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Balanced skill suggestion

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11/19/2018 23:58:33   
Cataleptic
Member

Make assimilation drain 80% of the opponents energy without any conversion to the user .

Level 1: 35%
Level 2: 40%
Level 3: 45%
Level 4: 50%
Level 5: 55%
Level 6: 60%
Level 7: 65%
Level 8: 70%
Level 9: 75%
Level 10: 80%

< Message edited by Cataleptic -- 11/20/2018 0:03:18 >
Post #: 1
11/20/2018 3:05:47   
Mother1
Member

Not supported

Being able to drain up to 80% of the opponent's energy even without the energy conversation back to the user is vastly OP and is even stronger than both EMP and energy Parasite max effect. this would seriously break the game and OP Tech mage in the draining area. Assimilation is fine as it is now.
Epic  Post #: 2
11/20/2018 3:49:38   
Cataleptic
Member

Then why are we keeping atom smasher the way it is now if this will 'seriously break the game'?
Post #: 3
11/21/2018 16:08:09   
Mother1
Member

@ Cataleptic

Because Atom Smasher doesn't drain by a percent of the opponent's energy pool but rather a percent of your weapon damage there is a difference. At max atom smasher drains 90% of the total weapon or primary damage meaning if I have 500 damage then I can drain up to 450 energy.

Now if I had this assimilation you mentioned this drain would destroy high energy builds worse than energy parasite because lets say I have 1000 energy. you used this assimilation on me and boom I lose somewhere between 350 to 800 energy depending on how high you have your skill powered, and not only this you don't even have to spend energy on this unlike Atom Smasher which has an energy cost.

High energy builds as well as legendary bosses would get wreaked by this which is why I am calling OP.
Epic  Post #: 4
11/21/2018 21:09:13   
Xendran
Member

@Mother1: Remember that smasher scales. At 32 strength, it sits at 106%.
(Not saying that this is justification for this super busted version of assimilate to exist though).
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
11/25/2018 5:17:09   
Cataleptic
Member

@Mother 1

It wouldn't be broken if it the skill was dependent on how much primary damage you have, the same way atom smasher is working right now. e.g: At 457 primary damage (45 strength, your typical focus 5 build, legendary ranks not included) this skill would take 365 mana at max power. It takes 159 mana at level 1, does that seem broken to you? I believe this is the way atom smasher should've been scaled, instead of perpetuating it to be broken and keeping it that way.


The skill wouldn't be cost-free if it were to be implemented this way. I wouldn't be too sure of how much the cost would be, but I think it should be around how much atom smasher costs. Also, if you don't have enough energy to use the skill, I suggest that it be taken from battery instead. e.g: Battery gives 330 mana, say the skill costed 60 mana at lvl 1, I'd be able to apply the skill, but when I use battery I only gain back 270 mana. This wouldn't be broken. Energy replenishing skills take/give back 270 mana, anyway (static charge, static grenade, static smash), except for parasite, which could also use a buff. This would actually bring back other builds that players don't use, especially for tech mage users, and given its name, the class needs to be made a little more technical like this.


quote:

High energy builds as well as legendary bosses would get wreaked by this which is why I am calling OP.

How does this give a negative impact to killing bosses? The only way to kill legendary bosses is to get their energy to 0, which TLM and BM do for you perfectly. Those are also the only two classes that you can defeat bosses with, so this would actually help tech mage in killing bosses, people then wouldn't need to feel they have to be either one of those classes when another one that has opened up which could possibly defeat them.

Disclaimer:
quote:

Also, if you don't have enough energy to use the skill, I suggest that it be taken from battery instead. E.g: Battery gives 330 mana, say the skill costed 60 mana at lvl 1, I'd be able to apply the skill, but when I use battery I only gain back 270 mana

This effect does not have to happen, its just an alternate suggestion to further help the class.

< Message edited by Cataleptic -- 11/25/2018 6:44:49 >
Post #: 6
11/25/2018 12:01:29   
Mother1
Member

@ Cataleptic
Look at your original post. Nowhere in it does me mention anything about the skill being tied to primary damage.

quote:

Make assimilation drain 80% of the opponents energy without any conversion to the user .


Your suggestion for balance literally states the skill should drain a percent of the opponent's energy and nothing as I pointed out about it draining based off of primary damage like Atom smasher. It was also why Xendran mention this version of Assimilation being busted.

If you want it to drain based off of primary damage then you should have the OP reflex that suggestion cause otherwise you will have other people feeling this skill is busted or OP while spreading mass confusion about your idea.

quote:

How does this give a negative impact to killing bosses? The only way to kill legendary bosses is to get their energy to 0, which TLM and BM do for you perfectly. Those are also the only two classes that you can defeat bosses with, so this would actually help tech mage in killing bosses, people then wouldn't need to feel they have to be either one of those classes when another one that has opened up which could possibly defeat them.


TM can't beat legendary bosses (Insert Mark Hamil joker laugh here) TM can and has beaten legendary bosses in fact the very first boss the legendary titan was beaten for the first time by a player using a TM build. I myself have beaten the second legendary boss M4tr1x using a TM build, as well as a few other using TM as well. The only reason people choose to use TLM over TM when battling these bosses is because TLM has longer lasting as well as stronger shields than TM which means the battle is far easier as a TLM than a TM. But these doesn't mean they can't beat the bosses.

Also TM can beat more legendary bosses than BM can due to the simple fact that they can sustain their energy far better than BM can when the end game comes. It isn't just about draining the energy down to 0 it is about being able to sustain your energy long enough to heal loop as well as shield yourself while in this end game and Blood mage once the opponent's energy is down to 0 has a massively hard time doing this. Especially if the bosses have high damage duo attacks with their weapons and sidearm (Legendary titan, Dage, Nightwraith for example all have this) In fact the only reason BM can at all beat any legendary boss is because some of them are single damage end game bosses meaning you can make a build that goes against their end game damage which means you can remove the need to shield and just focus on healing which is easy if the boss has reroute.

Also most TLM don't bother to use atom smasher due to it being locked to a primary weapon and even if this wasn't the case it costs energy which is something you can't afford to waste when battling legendary bosses because being short 1 energy can make or break you in these fights.

But as for this change being something that would help TM fight legendary bosses all I have to say is Don't you believe it. and here is why

Beating legendary bosses require you to be able to heal loop and shield look which requires a decent about of energy. TLM catches a break in this area because they only need energy for one shield and healing but TM needs their energy for using both shields and healing. Battery back while at the max does give back 333 energy, is nowhere near enough to heal and shield look successfully to survive. Assimilation extra amount of energy (as it is now) comes in handy just like TLM Frenzy. Now if you were to take away the energy regain to buff the drain and add an energy cost to do said drain this will make fighting those bosses even harder due to the lost of the extra energy source.

If you can't heal and shield loop you are dead, so for the sake of these bosses TM needs their extra energy source to be able to beat these bosses. Otherwise only TLM will be able to beat all the bosses and TM will lose the ability to beat some of the bosses that BM can't.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 11/25/2018 12:03:33 >
Epic  Post #: 7
11/25/2018 21:32:53   
Cataleptic
Member

@Mother1
quote:

Look at your original post. Nowhere in it does me mention anything about the skill being tied to primary damage.

Assimilation is a primary skill for tech mage, how can you not deduce that from what I said?

quote:

Your suggestion for balance literally states the skill should drain a percent of the opponent's energy and nothing as I pointed out about it draining based off of primary damage like Atom smasher. It was also why Xendran mention this version of Assimilation being busted.

No, no it doesn't. That's why I suggested that it wouldn't be broken if it based on primary damage like atom smasher. Also, Xendran disagreed with how I initially put it, whether he agrees with the way its been restated now, I have no clue of.

quote:

If you want it to drain based off of primary damage then you should have the OP reflex that suggestion cause otherwise you will have other people feeling this skill is busted or OP while spreading mass confusion about your idea.

I'm not understanding what you mean with the 1st few words of this. But to answer the end of it is, this skill wouldn't be busted if it was being based off of primary damage, and what is there to be confused about? I literally explained it to you on how it would work.

quote:

TM can't beat legendary bosses (Insert Mark Hamil joker laugh here) TM can and has beaten legendary bosses in fact the very first boss the legendary titan was beaten for the first time by a player using a TM build. I myself have beaten the second legendary boss M4tr1x using a TM build, as well as a few other using TM as well. The only reason people choose to use TLM over TM when battling these bosses is because TLM has longer lasting as well as stronger shields than TM which means the battle is far easier as a TLM than a TM. But these doesn't mean they can't beat the bosses.


Inert [J. Jonah Jameson laugh from spiderman on here]. Yeah, tech mage can't beat any legendary bosses who's damage isn't purely one based. That's why you hardly see anyone using tech mage for bosses. Tech mage can only beat 3 legendary bosses and that's because they are extremely weak compared to the rest of them. The end if your sentence proves my point. This is why tech mages need a buff to keep up with the rest of 3 bosses, not 3 scraps that can be beaten at even somewhere in the 30's.


quote:

Also TM can beat more legendary bosses than BM can due to the simple fact that they can sustain their energy far better than BM can when the end game comes. It isn't just about draining the energy down to 0 it is about being able to sustain your energy long enough to heal loop as well as shield yourself while in this end game and Blood mage once the opponent's energy is down to 0 has a massively hard time doing this. Especially if the bosses have high damage duo attacks with their weapons and sidearm (Legendary titan, Dage, Nightwraith for example all have this) In fact the only reason BM can at all beat any legendary boss is because some of them are single damage end game bosses meaning you can make a build that goes against their end game damage which means you can remove the need to shield and just focus on healing which is easy if the boss has reroute.


Tech mages can only beat 3 bosses (M4TR1X, god of war, and shoggoth). Those are the 3 that I know they can beat. Everyone else is pretty impossible to beat as Tech Mage. Blood mages can 4 defeat bosses (M4TR1X, god of war, Slayer, Shoggoth), so they have more over tech mages. Again, you have prove my point as to why tech mage is also surviving matches to some bosses for long as they. You have a better chance killing legendary bosses as BM than you do as tech mage, and if you want to go to the technical route about it, then switch to tactical mercenary, because we both know that's the only class that kills every legendary boss in the game.

Beating legendary bosses require you to be able to heal loop and shield look which requires a decent about of energy. TLM catches a break in this area because they only need energy for one shield and healing but TM needs their energy for using both shields and healing. Battery back while at the max does give back 333 energy, is nowhere near enough to heal and shield look successfully to survive. Assimilation extra amount of energy (as it is now) comes in handy just like TLM Frenzy. Now if you were to take away the energy regain to buff the drain and add an energy cost to do said drain this will make fighting those bosses even harder due to the lost of the extra energy source.

I'm confused, didn't you just say say tech mages can sustain their energy better than blood mages? And if this is going to look busted, then isn't this going to further help tech mages sustain their energy more than blood mages would be able to?. Tech mages would still be able to heal loop throughout the match. Your argument is that, if this costed energy, tech mages wouldn't be able to replenish their energy well, tech mage would still be able to replenish their energy. Atom smasher on tactical mercenary cost energy but no one uses that for bosses, and even if they did it wouldn't be an issue with their energy replenishing.


Blood mage can beat the bosses that tech mage can.



Mother1, tell me this, do you think tactical mercenary is balanced?




< Message edited by Cataleptic -- 11/25/2018 21:43:01 >
Post #: 8
11/28/2018 1:08:56   
InFlamed Fury
Member

I'm sorry Cataleptic, but in the original message it states the following.

quote:

Make assimilation drain 80% of the opponents energy without any conversion to the user .


With the wording you have used, it comes across as assimilation draining 80% of the opponent's total energy, no where do you mention that it is linked to primary weapon damage or any other factors.
All Mother1 was doing was taking the information given and responding.

In regards to what you were trying to say, i don't think assimilation needs a rework, it isn't OP or UP, it just does exactly what it needs to do and reworking it would basically be giving TM an atom smasher ability which i don't think TM needs right now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
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