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Epicduel Calculations

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6/16/2011 0:19:10   
DeathSpawn
Banned


 You ever wonder how a 24 support bounty crits a 154 support build? What about how a 33 varium merc's bunker never crits but a 28 non varium can crit every single time? How about how a 30 support str merc deflects your 154 rage aux then turns around and crits you with berzerker for 80 plus damage? Well you could refer to a certain players sticky which is incomplete in the Q&A section then put 2 and 2 together and say it's impossible for these things to happen. Also who is that player anyway? Did she input code into this game? No then why is a player saying how things are calculated? Anyone else here just pray to god that Titan or Nightwraith could post a guide to how these things occur so we can plan our battles more strategically? If so please discuss it here and maybe someone of import who actually made the game and isn't going off hearsay will see that the players really want to know these things. Over and over we come across threads ultimately asking how something is calculated well why not just post a very nice comprehensive guide with weight behind it :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
6/16/2011 0:24:01   
goldslayer1
Member

@death
about the lvl 28 always critting bunker.
IMO lower lvls have more chances of blocking, critting, and deflecting. just as they have more chances of going first.
it may be a bug. but as a str BH with 86 dex i noticed more lower lvls blocking one or twice when i smoked them.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/16/2011 0:30:51   
Angels Holocaust
Member

The calculations for this game isn't right. I have a feeling that the Devs are hiding something very important from us. For all we know Titan could be making up the stats.
Post #: 3
6/16/2011 0:44:11   
DeathSpawn
Banned


 Lmao good stuff Angel :) sick of there being no strategy involved anymore. It's all about randomly clicking stuff on the screen with no thought process whatsoever
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/16/2011 2:18:26   
Sinnedtragedy98
Member

quote:

Lmao good stuff Angel :) sick of there being no strategy involved anymore. It's all about randomly clicking stuff on the screen with no thought process whatsoever


There is a thought process when you're me...

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AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/16/2011 4:29:26   
Remorse
Member

^, thats good i thought for a second self lovers didnt think...
Epic  Post #: 6
6/16/2011 6:28:04   
Tiago X
Member

Oh well, it's just their luck ,buddy. You can't win them all.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
6/16/2011 9:20:41   
Cinderella
Always a Princess


 Titan has posted how the chance to crit is calculated. Basically, you have a base of 6% chance to crit, and your chance to crit can't go above a certain percentage. Your chance to crit is calculated by the difference between your support and your opponent's support. The chance to deflect is calculated similarly to the chance to block. It's therefore not impossible for someone with far less support than you to make a critical strike on you after deflecting you. It's highly unlikely, I'll admit, but not outside the realm of possibility.

Edit: thanks for posting the right stats- I WAS thinking of blocks, as it turns out!

< Message edited by Cinderella -- 6/16/2011 18:24:41 >
Post #: 8
6/16/2011 9:27:27   
8x
Member

quote:

Titan has posted how the chance to crit is calculated. Basically, you have a base of 15% chance to crit, and your chance to crit can't go above 45% or below 5% (the top end might be 50% now, I don't remember off the top of my head).
Isn't that for blocking?
Epic  Post #: 9
6/16/2011 10:08:49   
Remorse
Member

quote:

Titan has posted how the chance to crit is calculated. Basically, you have a base of 15% chance to crit, and your chance to crit can't go above 45% or below 5% (the top end might be 50% now, I don't remember off the top of my head). Your chance to crit is calculated by the difference between your support and your opponent's support. The chance to deflect is calculated similarly to the chance to block. It's therefore not impossible for someone with far less support than you to make a critical strike on you after deflecting you. It's highly unlikely, I'll admit, but not outside the realm of possibility.


:O omg, no wonder why crit is so messed up atm. it has base 15% :O. i remember last time i checked it was like 6%
Epic  Post #: 10
6/16/2011 10:12:12   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Titan has posted how the chance to crit is calculated. Basically, you have a base of 15% chance to crit, and your chance to crit can't go above 45% or below 5% (the top end might be 50% now, I don't remember off the top of my head). Your chance to crit is calculated by the difference between your support and your opponent's support. The chance to deflect is calculated similarly to the chance to block. It's therefore not impossible for someone with far less support than you to make a critical strike on you after deflecting you. It's highly unlikely, I'll admit, but not outside the realm of possibility.

cindy, are u sure thats for crits or blocks?
45% crit chance is just insane.
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
6/16/2011 10:22:04   
ajs777
Member

45% Crit chance O_o dang im so going to high support build.... but it makes sense, it seems like support tech mages like to crit way WAY to often...

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
6/16/2011 10:23:06   
He Who Lurks
Member

I recall the max chance to critical for basic skills was 13%, was it not?

Also, I remember an update that included revisions being done to support. A somewhat, vague statement was given. I believe it went something like this, "Support has been altered", or along those longs. Not enough information.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
6/16/2011 10:25:25   
ajs777
Member

^ bottom line, the game is rigged
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
6/16/2011 10:46:05   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!
quote:

Titan has posted how the chance to crit is calculated. Basically, you have a base of 15% chance to crit, and your chance to crit can't go above 45% or below 5% (the top end might be 50% now, I don't remember off the top of my head). Your chance to crit is calculated by the difference between your support and your opponent's support. The chance to deflect is calculated similarly to the chance to block. It's therefore not impossible for someone with far less support than you to make a critical strike on you after deflecting you. It's highly unlikely, I'll admit, but not outside the realm of possibility.


Don't skim any post made by a mod or Admin. Every sentence you skim over might just cause you to miss important info. The Max chance to crit isn't 45%. Cindy is just pulling numbers from her head and has the chance to be wrong.

Edit: These are the ED Calculations

< Message edited by The ND Mallet Guy -- 6/16/2011 10:47:15 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
6/16/2011 10:54:24   
Remorse
Member

^ or it has a chance to be 5% worse either way your interpret what she said is up to you but i interpret this, the max crit % is definately in the 45-50% region just because she said off the top of her head , dsnt mean she ment the whole max % chance rather the choice between the two.

however if cinderella did acidentaly make a mistake regarding crit %'s and it wre actuly what is stated in the luck clalculator page then something must be up with the luck calculation becuase some games are becoming pointless.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 6/16/2011 10:58:08 >
Epic  Post #: 16
6/16/2011 11:03:55   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @Remorse
quote:

Gamma Evolution 1.1.1b had the following changes to critical attacks:

BASE crit % reduced from 4% to 2% chance
Crit Max % reduced from 15% to 13%
Each increased Crit % requires 1 additional point of Support (increased to 7 up from 6)


Taken from the link of my last post. Crit is 2% Base and maxes at 13%. You need 91 more support than your opponent to get a 13% chance to crit.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
6/16/2011 11:49:50   
BlueKatz
Member

Uh... really? YOU MUST BE WRONG OR WE ARE DOOMED!

However that will explain the Crit rain those days
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
6/16/2011 14:33:04   
frogbones
Banned


 What's really concerning is that a Staff Member thought the max crit rate was ~45%.

Ummmmmm ...... really?

O_o
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
6/16/2011 16:31:07   
5rr5
Banned


 Everything you say is true, but you forgot that str builds, especially, always go first, crit, deflect and block. There's something special secret with str builds we'll never gonna find out
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
6/16/2011 17:02:27   
Goony
Constructive!


 I think the epicduelwiki should be updated to reflect the numbers stated by Cindy as this seems to me to be closer to the actual rate than the current description for critical calculations and at least then I could accept the amount of criticals that occur in the game!

It, the epicduelwiki, should also show that the chance to block with shadow arts and the dexterity differential can be maxed at a 100% chance as this would seem to be the appropriate figure!

45% hmmm, I could only hope to have a 50/50 chance to hit a BH on a rage strike! Hahaa... EpicFail again... Doh!!!
Epic  Post #: 21
6/16/2011 17:09:58   
xxmirxx
Member
 

 I don't pay attention to critical rate. like angels says for all we know it could be made up.
AQ Epic  Post #: 22
6/16/2011 17:14:28   
TurkishIncubus
Member

It happens to me most of the time actualy with str build 99% i lost against luck factor , well its hard to win when your oponent do 2 deflect 2 block and 1 crit in a battle :/

In 2vs1 some one blocked me with 0 dex , in 1vs1 some one without shadow arts and with lower dex,lower supp blocked - crited - deflected me and win :/

Thats why i say this game 100% luck 0% skill , just dont consider your lose and continue battle.Getting more wins is better than a good ratio.

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 23
6/16/2011 17:16:00   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 There is something called probability here. There are two types of it, Theoretical and Observed. Theoretical is the numbers you get on paper. These are the real numbers. They are 100% correct as long as your math is. Observed probability is what the player observes. 13% may seem like 50% but it's only Observed to be 50%. The RNG is still trying to roll a 1-13 to give you a crit. Just because you get a crit every other hit, doesn't mean the RNG has to roll 1-50 to get you a crit. The only way to make Observed probability match Theoretical is to make Theoretical 0% but that causes balance issues.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
6/16/2011 17:36:54   
Goony
Constructive!


 Theoretically speaking, I have observed some balance issues with luck calculations^^

The problem is that the observed probability doesn't match the theoretical probability. Now, you can argue for or against the stated values given by Titan and, as has been previously stated by Ashari, the only way to disprove the figures is to create a stable platform to test. Like battling Admin 12 1000 times to prove or disprove. The limitation with this is that the NPC's do not behave/calculate damage the same way as PvP battles, so in my opinion. while this may prove theoretical calculations work versus NPC, it doesn't prove that the calculations are working correctly in the PvP battles...

General consensus and observations would lead me to believe that there is an issue with the way the RNG calculates the luck factor in PvP battles since Titan removed the focus damage from the battle damage calculations... Just my opinion!

< Message edited by Goony -- 6/16/2011 17:43:07 >
Epic  Post #: 25
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