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RE: =OS= Beta Release Thread 131 - READ THE FIRST POST

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9/19/2013 6:53:32   
Lemonus
Member

Dat Mana Golem.

I'll definitely go(lem) get it when it's out.
DF AQW  Post #: 501
9/19/2013 9:41:21   
Cyberbeast10
Member

I believe Ice Orb/Snow Orb is long overdue for a buff/change. It is completely outclassed by Crush, Tree of Life, Super Charged, Fire Characters and possibly a couple more stuff I haven't mentioned. It is simply too cost inefficient to warrant a use, especially when it is very difficult to build up because your shields can constantly be reduced. Their cost either need to be reduced or the properties of the attack need to be better.

For example, maybe instead of converting all your shields into an attack, it converts half of your shields and deals double damage, which rewards the player with a 2 cost ratio every once in a while if they can maintain their shields up. As it stands, these 2 cards are outclassed because, despite their apparent 2 cost ratio, they cost too much since they consume your shields.
AQW Epic  Post #: 502
9/19/2013 10:00:47   
clintonian
Member

Buff snow orb/ice orb? im sorry but do u not know how good I mean cheap ice is *cough* shatter *cough*


< Message edited by clintonian -- 9/19/2013 10:03:14 >
Post #: 503
9/19/2013 10:07:34   
Megadragonknight
Member

@cyber
Although I do agree that Ice Orb and Snow Orb is outclassed by those new cards you mentioned, but don't forget that ice still have freeze and shatter. That's one reason why Ice Orb and Snow Orb won't get a buff. Freeze will allow you to gain time to increase your shield and then you can use Ice Orb or Snow orb but only when the time is right.
Post #: 504
9/19/2013 10:19:06   
Cyberbeast10
Member

I don't find it correct to "fix" characters by giving them bad cards when they have good ones. It boils down the gameplay to being more luck-oriented because bad hands can be more prominent and worse. "Shatter" being good doesn't justify Ice/Snow orb being underpowered. Also, Shatter isn't that impressive considering it is "Poison"s equivalent, "Lightning Arc" would be far more broken since Ice characters are long battle-esque characters were that 3 cost ratio will really payoff in the long run.

"Freeze" is the one thing they really have going for it, so much that it is practically a design rule to not having more than 1 of them in a deck. It's mere existence warrants a bit of an overall nerf in other moves, but Ice/Snow Orb is simply too bad! It needs a buff so it has a use.
AQW Epic  Post #: 505
9/19/2013 10:26:25   
Megadragonknight
Member

@cyber
Maybe in the next CC series 2, ice will have better cards but I still have to say that Ice is still one of the most OP element in OS. Also, freeze is consider one of the OP cards which is why it was not included in the Ice CC series 1. Beside, almost every ice characters have freeze which will be very useful alongside shatters and gaining more shield to use Ice Orb at the right timing.
Post #: 506
9/19/2013 10:26:35   
The Jop
Member

The fact that ye be meant t' use Ice Orb at 2000 shields t' finish t' battle warrants its cost. Crush be limited in damage and earth characters usually have less shields, but I think Ice Orb's energy cost could be reduced since t' shield cap lowered its usefulness by a lot. Imagine if Ice Orb only took half the shields; ye would be unstoppable. Ye would replace the 1000 shields immediately, maybe add some shatters and freeze. No, that be farrr too much. It be possible t' draw freeze twice in a row which already make it a stun-locking element.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 9/19/2013 12:36:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 507
9/19/2013 10:31:49   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Jop
Well, it will have to depend if nulgath will do that. If Ice Orb's energy cost is reduced, I think it should reduced to 7-8. All this is for balanced.

Edit: By the way, is Sword Warrior really hard for you guys to train to Tharr?

< Message edited by Megadragonknight -- 9/19/2013 10:39:28 >
Post #: 508
9/19/2013 10:42:20   
Cyberbeast10
Member

@Mega: I'm quite aware how Ice characters are. I've seen the double Freeze dilmena (as the user and the victim). But, like I said, you cannot justify a horrible card with better cards. "Tazer" is better than "Stone Strike", but I ain't mad, "Stone Strike" is still very practical despite being outclassed. "Mark of Death" is outclassed by "Mountain Strike", I ain't mad. "Surge" outclasses "Might", no problem, etc.

The thing these situations have in common is that, despite being outclassed, they are still practical. Ice/Snow Orb are so bad they are not practical because they are cost inefficient with a ratio less than 1. I mean, Snow Orb is outclassed by 2 500 attack cards (same number of cards for combo, but common attack cards are more efficient); Ice Orb, by 4 500 attack cards (although in this case, Ice Orb requires 1 less card, but it cannot be pulled off on the same turn). When a special card is being ouclassed by common cards, you know it's horrible!

@Jop: I can agree my take on Ice Orb could be broken. The simplest form of buffing is lowering the cost. But, there are other forms of buffing.
AQW Epic  Post #: 509
9/19/2013 10:51:51   
Megadragonknight
Member

@cyber
Yes. Your points are all agreeable. I never disagree a single point with you. I look at just how Ice Orb and Snow Orb was outclassed, but I still see how strong the combination of Ice Orb, shatter and freeze. Together, they are strong, but if Ice Orb is individual, it will be outclassed. I hope you know what I mean. My explanation is quite bad but I try to explain as clear as possible.

So, I won't be really against the buff of Ice Orb and Snow Orb but it will have to depend on Nulgath.
Post #: 510
9/19/2013 10:52:35   
clintonian
Member

@cyber You have to understand because of how ice is snow orb and ice orb have to be like that.

< Message edited by clintonian -- 9/19/2013 10:55:05 >
Post #: 511
9/19/2013 10:56:03   
necro rouge
Member

@cyber
The problem here is that Ice is way too strong for it to be balanced with having a practical nuke. With so many shields, the only 2 round stun in the game AND a very easily accessible 2x efficiency DoT, it simply wouldn't be balanced if it had a stronger nuke. (not that it is balanced as it is, but that is another discussion entirely)
AQW  Post #: 512
9/19/2013 10:57:07   
DeathGuard
Member

@Mega: Not really, Sword Warrior was lvl up fast due to effectiveness of CC cards, so you shouldn't worry. Tharr is pretty cool and strong so you will have fun with him.

On topic: Lvl 14 with Stone Assasin, oh lovely Earth CC xD
I really need Nature's Gift to complete my Earth Deck, as well possessing Earth Elemental
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 513
9/19/2013 11:02:48   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Deathguard
The main problem is that I never bought a single Nuetral CC as I wasn't present in OS when Nuetral CC Series was released. I can only depend on my 10 x-boosts. Anyway, its already level 17. It will be level 18 soon. I can level him to 2 by tomorrow and then evolve him to Tharr but I don't have a single SG. So I will need to save up more money so I can buy more SG package.

< Message edited by Megadragonknight -- 9/19/2013 11:08:05 >
Post #: 514
9/19/2013 11:08:26   
DeathGuard
Member

I only added a Power Strike so it won´t change to much. About boosts, have 18/20 so will last more than I did but hey, it is funnier that way xD
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 515
9/19/2013 11:11:08   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Deathguard
Dude, I don't get the part about "last more than I did".

Edit: Oh, I encountered hammer nomad in grotto. Never expect to see him in grotto.

< Message edited by Megadragonknight -- 9/19/2013 11:15:37 >
Post #: 516
9/19/2013 11:14:48   
DeathGuard
Member

You will enjoy the slowness of lvling right now so don't get too happy yet XD
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 517
9/19/2013 11:16:46   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Deathguard
For some reason, I think I am enjoying a bit.

Edit: Right now, I am training him at grotto due to avoiding the fan girls.

Edit2: Level 18 Sword Warrior. 2 more level and Tharr will be mine but not until I got my SG package though.

< Message edited by Megadragonknight -- 9/19/2013 11:46:28 >
Post #: 518
9/19/2013 12:01:46   
Beck
Member

@Cyberbeast
*waves* Hello, Ice Beetle user here. I don't have any complaints about Ice Orb. The thing with Ice is that you can draw shields very easily, and it's not at all hard to build up to 1000+ shields. And, I feel Ice Orb is more of a last resort move; one that requires careful setting up and timing to pull off. I don't personally count the cost of the Shield cards in with the Ice Orb cost, since I'm gonna be shielding ANYWAY, so really, it does a max of 2000 damage for 10 energy, which is more than fair.

If you make Ice Orb/Snow Orb any more cost efficient, Ice would be simply too strong. It would have a much higher direct attack potential, to compliment its already very high defense and DoT potential. One element can't be good at ALL of those things; people are already complaining about Ice being OP :P
AQW  Post #: 519
9/19/2013 12:09:21   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Beck
I can see why Queen Aegea is really a good character. Just by using Maiden Aegea, I can already said that she is a strong free character.
Post #: 520
9/19/2013 12:36:43   
Cyberbeast10
Member

I still find Ice Orb to be bad because, even if you are consistently shielding, the fact of the matter is that shielding still costs and they are constantly being reduced, so I think the maximum potential for Ice Orb should be a little over a 2 ratio, simply because, unlike other moves, it requires set-up and a large pool of costs, you really can't ignore the shield costs, especially when you have to take into account how you need to replenish them.

Despite that, even if you don't take into account your cost for putting up the shield, you have to take into account the cost for putting them down. You're using up 10 costs and your shields, which makes Ice Orb less effective than a 2 ratio, like "Poison" and "Shatter" in the long run and for Ice, everything has to be taken into account in the long run.
AQW Epic  Post #: 521
9/19/2013 12:38:09   
DarkLore
Member

Hopefully alpha pirate will be returning today and with an evolution. Unless Nulagth wants a bunch of raging players mad he didn't keep his word about bringing him hack. Personally I caught mine last TLAPD, but still. would be bad because project omni ruined it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 522
9/19/2013 12:40:30   
The Jop
Member

Yarrr, Oversoul be needin' some life breathed into it. Even as much as a re-release of a character me be takin'.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 523
9/19/2013 12:52:45   
DeathGuard
Member

@Mega: Good luck with leveling, I will be training my Stone Assassin.

@Cyber:I agree with Beck, as an Ice user myself too, with Barbarian and Queen Glypsophila I use Snow Orb and Ice Orb. I use Snow Orb when I'm not close to kill my foe, I use Snow Orb when I know I can kill my foe. Ice is for passive people, you need patience to fight with such elemental characters. Even if it is slow, if you know how to use them you have an almost assured win.

Tips on using Ice characters:
1.) Measure your foe's energy; that way you know when he can attack, or must charge. This can help on choosing what cards you will play with. It is good to have OS wiki in an open tab when fighting a foe, so you know what cards he can play with.
2.) When equipping CC cards, make sure they won't be a dead weight on the deck. Be sure to equip if it will really be necessary.
3.)I recommend using variation of cards while equipping CC cards, e.g. if your character has 1 500 card but has 2 1k defense card, equipping 1-2 500 defense card may be lifesaver in some situations when you don't got enough energy to cast the 1k defense card.
4.)Charging until you get 5 energy per turn doesn't works sometimes, you can get to 14, and while you drawing cards and charging you will eventually get the 5 charge per turn without wasting turns.
5.) Enjoy the character you're using; don't hesitate when your hands aren't that good, keep playing at your best until you're beaten. Sometimes the hands you think are the worst are the ones that give you the victory in the last moment.

I understand you feel Ice isn't that good but you can't tell us that when you are only seeing it from one perspective.



_____________________________
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 524
9/19/2013 13:00:03   
The Jop
Member

@Death
What, ye get 5 charges per turn without using a turn chargin'? I be pretty sure ye have t' click on the orb of the element ye were chargin' t' continue addin' charges per turn up t' five if ye interrupt it by bein' stunned or playin' cards.

Another tip be t' save a freeze in your hand fer when a character has just played all their cards so they will have t' charge once they be no longer stunned, effectively wasting 3 of their turns and a lot of their energy past the cap.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 9/19/2013 13:04:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 525
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