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No more features, we want Balance!

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5/30/2011 2:35:19   
Celestine
Constructive!


 As a PVP game, the most crucial aspect should be Balance. It seems as if that is last on the list for this game.
Weeks have gone by, and I've yet to seen an update focused mainly on balance. This is a problem.
Missions, new battle modes, the fame feature, etc. should have all gone live after attempts at balancing the game.

I understand that with such a small team pleasing everyone is unrealistic, but pleasing most should be a priority.
Threads overflow the EpicDuel section weekly, most of them about Balance, or problems derived from the lack of Balance.

EpicDuel can't grow if root issues are being ignored. Plans have been proposed, criticism has been given, yet the following week something is released that wasn't expected nor wanted.
I am very concerned for the game, if it continues to follow that path it is going.

Let me remind you all of a simpler time, also known as, Beta.
In this time period, nothing ran on money. There were friendly players, few exploited builds, unique builds, weapons lasted in power longer than a week, etc. Why?
Because there were no Enhancements, War Kills, Inventory Competitions, etc. Just to name a few completely unwanted features.

It actually took skill back then, instead of pure luck. It now seems content and features takes priority over balance.

It is completely understandable that balance can't be solved in a week, or even a month.
But it makes me angry and upset when features that serve no purpose are being released prior to attempts at balance.
This tells me two things. 1.) The developers don't care about balance. 2.) The player's voice does not matter.
I know that these two statements are completely false, but the recent updates have been misleading.

A PVP game revolves around....well PVP, not Fame, Inventory, War Kills, Missions, etc. If you wanted to make another AE game, then by all means do so.
But while this remains a PVP game, I expect balance to take priority over anything else.

Just a request, not a flame.

-Celestine
DF Epic  Post #: 1
5/30/2011 6:33:43   
MrBones
Member

game's fine

_____________________________

I am kind of a big deal, so don't act like you're not impressed.
- Abraham Lincoln
Epic  Post #: 2
5/30/2011 9:01:01   
Shadronica
Member

Another nice post. Thanks Celestine you have made a very valid point.

The game of PvP we had in early - mid Beta was wonderful before we had to have all the bells and whistles added which totally upset the games balance.

I enjoyed playing with my builds and strategy back then because I could almost totally predict exactly how my build would work and with a good variety of choices. The RNG luck factor was almost non existent.

I also agree that I have been gobsmacked with some of the releases and features that have been introduced.

Bring back the good homestyle PvP that is fast becoming a far distant memory.

Gamma players have no idea how good the game of PvP was without all the cookie cutter builds and interference by a rampant luck factor due to the games balance or lack of. I suppose if EpicDuel can rid itself of all the players from Alpha to Beta then nobody would be able to complain about how much the game has changed. Perhaps that is the agenda and I would suggest that they are doing a good job of it.

I admit that I was so looking forward to the 2v1 mode but when it was released I was kind of shell shocked as I understood that it would be a 2v1 NPC Boss battle. We have been told that the 2v1 boss battle is still to come but I would have preferred to wait rather than beat up lower level players who were confused since they had pressed the 2v2 button.

I don't know that balance is obtainable now with all the added enhancements. Abuse builds are so easy to exploit with so many stats stacked that it only takes 1 crit or 1 stun or 1 deflection or 1 - several blocks and the game is over.

I have never been able to fathom the new added skills that we got either. The Bounty Hunters Shadow arts is by far superior to the others. It is a passive but most deadly skill giving them not only a heap of deflections but the ability to be able to block at an alarming rate. Combine that with smoke and voila the most deadly breed in EpicDuel. I know that some of you might argue that point but truly if you cannot win with a nice fast Bounty Hunter in 1v1 or 2v1 then perhaps you should rethink what you are doing.
Mercenaries Blood Shield is impotent and Mages Assimilation is blocked approximately 80% of the time on a Bounty Hunter if not then more. Also Assimilation is the only one of the skills that requires a class specific primary and the game developers have not given them a choice of physical staffs to be able to do a reasonable build. These skills have not helped with the balance of the game.



< Message edited by Shadronica -- 5/30/2011 9:24:29 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
5/30/2011 9:07:17   
T.600
Member

I agree with this but last time the devs attempted to balance the game it just resulted in another money scam ( aux and gun enhancements). It is not fun to play now due to luck factors overpowering skill. Sometimes I feel embarassed when those mindless 5 focus gamma players just trash me with their beloved gamma bot.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/30/2011 9:34:17   
Hun Kingq
Member

When they introduced shadows arts and blood shield it tipped the scales towards mercs and bounties then when the mages where able to figure out what to do to get more blocks, came in the stat progression all because players wanted to abuse the stats to gain extra power to get on the leaderboard, for what, or just to be bullies. Stat progression was to help curtail the stat abusing but it did not happen, we have more stat abusers in every class then ever before. If you want to have high dex and tech for protection you get punished and they inflict greater damage, High strength I get the same damage with the side arm with low strength, Support is the most abused stat in the game, diminishing returns, don't see them.

Instead of messing with the stats they should have messes with the skills or equipment that is enhanced by those stats that way only those who have total stats above a certain amount are the only ones affected not the whole class. If one kid was acting up in school do you punish everyone in that class or school, no you just deal with the trouble maker.
Epic  Post #: 5
5/30/2011 9:41:00   
Cinderella
Always a Princess


 Balance is, unfortunately, dynamic. Honestly, Beta wasn't THAT balanced either- I remember during that time period if I EVER came up against a support mercenary, I knew I'd lost before I started. And blocks and stuns weren't a great deal less than they are now- almost every week there would be a new "suggestion" to "remove the LUCK factor because some noob blocked me and won" when blocks and crits were really the ONLY way to defeat a high-strength build. We are, however, discussing ways to help make the game more fair and fun for everyone.
Post #: 6
5/30/2011 9:44:41   
Angels Holocaust
Member

Don't get me wrong, beta was indeed balanced we had a freak build for each class. Support Merc, Heal loop Tech mage, and strength hunter
Post #: 7
5/30/2011 10:33:00   
xXx83xXx
Member

I remember seeing a mercenary with 95 hp and 100 support before the Dex requirement (oh, how many requirements can you give us!?) came along.
Oh, who do you think won?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
5/30/2011 10:35:04   
Fay Beeee
Member

wrong place sorry
my bad

< Message edited by Fay Beeee -- 5/30/2011 10:37:26 >

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 9
5/30/2011 10:36:57   
Tiago X
Member

quote:

This is a problem.
Missions, new battle modes, the fame feature, etc. should have all gone live after attempts at balancing the game.

Celestine, you do understand that people complained about boredom, and this was the Developers attempt to break the boredom.
However, while we enjoy (or not) the features above, I believe they are trying hard to get us some balance. ;]
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
5/30/2011 10:38:36   
Remorse
Member

I think beta gives off the asumption of balance as non variums stood a chance, now however this chance has drmatically fallen, and without luck no amount of skill can get most of non var victories.
Do you wanna know why, i think enhacements was a main prblem not because var had more stats over the non var but because they lead to build being to powerful (hard hitters) just think of the popular builds atm, str BH (very strong) str Merc, (anoying), Support mages (exepect crits) focus mercs (try outdamage their bot) and many more. Not only that but they cost player alot as well.

I think rather then blance the game should focus on making this game cheaper for the players, and if they slow the growth rate of power, balance should be fine. Also cheaper costs will lead to balnce becoming easyier to reach.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 5/30/2011 10:42:14 >
Epic  Post #: 11
5/30/2011 10:41:31   
Hun Kingq
Member

How about this for a new feature and prizes battle bike races across the plans and jousting competitions since the mage class are the only ones with big sticks I think we would win the jousting competition.
Epic  Post #: 12
5/30/2011 11:22:54   
Celestine
Constructive!


 @Tiago X
Yes, I understand that newer players expect more features and content than balance. (not referring to anyone)
Those features were a way to deflate boredom, but have they done much?

Fame only appeases to players who want to feel superior to all others. To be honest, it should not have it's on leader board. It's not PVP oriented at all.
Missions are neat, but they are just developing and mostly for lower level players. For me, they are just there to do. Nothing more, nothing less.
Juggernaut, I agree was fun but to an extent. Before this update, it was for players that liked to win against lower levels. Not even a challenge, more of a race to all-time.

Attempts at ceasing boredom are great, but if they are planned out right. These features weren't.

@Cinderella
Compared to Gamma, Beta was indeed balanced. Sure, there was your usual Heal Loop Mage, Support Merc, etc.
But the developers found a way around that. Requirements on skills.

That stopped exploited builds for a while, UNTIL weapons with ridiculous amounts of stats were released.
Enhancements proved to be the biggest problem, abusing builds could now be easily done.
Stat diminishing came, and to be honest, didn't do much.

If you really think about it, if we were all nerfed, were we nerfed?
Hunq Kingq provided a good example using a misbehaving kid.
If a certain build is causing a problem, why should the rest of us have to be affected?

Let me give you a rundown of Beta compared to Gamma:
1.) Unique Builds to Cookie Cutter Builds
2.) Strategy to Luck
3.) Variety of Powerful Weapons to Specific Powerful Weapons
4.) Competition driven on blood, sweat and tears to Competition driven on money (Brainwashing, War Kills, etc)
5.) Less expensive to More expensive
6.) Player could hold 70+ stats compare to 100+ stats
7.) More communication to Less communication

The list goes on but those are just a few I could think of at the top of my head.

-Celestine
DF Epic  Post #: 13
5/30/2011 12:00:37   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 we actully wanted item enchancments a lot lol
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
5/30/2011 12:05:46   
eragonshadeslayer67
Member

Balance doesn't generate revenue.

(and yes I hate item enhancements ........ ruined EVERYTHING)
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 15
5/30/2011 12:10:39   
Luna_moonraider
Member

^ true but they can find other ways to generate revenue like scaming people to buy houses and buy the golden card and also buying a $50 package to get some promo guns. so with or without balance they still genate revenue by all these so called scams.

Ehn on the aux and guns just spoiled the game made things worse for every1.

_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
5/30/2011 12:24:11   
Remorse
Member

@ celestine finaly someone who thinks enhacements was the cuase for all this the same way i do :), i still think however dealing with cost is a vital needed step in order to deal with balance prperly, and should be the main priaority. Then they can think of ways of lessoning the impact of the worst release in ED history Enhacements.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 5/30/2011 12:27:12 >
Epic  Post #: 17
5/30/2011 12:28:27   
BlueKatz
Member

Enhancement was never a good idea :(
i think we won't get balance update until they add more feature
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
5/30/2011 12:33:53   
Remorse
Member

thats the thing though wat can they do, they cant take enhacements back, they akready dug that hole.... twice. Im thinkin something that will weakin power in builds. Maybe a stringer diminishigng stats will to the trick, i dont know.
Epic  Post #: 19
5/30/2011 13:25:24   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 I feel more features are needed to broaden the player base.

The housing concept was a great feature because it did not impact the pvp aspect at all. I still support it. It wasn't a scam because the outline was drawn and no one was forced to feel, by adding housing, their game play will improve.

Fame feature, the structure of the this feature I don't approve of, but the concept of using social media to gain new players is commended

War Kills, was never a favorite of mine then or now. It is a out of place feature that does not belong in the game. If this was a feature used just for in-game competition and not involving factions or impacting faction battles, it would not be too bad. My theory, mass genocide without reason is pointless and disturbing. I am not sure why this was released.


The rarity boards are a mixed bag for me. It is a choice feature, but it sends the wrong message. The game should have some balance between paying and non-paying, this board is nothing more then proving who has paid more.


The above features that have been implemented, except for housing, are not one thinks of as fun. They have a point in revenue and expanding the game.


There are many features that could be implemented for fun factor, and hopefully the game puts more energy into that.

Balancing the game will always be a task. The aspect that is entertaining is that this ed world we compete upon is ever changing.

AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/30/2011 18:10:03   
frosty123
Member
 

 I dont think the fame featured was needed. What part do you see fame related to epicduel. You are supposed to have a epic duel. Is asking for fame having a epicduel? no i dont think so. THe fame leaderboard made everyone ask for fame. I have been scamed so much times by them saying. FAme and i wil fame you and they dont fame me. AS for balance, they are to much 45 builds. I understand that you cant completly remove a feature and i dont want the robot to be nerfed. I am tired of the variums getting all the good stuff. There is no non varium robot. All the kinds of balance people talk about are balance between classes, not even depending if they are non var or var. Almost all auxs are ether a varium or a rare above lv 32. Every new wepon is needed for varium. Holdiday weps. There are only one of two non-variums per holiday set. 75% weps are varium. There needs to be a stat cap on the stats. So the highest support you can have is 64 or sometthing excluding start modiferers.
Post #: 21
5/30/2011 18:56:03   
altimatum
Member
 

 enhances put a bad taste in my mouth.... too many stats, so much change in such a small amount of time.
Post #: 22
5/30/2011 20:05:10   
PumKing
Member

@ Celestine, must say very well done, many players who are good comunicators are becomeing more and more prevalent, everytime i see a post like this, I simply cant help but have to post my viament aggreement

The down side to this is that this HAS become a prevalent topic, so many people are becoming fed up with this game and this is hurting the game quite alot, one of the easiest, and in my oppinion scariest, is that a few months ago posts like this would be loaded with an extreme ammount of posts to say that the game is fine and that people like Celestine and myself should quit complaining and play the game, or simply leave. The fact that this has almost completely died out, as clearly seen from the fact that Dbag has only posted here once (so far) and quite a short post at that, should not only be a major warning sign to those who are even moderately familiar with the forums, but a major red-flag warning to the devs

_____________________________

Carpe Dium--grab a carp, slap him around XD
Epic  Post #: 23
5/30/2011 20:12:17   
edwardvulture
Member

@hun kingq assilimination was one of the best skills and there should be more.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 24
5/30/2011 20:19:14   
Waras
Member

Balance in the truest sense of the term... cannot exist. Unless, of course, they made each of our characters exactly the same. And then it would be all about real life luck. But that could be unbalanced, because some people would just beat the odds and win more than others. And then they could go to giving everyone ties, so that it really would be fair. Right, that would work.

But I digress. It can't be completely balanced. Even to have it as close as they do now is an incredible feat. There's always room for improvement, and I'm sure the team is registering these comments and trying the best they can to make it better, but we can't expect perfection. Some people would like equal PvP, others would prefer more ways of playing that don't necessarily require as much player to player balance (Like quests and plot).

I played Beta Evolution. I don't look at every number to determine who's unbalanced. ED's still just a baby. It requires updates in all areas. Good things come to those who wait. Balance will fluctuate, but the team will fight to keep it fair, just give them time.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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