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=ED= Tactical Mercenary Balance Thread

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8/6/2018 19:16:02   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 Tactical Mercenary Balance Discussion Thread

This is where you can discuss everything balance related to the Tactical Mercenary class.
Got a skill that doesn't fit? Perhaps a combo that proves to be too strong and abusable. Discuss it here with everyone!

A few guidelines before we start:
  • All AE Forum rules are still in effect.
  • No comparisons between other classes. You can use certain facts to build your case on, but please do not turn this into a 'CH vs X' thread.
  • Everyone's opinions are just that. Opinions. If you don't agree, that's fine. But, there is no need for rule breaking behaviour.
  • Constructive Criticism is meant to improve something, not rant, whine and complain to be heard. If you are going to criticise, do so with the intent to give help, not tear down.



    < Message edited by Battle Elf -- 8/6/2018 23:45:13 >
    • AQW Epic  Post #: 1
    8/6/2018 19:34:15   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Tactical is pretty solid right now. I feel like Frenzy is a bit too good right now and needs some changes with the damage/health/energy scaling

    Also with surgical, man that is strong............
    AQW Epic  Post #: 2
    8/7/2018 13:28:37   
    NDB
    Member

    		Tactical Mercenary has always been unique in that it lacks any burst damage or debuff. Now with battles becoming faster and damage is higher, poison is also going a bit out of style. Therefore, I do think that a reasonably strong Surgical is logical to give the class some fire power.

    But with that being said...

    I think that the last update did bring it up a tad bit too much, especially compared its Super Charge counterpart. Before this update, both skills had the same base damage, with Super Charge being a tiny hair stronger at Level 40 due to level scaling (~2.6 damage). However, Super Charge scaled/s with 1 damage per 0.5 Tech whereas Surgical was 1 damage every 0.4 Tech. So even before this update, with 120 Tech, Surgical would be about 100 damage stronger than Super Charge, which in most cases more than makes up for Super Charge's 20% defense ignore. Now with the recent update, Surgical scales with 1 damage every 0.3 Tech, making it yet another 100 damage stronger at 120 Tech, which far makes up for the 10% defense ignore buff that Super Charge got. All the while, Surgical maintains the massively useful 50% Rage reduction effect and has no weapon requirement.

    I think that a better approach would have been to bring the scaling of Surgical to, perhaps, 1 damage per every 0.35 Tech. This would have made it 43 damage stronger, rather than 100 damage stronger, at 120 Tech, which is roughly on par with the 10% extra defense ignore that Super Charge got against the average 5-focus build. Even then, I don't think it would hurt to bring Super Charge down to 1 damage every 0.35 Tech. That would make the two skills the exact same in base damage if level scaling was also fixed to be the same, but with Surgical having the 50% Rage reduction effect and Super Charge having the 30% defense ignore effect. I know this is the Tactical Mercenary Thread, but it's hard to make a point without bringing in the Super Charge.

    On a different note, the issue with Frenzy, I think, stems from the buff to Primary scaling which inadvertently made the skill much more powerful than it previously was. Because it is now unblockable, it may make sense to take away the 10% defense ignore, but there are a lot of other simple fixes that could also work, though.

    On a different note, I think it may be a great idea to buff the Stun Grenade on Tactical Mercenary (but not Bounty Hunter), perhaps on par with Plasma Grenade or even quite a bit more. Stun Grenade is currently 20 damage weaker than Plasma grenade and scales at 1 damage every 0.44 Dex compared to 0.4 Tech, making it ~23 damage weaker at 100 Dex/Tech. Buffing Stun Grenade on Tactical Mercenary would be a step in the right direction for making the classes all have different skills and hopefully give the class a more viable Dexterity build. This is beneficial because, as it stands, Tactical Mercenary is really lacking in the caster build department compared to other classes, and Dexterity builds, in general, are arguably the most underpowered stat builds in the game in 1vs1 (which wasn't always the case).

    Oh yeah, and I know it's been said a few times already, but Atom Smasher should be unblockable.

    < Message edited by NDB -- 8/7/2018 18:15:16 >
    Epic  Post #: 3
    8/8/2018 22:22:51   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		In my opinion, toxic grenade is fine where it is, because once someone heals and the toxic grenade is out, the battle is extremely hard to win as the opponent.

    The damage was increased as a whole, but honestly it's not that big of an increase to make toxic grenade not viable.

    In fact, tech TLM is becoming a thing now, and if the str nef comes, we will see a new era of tech CH, the tech TM with the botanical hazard, surgical strike and toxic grenade. I'm not too excited about that.

    AQW Epic  Post #: 4
    8/14/2018 18:15:16   
    Grandma
    Member

    		I think TM should get Mark replaced with smoke screen
    Epic  Post #: 5
    8/14/2018 18:45:12   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		What are you talking about?
    AQW Epic  Post #: 6
    8/14/2018 18:49:19   
    Grandma
    Member

    		Giving TM smoke. I'd take out Field command or something and replace Mineral armor with Technician.

    Dunno why I was thinking TM had Mark of Blood
    Epic  Post #: 7
    8/14/2018 18:55:41   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		I don't think giving TLM smoke would be a good idea, weren't you here in Delta?
    AQW Epic  Post #: 8
    8/15/2018 18:25:49   
    Mother1
    Member

    		Lol lets make TLM back to the way it was back in delta AKA very OP once again. I remember the TLM days when they had smoke and those days (unless you were a CH back then) weren't fun if you didn't have good build plans.
    Epic  Post #: 9
    8/18/2018 16:53:37   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		TLM is kinda off the charts right now...

    would like to see a poison buff, maybe +15 at each level, but I don't know what else really because TLM is literally a poison, frenzy, battery, and surge class.

    Would say frenzy buff but we already nerfed that...
    thing is is that we buffed str and to compensate we nerfed frenzy.

    Now we nerfed str back to normal and kept frenzy the same.

    We need to rebuff frenzy to the 10% def ignore again if we aren't going to buff str... and maybe just in general tbh if we get other fixes to other classes that make them better.

    I'd like a double strike buff so tactical can have some damage (without having to get a risky strength build and then get Karthed), and a blood shield scaling buff.

    I think we need to change field commander to something useful to be honest with you, it's moreso just a placeholder skill.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/18/2018 22:19:53 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 10
    4/30/2019 15:54:25   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Since reroute is back, I feel like we should turn frenzy back to what it used to be.

    When passives were here, TLM was really good with the original frenzy.

    When passives got deleted, the new frenzy made TLM really good.

    Now, TLM has passives and the really good frenzy... and that's busted.

    Also, poison does 100% damage - and that should be changed for sure since it's unblockable.

    Make frenzy blockable again once it's changed back how it used to be. (High HP regen for energy cost)
    AQW Epic  Post #: 11
    4/30/2019 19:32:10   
    Foulman
    Member

    		Should TLM have a poison that conpletely outclasses the Hunters' Venom Strike?
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
    6/5/2019 19:05:26   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		TLM is a class which isn't that great classified by a lot of people (the ones who ditched it), but it's still decent with the botanical hazard.

    Why is this? Because Toxic grenade is really strong, and getting your opponent to heal with botanical hazard is key to making this build work.

    A couple of things I think that can be done to help fix the weird place TLM is in:
    1) Nerf Toxic grenade, a bit by the base damage. This will decrease the TLM reliability on this
    move, and in turn


    2) Buff Frenzy to where it does not cost energy to use this move (again). Even though poison is used, this move is bad now and this will help it climb back up. Having HP regeneration is nice, especially since it allows more HP for reroute. Keep it how it is elsewise.


    3) Mineral armor: I'm basically going to keep suggesting that these kind of passives should be the old flat values so strength builds and such will still have viability, because having more defense only because you have defense is strange, and I've always thought this.

    I think these are things that can be used to help TLM out, especially without the energy regen that it has, since it still has atom smash.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    6/9/2020 13:55:22   
    Katakuri
    Member

    		This does come under "balance"so I will post it here. Frenzy's stun rate was changed from 25% to 20% and it was not mentioned on the design notes. I went up to April 17th 2020 the day when frenzy got a 25% stun chance added. Arma confirmed this was changed 2 weeks ago but there was no mention on the Design notes.

    < Message edited by Katakuri -- 6/9/2020 14:07:58 >
    Epic  Post #: 14
    3/14/2021 13:05:51   
    Albus dumbledore
    Member

    		Tactical is not bad right now, but it still needs some fixes:

    1-remove the stun from Frenzy and put it on Adrenaline or Barbed Grande

    2-If the stun moved to the grande then

    a) the 25% base chance to crit move to adrenaline
    b) the 15% defense ignores move to frenzy

    3-Toxic grande deals 100% damage not 85% which gives TLM an option to be a strength class again.

    4-buff the adrenaline energy required at least 10-15 per level that if you add the 25% chance crit to it.

    5-Barbed grande from physical to energy.

    6-Reroute: stat required dexterity

    7-Crippling Strike is kinda weak, now most of the cores does better % such as buccaneer gun it does 1% defense ignore and 15% reduce for only 90 energy....for 85 energy you can get 20% defenses reduce and 50% reduce block chance like hunter's mark provide..... so buff the crippling strike little more because it cost a lot 310 at max level for 30% defense ignored.

    8- buff the energy shield at 100 support and no more extra stats, level 1 of energy shield gives 135, it indeed needs real buff.

    9-Frenzy regain energy and health, but the energy should not be as the same amount of health, tlm has already reroute so if the Frenzy gives half of the % of the hp would be good.

    10-TLM has no clear/explicit skill to take energy like other classes "emp-parasite-Assimilation....etc", so why not Adrenaline be something like:

    % rage gain and half of that % energy taken down from the enemy






    < Message edited by Albus dumbledore -- 3/14/2021 13:54:45 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 15
    3/14/2021 21:18:58   
    CactusChan
    Member

    		In response to the previous post:

    1, 2, 4, & 5. Definitely support moving the stun away from Frenzy. Frenzy is a great skill without the stun, and when it does stun it's straight-up busted. Giving Barbed Grenade a stun would transform it from an decent skill to a great one, and giving Adrenaline Rush a stun would transform it from a weak skill to a decent one. If the stun is moved to Barbed, I think moving the 25% crit chance to Adrenaline is fair with an additional 10 energy cost, but the 15% defense ignore should stay on Barbed. Also, I don't really see a reason to move Barbed Grenade's energy from P to E.

    3. Supported. With Barbed Grenade no longer improving with support, having a strong Toxic Grenade isn't as much as a problem, and I agree that it would help str TLM.

    6. Disagreed. The other TLM passive, Mineral Armor, already requires dex, and most TLM builds need tech anyway. The outlier might be str/supp TLM, but having fairly strong defense and resistance has proven effective on damage-heavy builds in the past.

    7. The energy cost for Crippling Strike is definitely too high for what it does at high levels. I think +20 per level for a max of 265 would be fine. While it is a little weak compared to cores, I don't really think that's a fair comparison since the vast majority of cores are not reusable and, more importantly, can be used by any class.

    8. I've suggested in the past that BH's Energy Shield be +1 Energy point per 0.6 from 0.4, so I think it's only fair to buff TLM's slightly from +1 per 0.7 to +1 per 0.6.

    9. As stated above, I think Frenzy is fine as is. The consistent, user-controlled energy gain from Frenzy paired with the variable, opponent-controlled energy gain from Reroute makes for a unique dynamic that results in plenty of energy regenerated for the user.

    10. TLM not having any energy drain is certainly an issue. Given the suggested changes above, I honestly think the best course of action is to replace Field Commander with Atom Smasher. No one uses Field Commander in any serious capacity, so I doubt it would be missed.
    Epic  Post #: 16
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