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Is Dex a wasted stat?

 
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3/30/2011 23:48:20   
Shadronica
Member

I would like to have some intellectual thoughts on dex.

Is dex a waste in this game now? I mean does it help in any way against strength or 5 focus Bounty Hunters or strength Mercenaries? Can you have too much dex or too little anymore?

Please don't answer with a flippant answer I would like intelligent responses.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/30/2011 23:53:24   
PivotalDisorder
Member

It gives defence, which in turn reduces physical damage.
Post #: 2
3/30/2011 23:56:16   
TankMage
Member

Dex is an incredibly useful skill still. Conidering it determines your blocks and increases your defense although i do think tech is abit wasted.

Edit: Having a higher chance of blocks is heaven these days against strength Mercs / Bounties. I love blocking their attacks just to put it to them >:D.

So overall in this stage of the game dexterity is pretty much vital to even compete. But will probably become less useful when strength builds get nerfed.

< Message edited by ED_TankMage -- 3/30/2011 23:59:19 >


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AQ Epic  Post #: 3
3/31/2011 0:16:37   
Shadronica
Member

I am running an experiment on a high dex mage build. My first two encounters were against Bounty Hunters which I lost very easily.

Posting the build here if anyone wants to experiment along with me that is familiar on how to use a mage build.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8655/highdexbuild.png


Naturally if I continue to keep getting smashed I will discontinue.

Maybe I am the only one who thinks up craziness like this but its more for the curiosity.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/31/2011 0:16:48   
Shocka
Member

I love having Dex so it makes my minimum defense 22, 24, 25, 27, or 29. It has to be those numbers . Plus making people call you "noob lucky block nub hacker" is also entertaining
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
3/31/2011 0:32:04   
TankMage
Member

@Shad, Try taking 21 points off dexterity it'll still give you 35 - 42 defense. Use those 21 points on support. Take 1 point off technician and add it to Field medic. Try that and see how your build goes.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
3/31/2011 0:40:52   
Dax
Remember The Name


I certainly don't believe dexterity is a wasted stat. The problem is, dexterity does not do much to improve offensive skills. It improves overload, supercharge and technician for mages. While I like using overload and supercharge in certain circumstances their energy cost makes them hard to justify using as the centerpiece of a level cap build. Technician requires a turn to use but does improve bot damage somewhat.

For bounties multishot and stun improve with dexterity. While stun has its uses, it is only an augment, not a centerpiece of a build. However as many of you doubtless noticed, I used a very effective bounty build with 84 dexterity for a long time. However, that build also utilized 84 strength. The strength provided the damage, the dexterity coupled with HP improved my survival time in order to allow me to absorb crits and continue to inflict damage - usually culminating in a 4th turn massacre.

Mercenaries have no skills that improve with dexterity. I see merit in dexterity based mercenary builds but they MUST have another stat trained high enough to inflict high damage. Unforunately energy spamming, 5 focus mercenaries tend to outhit the dexterity based mercenaries. Because the 5 focus tech merc can now have 90+ tech, the 5 focus bounty build is now annihilated because bounties MUST train at least 84 dex to be relevant.

I can agree however that dexterity is becoming less relevant as time progresses. The problem is the trendy builds end battles in 2-4 moves. (most notably str merc, but also support merc and str bh) The chance of getting blocked at least once in 1-3 moves is far less then the chance of being blocked at least once in 4-9 moves. This problem is made worse by the fact that energy primary strength mercs can be blocked once and still win in 3 moves against higher dex builds.(block either maul or strike and zerker still connects = 100++ damage) The chance of blocking at least 1 move out of 2 against a strength merc assuming you have 84 dex and they have 66 is 34% if I did my math correctly. Chances are if they connect on both, you've lost. Even if you train your dexterity very high, say 93 vs 66 that percent is still only 42%. Moreover you're likely sacrificing tech to raise your dex thus raising the damage they inflict and minimizing your str and support thus limiting your damage to them. Furthermore many mercs simply train their dex higher - as high as 87 in some cases along with 100+ strength(yes it's possible with the number of stat points available)

Ultimately training dexterity is an interesting problem. You have to have it as a bh or mage or you're destroyed by str bh and physical primary str mercs. But if you train it your offense and resistence is compromised.

Dexterity still works somewhat, but I'll let you try it and see how successful you are. Since I don't play as much as I used to I don't mind sharing my better builds on forums. You're welcome to try the following dex mage if you wish: http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm82/Dax94/DaxMagev31.png Dexterity builds must have a source of offense to be relevant. The robot provides that here.

MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
3/31/2011 0:40:53   
Trizkial
Member

When you're reliant on blocking, and have very limited combating capabilities outside of defense and dex-progressive abilities then you've probably reached the point that your dexterity is more deleterious than beneficial. In contrast, too little leaves you open to physical attacks and at a less likelihood to block; but depending on where the points go from there the effect may be limited.

It isn't a waste, but it isn't always highly necessary nor useful - that's to say the points might be better spent elsewhere. Depends on the class, build (including armor type), and the person. I feel most comfortable with medium-high ranged.





< Message edited by Trizkial -- 3/31/2011 0:44:40 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/31/2011 0:40:56   
Shadronica
Member

Thanks ED_TankMage I will try your tweak when I am finished with this experiment. ;)

Dax's build looks good too. This should be interesting.

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 3/31/2011 0:52:00 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
3/31/2011 0:55:08   
Shadow Jester
Member

The build is strange

Try adding some Overload

Stunning at bounties and mercs are easy...Low support = More stuns

Your dex is so high you can make a level 4 overload strong lol
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/31/2011 1:13:33   
voidance
Member

I use a Mage tank Dex build sometimes, it consist of 120+ Dex which allows me to Block very very often, have high Technician boost to make my Res very high also, makes it where i rarely ever get blocked, and makes my mid lvl(6-8) Overload hit anywhere from 40-65 through any amount of Res. So yea i would consider it useful.
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
3/31/2011 1:24:51   
xxmirxx
Member
 

Dax that built you have was made 7 months ago by another mage. sorry I forgot his full name but starts with tom. he is mage that has over 7k wins in 2vs2 and 20k in 1vs1. so that built is copy of his.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
3/31/2011 1:30:27   
BlueKatz
Member

It's very annoying stat, which make it very useful

just take a look, a guy have 2 more defense than me, mean around 6 Dex, and make 3 blocks in battle. See? Useful
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
3/31/2011 1:30:39   
Shadronica
Member

Ok the first build was a 76.9% win ratio. Support mercenaries cleaned me up.

Trying this version. Took a bit of ED_TankMage's advice with my own tweak.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4204/highdexversion2.png

OK this build is at 76.9%. Support mercs and support mage just shred me to pieces.

Will continue this experiment over the next 24 hours.

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 3/31/2011 2:23:44 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/31/2011 2:46:48   
Ashari
Inconceivable!


Dax pretty much summarized it perfectly. All the stats have offensive capabilities, except for Dexterity. Strength affects Primaries, Guns and many skills. Support does the same for Auxiliary and big hitters like Artillery Strike and Malfunction. Even Tech has gotten to be an offensive stat through the Gamma Bot. Just look at Mercenaries with 80-90 Tech -- they are extremely effective now.

With so much stat inflation, every battle quickly becomes an offensive race, so a purely defensive skill really can't hold its own in a build.

Even so I don't see high Dex going anywhere. If you leave yourself with low dexterity you'll be stomped on by Mercenaries and Bounty Hunters, both very popular builds. I run all my builds now with a bare minimum of 26-32 Defense. Even that I consider on the low side with the offensive capabilities of Mercenaries and other Bounty Hunters. For me, right now my greatest threat are the Energy Strength Mercenaries.

Granted, I haven't been a Mage for a few months, but a 5 Focus BH works very similarly to Tech Mage. However BHs can compromise slightly on Dexterity thanks to Reflex Boost. I ran a slightly modified version of this build (basically the BH version of Dax's build), using 84 Dex instead of the usual 78 with slightly lower strength, with a pretty successful 87.4% win rate.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
3/31/2011 7:49:07   
T.600
Member

@Shadronica: I would take some points off energy and add to health resulting in 94 health (so crits dont destroy you and you still get +1). I don't think you need such a high assimilation, I know it won't be blocked often but a lvl 3 or 4 assim would work fine in 'destroying' merc or bh tactics. So you would have some spare points which could be used for malfunction lvl 4 (handy since you have all energy weapons), and maybe overload. I wish you luck, tell me how you go with these dexterity build :).
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/31/2011 8:18:22   
8x
Member

quote:

Ok the first build was a 76.9% win ratio. Support mercenaries cleaned me up.

Trying this version. Took a bit of ED_TankMage's advice with my own tweak.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4204/highdexversion2.png

OK this build is at 76.9%. Support mercs and support mage just shred me to pieces.

Will continue this experiment over the next 24 hours.

I would put all energy into hp, get lvl 8 DA, lvl 4 malf, lvl 5 overload, lvl 2 assimilation, lvl 7 reroute, then you have 2 skills left to put in to DM, heal or technician.

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Epic  Post #: 17
3/31/2011 13:36:34   
Tiago X
Member

@Shadronica: Try to use the Imperial ACP. Your founder armor covers the lack of resistance, and the remaing points to hp. All energy equipment=fail.
@Ashari: Nice looks.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/31/2011 13:43:16   
Cookielord12
Member

its stops the mercs and bounties a lot
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
3/31/2011 16:19:22   
Shadronica
Member

Thank you all for the suggestions I will try using them all today. Fingers crossed that I can get a nice dex mage build that perhaps others can use or adapt in a fairly hostile evironment of overpowered physical and energy builds.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
3/31/2011 16:46:57   
Dax
Remember The Name


Perhaps I should revisit my supercharge build utilizing dexterity. I'll run some tests...

@Mir: The Kringle Bot staff is the centerpiece of my build and was not available until 4 months ago. Furthermore armor buffs were not in place 7 months ago. Please don't make wild assertions with no supporting evidence.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/31/2011 16:48:24   
Lord GaGa
Member

I made a really good build with Energy Bunnyzoooka, Jester staff, founder armour and Beta sidearm.

^^ I had like level 7 stun, that will help your build alot.

Malf+Stun+Zooka
or
Malf+Stun+Zooka
or...
Stun+Zooka (rage)
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
3/31/2011 17:24:08   
Larcell
Member

A dex mage build with energy armor might work...

I've never played as a TM, so don't take my word on it.
Epic  Post #: 23
3/31/2011 18:29:58   
xxmirxx
Member
 

I was not talk about staff I was talk about built and skills. also I don't go aroubd sceen shot people builts I didn't even had forum account then. just remember people builts and they use different staff. Shadronica I use tank built. but I can't show you cause my laptop broken.
AQ Epic  Post #: 24
3/31/2011 18:39:45   
matteo234
Member

On topic: dex is a very useful stat when yours is higher than the average merc, as berserker nearly always seems to be blocked :) take that strength mercs!!
HOwever, for the builds, if you are going to use one in 2v2 with assimilate, for support mercs many have 49 energy, so a 6point assimilation works wonders to them. in 1v1, though, this build is probably quite useful though a few less on reroute and more on malf could work if wanted, although that is one of the most common starters ever in the game..

I personally use a completely different build ( http://www.epicduel.com/charpage.asp?id=watzomatzo ) but that uses completely different gear, and is focused more on being an all-round adaptable build (still in the making/being perfected) for 2v2. For 1v1 you can even use a strength build and do quite well with a mage, though i dont like the lack of adaptability to it, and therefore less tactical thinking.

< Message edited by matteo234 -- 3/31/2011 18:44:01 >


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AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 25
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