RE: =OS= Beta Release Thread 124 - READ THE FIRST POST


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5/19/2013 11:38:23

Vagaran
Member

@Cyber
The game is still in beta. The major features, Artifacts (no, I don't count XP Boost as one), Beta Revolution Part 2, Resistance/weakness, CC Series have yet to be released. It's still to early to judge the game. As for the level difference, there will most likely be looked into it but with other huge features (like the ones I mentioned above) don't expect it anytime soon.

Not sure about this part:

quote:

Overleveled people with higher HP, better existent decks; rampant imbalance. While there are things being done about it (hopefully), fact of the matter is that this is a problem. Why can't characters just have fixed HP? Increased HP just makes PvE more tedious over time during farming and only creates imbalance in PvP. It is significantly more easier to balance the 194 characters when they start gaining some more things for themselves and that can start with fixed HP values (and base stats in the future). You put fixed HP, we won't need level restrictions for the moment and we won't have imbalance. PvP activity will skyrocket. Seriously, the best way to make PvP active is to make it accessible to everyone fairly.

Are you saying all character, no matter the level, should have the same amount of HP? If that is what you are saying, then no. Thoses who spent hours to get a character up in levels gets the edge with more HP. You don't even have to farm 24/7 to get a character to 20, just use 1-3 hrs each day if you want.
¨
EDIT:
For your information, TheSage already said they would work on balancing out elements with Fire being on their list.

< Message edited by vagaran123 -- 5/19/2013 11:39:44 >

Epic

Post #: 226

5/19/2013 11:44:12

Hakunin
Member

@Cyber
try posting this here: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21282441 . You have some good idea for future.
Here you just vote yourself for a warning.

I've read all, and for this special occasion (what might result5 in banning me) tell my view:
- OS is not a game yet. It is in demo-state.
- the game only wants you level 4-8 characters, not all gazillion.
- imbalance is present in all games. So what. The potential problem is the PtP and FtP possibilities.
- overleveling is restricted in PvP button. It is nice to be able to duel with anyone you want.
- fixed HP would destroy leveling.

The important problems are with the bugs, and "engine-problems" with such things I though would be simple to program, like chaos cards, where my way outdated knowledge would say write this command "if card X played hit Y damage", where Y for a chaos-card would be "RNG" instead of fixed value.

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Btw, anyone want to make a bet at which try I'll get Cosoma? I have 6 unsuccessful attempt until now. Got Ninja some days ago at the 8th.

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AQ	Post #: 227

5/19/2013 11:47:52

Cyberbeast10
Member

I do 1 hour a day, it gets the job done and my WE is already at 17.
I'm aware this game is in Beta, but the fact is that this game has problems that need to be addressed and you can't just not keep quiet about it. What if they think we are okay with this stuff? I'm pointing out this stuff is bad and should be fixed.

...and that is exactly what I meant. I already said that, due to the current state of the game, HP differences only causes imbalances and until the game is balanced more or a new use is found for levels, HP should be fixed to help balance characters that have bad decks or to fit their playstyle. Levels could be altered so that they grant acess to dungeons/encounters/events.

AQW

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Post #: 228

5/19/2013 11:49:37

The Jop
Member

@Cyber
You said yourself that 606 battles was a ridiculous amount of battles that take a lot of effort to go through, so why would you make it so that getting higher levels gives you no advantage in PvP at this point?

AQW

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Post #: 229

5/19/2013 11:49:55

Megadragonknight
Member

It will take time to do the interesting and fun stuff. Time and patient is precious for OS. All we can do is just to keep testing and make any comments on what to improve and the success of the release. OS will be interesting and fun as time goes by. Believe in that with your soul.

On a side note, Dread Fiend level 17! 3 more level and I will hopefully be the first to get Dread Fiend to 20! Time to sleep now. I will see you guys in the evening tomorrow. My timeline is 12 hours faster than US timeline. So, bye everyone!

Post #: 230

5/19/2013 11:53:13

Beck
Member

@Cyber
I see no reason your post would be deleted. You raised valid points and were not being disrespectful about it.

That being said, 1, 2, and 3 of the points you raised are great suggestions that can unfortunately only be fixed with time. The team is too busy trying to crank out more basic gameplay features to mess with the battles and rewards system right now. Card Customization is their solution to your comment about how only a few of the characters are really strong.

I do have a problem with your imbalance thing though. About how HP differences is an imbalance, specifically. Right now, that is our only reward for leveling characters. That is the difference between a level 1 and level 20, and what people work days, weeks, and months towards. Claiming that their hard-earned advantages are unfair is just harsh.

So, what do you mean by balance exactly?

AQW	Post #: 231

5/19/2013 11:54:33

Cyberbeast10
Member

quote:

@Cyber
You said yourself that 606 battles was a ridiculous amount of battles that take a lot of effort to go through, so why would you make it so that getting higher levels gives you no advantage in PvP at this point?

Well, the thing is. You level up your character as you play it. You can't stop leveling because it is inevitable (unless they added a level-up button). Since it is forced, I don't think we should concern ourselves with the advantages if not actually how entertaining it is to get there. I would like to remove level advantages so we can break the level restrictions to allow more widespread PvP.

I already said Leveling can be moved to open dungeons/shops/events/tournaments on top of the fact it already works to evolve your character. What we really need is to give a reward for level 20 Legendary.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 232

5/19/2013 11:58:05

Vagaran
Member

@Cyber
The current HP system is fine, better than the one we had in Alpha. Just let it stay, one of the few reasons to why people even bother getting to 20 with a character is so they can PvP with that character with the max HP (to survive longer). Believe it or not, but some characters really need to get more HP to be good (like shadow characters who got Sacrifice), adding a fixed HP at all lv just ruins this.

Also getting through 606 battles is hard as you said, so why shouldn't the player who did go through this be rewarded with highre HP meaning longer survivability?

Epic

Post #: 233

5/19/2013 12:00:15

Beck
Member

@Cyberbeast
There are better ways to improve fairness in PvP without messing with the HP gains from leveling. And given time, I'm sure the team will come up with something.

As it is, leveling characters is just about the only reason I still play this game. So to say that you want to remove the benefits of leveling up is just absurd to me.

AQW	Post #: 234

5/19/2013 12:00:30

Asuka
AQW Designer of All Things

@Cyber

Improvement takes time. Things are being worked on; I can assure you that. but not everything we want can be finished in a day or two. Major changes to stuff is daily, some things just break for no reason and we have to wonder how and why, bug reports take time as well to re create, find cause, fix, repeat.

Things are being worked on. A reward enough is you get access to more powerful base cards in your character's deck. What else would you need?

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Post #: 235

5/19/2013 12:06:16

Cyberbeast10
Member

I'm aware that some characters need better HP. But, you just proved my point. Some characters need better HP to be balanced, so there is a level imbalance right there. What I'm saying is that what if Pyre Witch (insanely aggressive) just had a permanent 25 HP while Void Incarnate (insane sacrifices) just had permanent 35? This is why I don't want levels to affect battle outcomes. It should be used for access to quests/new characters/tournaments. Also, like I said, we already have evolutions at 4,10 and 20 which provide the rewards for leveling. The problem is really there is no reward for Legendary leveling then.

Anyways, my argument stands that since leveling is "forced" players really shouldn't be looking for rewards all that much except access to features (access to new characters could actually be seen as a good rewards since said character could be strong). You see where I am getting at? I just think that levels could have equivalent uses without being so direct deciders in battles. There is a lot of things that could be done with it, as I have seen many games use levels to "strengthen" characters indirectly.

This seems to be a point where our opinions differ.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 236

5/19/2013 12:11:18

Vagaran
Member

quote:

The problem is really there is no reward for Legendary leveling then.

There is a reward.

Take a look at all legendary characters deck. Then compare to a normal master/vet/app.

All the legendary characters are usually a bit more stronger than a normal master/Vet/App.

Epic

Post #: 237

5/19/2013 12:13:15

megakyle777
Member

Well, when Stats come out, that will be reward enough for leveling. Although, having SAID that, if your stats are tied to a character's lervel if you go for a Legendary you are going to lose out majorly. Unless they are tied to the account rather then the character, whoich may work better for beoing allowed to customise then rather then having them fixed for each character which I would assume would be the case it it was tied to character level. But then, how would you apply leveing to the account?

I dunno, stats raise too many questions for me. Although I want them in game.

DF	Post #: 238

5/19/2013 12:13:49

Jmagician
Member

I have read all of Cyber's point, and I have to agree with all of them except for one. The HP 'issue'. There is nothing wrong nor should anything be fixed with the current levelling rewards but the rest of the points are perfectly valid and supportable.

However, I would not concern myself with these issues now because they aren't relevant with the current age of the game and all the changes its going through. These concerns should definitely be addressed in the future.

AQW	Post #: 239

5/19/2013 12:17:26

Beck
Member

@Cyber
The set-HP thing, depending on character, is a new idea I haven't seen here yet. And I think it would make for interesting challenge fights. However, I would not want this implemented in-game, since HP-gain IS your reward for leveling up, and leveling up is most players' main drive for playing this game (see various previous posts). I do not consider leveling "forced". As it implies that it happens inevitably. I can assure you that A LOT of effort goes into leveling anything to 20.

Actually, I disagree with your idea of "balance" in general. The way you put it is, you want no character to have any advantage over other characters. That is different from fairness, and kills creativity and drive amongst players to better their characters.

AQW	Post #: 240

5/19/2013 12:18:39

Vagaran
Member

@Megakyle
Stats most likely will work like in MQ/DF/AQ/ED.

You get X amount of stat points per level.

I would guess on maybe 1-3 stat points per level.

Epic

Post #: 241

5/19/2013 12:23:28

megakyle777
Member

Vagaran: The problem is level is tied to each individual character and goes back down each evo.

DF	Post #: 242

5/19/2013 12:25:22

Jmagician
Member

@vagaran: It would be interesting if this game takes a big turn towards Pokemon with respect to stats. I mean, what if stats are treated as variables that are subject to what characters you face in the wild. This would slow down the levelling process because of those who would want to focus on a certain stat and thus would need to focus on certain characters that yield that certain stat boost upon defeat so it may not be too favourable. But it is a nice start for brainstorming ideas because I like for this game to be unique even in the most simple/common aspects of an MMO.

AQW	Post #: 243

5/19/2013 12:31:52

Desmodus
Member

quote:

Character Suggestion Contest

Please be on the Forums AND Twitter. PLEASE! They could get a bigger talent pool that way.

quote:

Vagaran: The problem is level is tied to each individual character and goes back down each evo.

So why not just keep the stats you had before you evo'd, then just add the stat points you gained from lvl'ing the next rank on? There'd have to be limits based on rank of course. Noone wants to meet a lvl 20 apprentice with legend stats.

< Message edited by Desmodus -- 5/19/2013 12:44:49 >

AQW

Post #: 244

5/19/2013 12:40:47

Vagaran
Member

@Jmagician
No, that would demand an escape button and as far as I know Nulgath want to make such option BUT with limitations so you don't spam escape everytime. I personally don't want it to be like EV in pokemon, there are many different characters in one area alone, what if you don't encounter the character that gives you the stat needed? It would just be too problematic to be useful.

Epic

Post #: 245

5/19/2013 12:44:59

Jmagician
Member

@vagaran: Well, about the areas, he could easily re-arrange characters of certain stat boosters to be in one area with the exception of one or two characters that offer something different (to make training some sort of a challenge). BUT, you raise valid points and in general it would be a very bad idea. I agree. But really, there are tons of ways the team could go about Stats.

AQW	Post #: 246

5/19/2013 12:45:38

daichi
Member

Well, do you guys think elemental resistance/weakness will help any? -Daichi the graduated paladin

@below thanks!

And, I forgot about the current lack of chaos.

I wonder when we'll get one.

< Message edited by daichi -- 5/19/2013 12:51:29 >

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Post #: 247

5/19/2013 12:48:45

Beck
Member

@Daichi
1) Congrats on being valedictorian!!
2) I think it would make farming way more fun, but also upset some people who are happy with the way things are right now, in regards to PvP. Mainly, it would make Founder Champions utter beasts, since there are no Chaos characters yet.

AQW	Post #: 248

5/19/2013 12:50:16

Jmagician
Member

@Beck: For sure Nulgath will release a few Chaos types when E-Resistance comes out to balance things out.

EDIT: I love how the E-Resistance chart makes so much sense. I am not too sure, but I think Ice is powerful against Fire in DF and odd weaknesses of that nature. o.o

< Message edited by Jmagician -- 5/19/2013 12:52:28 >

AQW	Post #: 249

5/19/2013 12:54:52

Beck
Member

@Jmagician
That was just one example. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I'm sure the team is very aware of the ways things could go wrong with each new feature added.

AQW	Post #: 250

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