plasma bolt improve with dex. I think that should solve everyones problems.
DF AQW  Post #: 397
9/22/2012 13:37:16   
Darkwing
Member

plasma bolt - dex, multi -dex, overload - dex. that would make some kind of dex build that blocks a lot and can use 3 high damage skills


now what other passive would you give TM instead of reroute?

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 9/22/2012 13:39:01 >
Post #: 398
9/22/2012 13:49:38   
The Astral Fury
Member

Lol i know I was joking. But for the Tech Mage issue I would give plasma bolt a stat requirement increase it's EP value along with increasing Field Medic's EP value and make plasma bolt improve with support.
DF AQW  Post #: 399
9/22/2012 13:55:16   
The Astral Fury
Member

Okay with TM let's take away reroute, give a stat requirment for plasma bolt and make plasma bolt improve with dex. I think that should solve everyones problems.

I don't think TM is OP but it is pretty good. Instead of nerfing it why don't we give each class a combo build or buff that can make them on par, sure it will take longer and be harder, but it will give a better result which everyone will be happy with and won't nerf a class that is basically useless and that make another class OP which will contine this cycle we always been nerfing and it hasen't really helped the balance issue let's buff the others and see what happends.

< Message edited by dragonman111 -- 9/22/2012 13:56:59 >
DF AQW  Post #: 400
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