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5/6/2010 16:23:16   
Malfestus
Member

Note for Mods: This isn't about any specific thread deletion, this is a forum suggestion.

Currently players have to be very careful with what they say in the General Discussion Forum, because suggestions get deleted and even non-suggestions sometimes get deleted if they resemble suggestions. Question threads get locked often without allowing follow up questions, and really all kinds of things really get posts deleted or locked on a hair trigger. This leaves players with no place to go speak freely about the game and just shoot the breeze. A Free Chat Forum could allow players to just talk about the game freely, leaving open forum questions, having polls, inviting everyone to house parties, and allow players to show their creativity with games like "Create your Own Fantasy Class". Pretty much everyone I've talked to is unhappy with the limitations on free speech and I think this would really make a lot of people happy and get them out of the general forum when they can't post two comments without tripping over the mod hammer.


_____________________________

Woe unto ye who value free speech.
Post #: 1
5/6/2010 16:32:22   
  Scakk
Beyond


 As for some of what you said in the first post I will repost what I stated in your last thread.

quote:


At this time the Game Staff working on AQWorlds are only accepting art suggestions. Occassionally they will want other types of suggestions and will make mention of this in the Design Notes. Outside of those times all other suggestion thread are and will continue to be deleted as they are not needed or requested by the AQWorlds Game Staff at this time.


Feedback is always and will always be welcome to given. The reason some of the topics are locked or deleted as they way they are done are nothing but people complaining or whining with not suggestions on ways to possibly help or fix the issue they see. If the thread offering feedback is done calmly and constructively it will be allowed to remain until such time as it is resolved or the thread turns into one of whining or complaining.






As for the other parts I shall touch on them as I go.

Questions pertainting to the game itself are to be asked in the AQW Q&A Forum as that is the Question and Answer Forum. If it is a question that could be viewed as a discussion type question ( Example: "What are you thoughts on the Chaos Lords up to now?" ) would be done in the AQW GD Forum as that would be a discussion topic.

Polls are no longer done by players on the forums. As it is poll are only done by forum staff on as needed basis.

As for the "house party" part you mentioned there is the Let's Party thread in the AQW GD for that exact purpose.

Games as you mentioned are done in the UCaG Forum , following the rules there , as that would be seen as a "forum game" and as such belong there and not in the AQW Forum.

And as for a "Free Chat Forum" as you suggested will nto happen as there will always be rules for a forum that is created on the BattleOn Forums. If you wish to talk freely amongst yourself you can use PMs , an online messenger service , IRC or another means that is off the forums.
AQW  Post #: 2
5/6/2010 16:35:21   
Malfestus
Member

I already knew all this, well except the Let's Party thread, that's why I suggested a place where players can post more freely. It would be a rather silly suggestion otherwise, wouldn't it? The posting restrictions on the General Discussion forum are downright draconian.

I'm not asking for a no rules zone, I'm suggestion a forum where players can post more freely, that's all. They would still be moderated, no off site links trolling flaming harassment smut profanity or majorly off topic discussions of course (Typical Forum rules), but what I'm suggesting is a place where players can talk freely about the game and post more freely about things pertaining to the game.

Maybe I articulated myself poorly in the OP. I hope this clarifies what I'm suggesting for the forums.

< Message edited by Malfestus -- 5/6/2010 16:42:41 >
Post #: 3
5/6/2010 17:02:09   
Vivi
Outsmarting Bugs


 You're already capable of posting pretty freely, but you need to do so in the correct places. For example, questions get locked or deleted in the General Discussion forum because we have another place to ask questions (the Q&A forum). If we stopped locking/deleting question threads in AQW GD and just let them run their course all the time, what would be the point of having a Q&A forum in the first place? For suggestions it's even more important that they be posted in the correct place, because when the staff go looking for suggestions they are going to check that place and will probably miss any suggestion posts in AQW GD.

It's important to note that AQW GD is a "discussion" forum, its purpose is to allow players to discuss the game and the corollary of this is that a thread's topic has to be discussable. If there's nothing to discuss then the thread does not belong in the discussion forum. "Create a Fantasy Class" threads would probably fit into the Unofficial Contests and Games forum, suggestions need to be posted in the appropriate place (or if there isn't a place for them you can hold onto them for now) and "shooting the breeze" is likely best suited for the off-topic chat channel #yulgarsinn on IRC.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
5/6/2010 17:02:20   
Kain
Chaos!


 I don't get what you mean. I saw great threads/posts in the past (and in the present) that work great with the current rules. The AQW rules are all necessary to the game, and players are free to talk about anything about the game, except obviously for hacks and bug abuses. I don't see how the forum could be improved in that aspect, so if you could say what exactly is being a problem, it would be easier to be discussed about. If you're complaining about the moderation, I believe that was addressed in your other thread.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 5
5/6/2010 17:20:49   
Malfestus
Member

I would love to provide examples of what I'm talking about, I actually had two typed just now but deleted them because I know the moment I gave them the thread would get deleted.

I've seen a lot of good threads go down while I was responding to them, some of them deleted on what to me seemed sheer technicalities or just pure censorship, some of which insofar as I can tell having read the forum rules several times required an extremely specific and somewhat distorted interpretation of the post to qualify as violating any of them. You don't see the ones that get deleted precisely because they get deleted, so of course until you've been responding to one or had one of your own deleted everything's going to look fine.

Now all I'm suggesting is a Forum where players can post more freely, without the countless convoluted and sometimes seemingly arbitrary restrictions of the General Discussion forum.

Post #: 6
5/10/2010 15:24:01   
Earendl
Member

AQW GGD surely is quite restricted. That is necessarily not a bad thing. Compared to older boards that I used to visit it's more informative in nature. If I wish to discuss about something, I usually find a suitable topic in first glance. Then again, if there isn't interesting topic available, I don't feel compelled to create one. That's the downside of this more organized board. I sit, open up "new post", write few words and press "cancel" because I do not wish to see my post deleted. Then I wait, and perhaps somebody else has the courage to start the topic that I had in mind. But that probably tells more about me than AQW boards...

Creativity and imagination run rampant alongside bad apples (spam) on older boards. Perhaps AE team needs a short break from outside influences, and this age of information is their way of telling us to wait, hold on to our ideas and refine them before we hit "new post" button?
AQ AQW  Post #: 7
5/10/2010 17:35:18   
Ganden
Member

It sounds like what you're asking for, to me, is essentially an expanded GD board that overlaps with a couple other boards. The problem with that is that the forum divisions help organize topics--So, to use the example, if you wanted to play a forum game and exercise your creativity, you would go to UCaG. The way the forums and rules are set up, they encourage traveling to multiple boards, not just hanging around on one. Even GDs, which are about as catch-all as forums get outside of OOC, have a specific purpose; to facilitate discussion of the game they are for. Suggestions have their own forum so they can be easily sorted through by the staff when they want them; discussion of suggestions isn't allowed because it tends to turn into petitioning. Easily answered question go in Q&A primarily so they can be answered efficiently and not clog up the GD board. Complaining and whining aren't allowed because they are both unhelpful and annoying; constructive criticism is welcomed and encouraged, so long as it is just that--Constructive. Saying something is a problem is pointless--Saying something is a problem and why is on the right track, and providing both of those and an idea of how the problem could be best fixed is well on the way to becoming a good topic. Even then, though, topics can get locked or deleted--If the thread degenerates into complaining and whining from other posters. While that is unfortunate, there are times when a thread really isn't salvageable, even if the OP is good and had a lot of potential.

Other than that, as Phoenixfire said, general chatter should really go in things like IRC. I might throw in the OOC forum, but even that is less chatter and more just discussion on non-AE topics.

-Tolan

_____________________________

We have enough people who tell it like it is;
we need more people who tell it like it should be.
--My motto for life.
MQ  Post #: 8
5/11/2010 8:01:29   
The Braken Bard
Member

quote:

Pretty much everyone I've talked to is unhappy with the limitations on free speech and I think this would really make a lot of people happy and get them out of the general forum when they can't post two comments without tripping over the mod hammer.

I think this really depends on who you have talked to. If the people you've talked to have had frequent brushes with the law (or Mods and AK's in this case) then what they say is immediately very biased (there's always bias, of course, but there is such thing as having a little and a lot of bias).

I'd say if you are going to ask people around, it would be better to get a more varied sample space by picking random forumites in the AQW Community, and then PM'ing them and asking for their opinion on the matter. I think I can understand what he's going on about though; MMO games generally tend to have a more spread out forum board. Here, it is very much limited as the AQW forum shares boards with AE's other games and EpicDuel, which is another MMO.
AQ MQ  Post #: 9
5/11/2010 18:43:53   
Circe
Stand Back


 There are no limitations on free speech on the forums. Free speech does not exist at all. These forums are privately held by an independent corporation and as such, we place whatever limitations on behavior we see fit.

As to the bulk of your suggestion, General Discussion forums exist to permit discussion regarding each individual game. Each forum has the same basic rules regarding participation - keep it clean, keep it on topic and keep it friendly. Our primary objective as staff members is to maintain an open and welcoming atmosphere for the playing community, and the needs of the many overrule any individual desires of the few. A desire to exercise free speech is limited because our obligation is to protect the masses. That is why the GDs are controlled as they are, though much less limited than some of the other forums you may encounter.

While I appreciate your suggestion and welcome any feedback as to the structure and administration of the forums, there is no need - nor any place - for an unmoderated area of the forums.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
9/3/2010 11:53:10   
dominana
Member
 

 im new to the aqww forum and im not exactly sure wat it is about. in normal forums there would be a chat box were everyone can chat to eachother but i cant find one. and i try and post things but the mods just keep deleteing them so can someone please help me
Post #: 11
9/3/2010 12:13:06   
Earendl
Member

Have you already checked stickied threads at the top of AQW GGD board? They're not there for decorative purposes, they give you tips of how to write and behave. Universal rules can be found there, too.
AQ AQW  Post #: 12
9/5/2010 3:56:58   
Leumas Dragonsword
Member

quote:

Question threads get locked often without allowing follow up questions, and really all kinds of things really get posts deleted or locked on a hair trigger. This leaves players with no place to go speak freely about the game and just shoot the breeze. A Free Chat Forum could allow players to just talk about the game freely, leaving open forum questions, having polls, inviting everyone to house parties, and allow players to show their creativity with games like "Create your Own Fantasy Class".


quote:

I've seen a lot of good threads go down while I was responding to them, some of them deleted on what to me seemed sheer technicalities or just pure censorship, some of which insofar as I can tell having read the forum rules several times required an extremely specific and somewhat distorted interpretation of the post to qualify as violating any of them. You don't see the ones that get deleted precisely because they get deleted, so of course until you've been responding to one or had one of your own deleted everything's going to look fine.


I would just like to clear up some misunderstandings,

This is in reference to the first quote. You say "Question threads get locked often without allowing follow up questions,...", there is a reason for this. The ArchKnights that moderate the AQW Q&A Board only do this because we encourage for the Original Poster to start a new thread if they have a separate question. Also, we only Lock threads that have either a lock request from the OP or when we are certain that no other information pertaining to the question can be posted.

Regarding the second quote, there is a reason for this also. First of all, you say 'I've seen a lot of good threads go down while I was responding to them,...", that is your opinion, which you are entitled to. Your view on whether the thread is 'good' or not may differ from the ArchKnights that moderate the AQW GD. And it is up to them to make the decision on whether a thread is 'good' or not. Secondly, you say "some of which insofar as I can tell having read the forum rules several times required an extremely specific and somewhat distorted interpretation of the post to qualify as violating any of them....", I would like to think this is not the case. What I believe is happening is that the ArchKnights of the AQW GD are deleting threads early, to prevent possible flaming/trolling/spamming. This means that although the original thread may have been a 'good' one, it would most likely spark some sort of rule breaking.

I hope I have helped just to clarify a couple of things. =)
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 13
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