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Reducing the luckfactor indirectly and increase balance.

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3/8/2012 6:32:00   
Krawling
Member

My thoughts on how to lessen the luck/RNG impact and improve tactical thinking

I've given this some thoughts, been reading alot about how luck can flip the table to your favour ten times over. Also about people talking about stat abuse (str comes up alot). Then i started to analyze each battlemode and every single match. Found out some very balance breaking results. (all in my opinion)

Conclusion:
When the luck factor is so huge (could be a block, a deflect, a Huge critt (50% of total hp, hell even more), going first) balance will take the hit. If you can agree with me so far, please continue reading. As this games core is making strategical decissions based on your oponents class/build and the fact that its turn based this even plays a bigger role.

The luck factor is a great addition to the game, i would love it to stay the same, but change something else to reduce the great impact of it.

My proposal to lessen the luck factor and make battles more strategic:

1. Dynamic base increase in health as you level up. (to increase overall health and a good way to prevent the luckfactor to grow with higher levels and increased damage.
Cons:
Heallooping builds. Solution: increase the cost of heal (as heal gets stronger with levels)
Pros:
If struck by the wrath of luck/RNG its easier to recover/turn it around if the impact in this case on your healthpoints is lesser than today.

My phone is lagning insanley much while writing this ill Edit when i get Home...

The thing, in My humble opinion, with removing enhanchements might result in the new gear, with time, Will get back to the problem as gear improves.

2. As above, but with enegy (depending on class is discussable), an lesser increase per level. Why? Well as i've seen over the years most of the higher levels might go for 1 or 2 skills depending on the build. Nore energy regain classes probably got a few extra skills. But the main skill/s is the focus. I would love to see a bit more
Variety in offensive skillusing.
All this for a more strategic use of skills. As it is
Now most offensive skills are improved with a certain stat. I would love to be able to put a split between both stats/skills that uses diffrent stats to become better and still be competitive at a higher level.
Hope you follow me this far, ill clean the texts later.

This combined with the healthincrease, in my mind, could open up some nice new builds while pushing down the luck impact and increasing the strategic part of the game. More options-more strategies.



My way of thinking:
Long term solution to the overall balance, this will make it easier to adjust skills/classes also.
Discuss!

Best regards, Krawling


< Message edited by Krawling -- 3/8/2012 8:45:32 >
Post #: 1
3/8/2012 7:22:15   
gangster a
Member

increasing the health wont make it any less luckier and balanced a tank class could block about 6 times causing you too lose.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
3/8/2012 7:40:48   
Remorse
Member

I have a few idea.


I perosnaly think luck is at its worst when it is involved with power builds.
I think there are far too much stats leading to abusive build which leads to players resorting to constant high power to win which fianlly results in a greater impacting luck.

By decreasing the total ammount of stats it should fix alot of balance issues and luck.


But I also have some more direct luck ideas:

-Make it so the diffrence between a crit and a normal attack CAN NOT kill a player. What I mean is if you crit someone and kill them but it wouldnt of killed them if it didnt crit then instead they are left with 1hp rather then them dying, It also helps with unfair crits of super moves such as a crit masacre by a STR abuser is bascailly an unfair one hit K.O this way the other player can recover or get the turn were gonna have before the got killed by an unlucky crit.

Epic  Post #: 3
3/8/2012 7:46:50   
gangster a
Member

^ nice but umm then the next turn when they have 1hp left might cause you to lose beacuse they might crit you. which could be a problem

< Message edited by gangster a -- 3/8/2012 7:47:26 >
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/8/2012 8:10:10   
Remorse
Member

^Yeh but they cant kill you either...

If they get a crit on you and the crit could kill you but the normal attack wouldnt then you are also left with 1hp.

NOTE: If the noraml attack would still kill the opponent then it will say CRIT and they will still die because its not the diffrence between a normal attack and a crit that killed them.
Epic  Post #: 5
3/8/2012 8:11:24   
gangster a
Member

^ im still effy about that
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
3/8/2012 8:18:00   
Remorse
Member

^ Basically it means players can't* get unfair wins because of an unlcikly last hit crit.

And on things like masacre its pretty hard to survive if they crit that giving the opponenet no chance and very bad for balance.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/8/2012 8:29:25 >
Epic  Post #: 7
3/8/2012 8:19:10   
gangster a
Member

^ unfair wins ? :O i didnt like how that started
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/8/2012 8:30:08   
Remorse
Member

^ Edited I ment to say "Can't" not "can"
Epic  Post #: 9
3/8/2012 8:49:38   
Krawling
Member

@ganster a

I have to disagree with you, as you self stated "6 blocks" is pretty much, the probability and impact on the match as a
Whole is less if the impact on the outcome of the game is less. With a
Bit higher healthpools 1 block or 2 does not have to be a certain loss, using strategic thinking to adapt to the changed layout of the
Game. Ofc luck might still screw you over but hey, it wont happen as much.

Also one way to think about this:
Scenario 1:
8% to critt, (not considering skillbonuses) , you are in a 1vs1/2vs2 and as the impact of luck is so big, you hope and
Hope for that 8% crit. (or starting first, block, deflect..)
Scenario 2:
8% to critt, you are in a game with changes to lessen the impact of the luck factor. You see a "luckymove" as a
Small bonus instead of gamebreaking happening.

Best regards, Krawling

< Message edited by Krawling -- 3/8/2012 8:55:50 >
Post #: 10
3/8/2012 10:32:41   
Lord Nub
Member

Increased health would have its added benefits especially with the increase in stat points over time. A year ago or so when the whole agility thing was introduced we weren't dealing nearly as much damage so it didn't affect us as much but now one lucky 4% block or 1% crit can end the match regardless of a players build or skill.

Sure more health gives the players with the higher percentages to respond to such drastic "luck" but without full player control over the luck factors this game will never be a "Strategy" based game.

Minimum chances to crit, deflect, stun, and block need to be reduced to 0% and first turn needs to be decided by something even if that something affects nothing else whatsoever such as a new stat named first turn. The player with the most stats placed in said stat should ALWAYS go first, not some increased %.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
3/8/2012 11:19:43   
XxKirachanXx
Member

Luck is a strange thing for me, but I don't think it should be taken out so much as reduced.
Wouldn't things be dull if there was absolutely no chance of things taking any sort of turn?
And besides, assuming most of you are cap level, you prolly wouldn't notice, but the unfortunate non cap players would be at even more of a disadvantage.

Sadly tho for me, luck seems to effect me differently, it seems that when I am faced with a cap level opponent with less than half of my support, they often go first or crit me, my max shadow arts doesn't seem to make any sort of difference, yet when I'm fighting someone I actually have a chance against, BAM, I end up blocking 3-4 times in a row, when I could have easily done without.
So as I'm being reported for hacking by the offended opponent, I'm left to wonder, "where was all of that luck when I needed it?"

I personally think luck isn't entirely a bad thing, maybe it should be reduced, but if it was done away, how many people would play if their chance to win was absolute zero?
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
3/8/2012 11:57:27   
Lord Nub
Member

^ Chance to win absolute 0? That is never the case in any matchup with or without luck because of disconnects and strategy.

Luck is something that is impossible to take out of anything so the subject isn't about taking it out but reducing it.

I'd like it to be player controlled instead of "ED God" controlled with minimum percentages which would in turn make that luck more of a strategic element. When a player is blocked and so forth it wasn't because ED decided it was time to be blocked but rather because the player didn't have enough points placed in dexterity.

Obviously players will still have those low percentage blocks, crits, and etc. but at least the players chose to have those percentages through their stat placement and not because somebody decided it would be nice for 10 year olds to ruin the strategic element of the game.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
3/8/2012 12:05:15   
XxKirachanXx
Member

I'm not sure about you, but I would find it impossible for a lv 31 to defeat a level 34 which likely outmatches the lower level in everything.
I have often crossed paths with an opponent with a massive strength build that literally had a huge advantage in hp, attack, defense, and resistance, and all I had was a support advantage of about 20 points. And so my only hope of victory should be to hope for a disconnect?

In my opinion, since support is based almost entirely on chance, it's influence should be improved, but I don't think it should always guarantee an advantage.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/8/2012 13:06:20   
Lord Nub
Member

^ I don't feel you understand what I am talking about.

Normally players in here don't because they don't understand how the percentages work to begin with. Check out, http://www.epicduelwiki.com/index.php/How_Things_Are_Calculated then perhaps you will understand a little more clearly on why 0% minimums are needed which are also not to be confused by maximums.

Also, keep in mind that the base chances and points it takes to adjust +- 1% could also be changed should 0% minimums be implemented. There is no reason for something like these factors to be out of the players hands.

With these luck factors combined with the increase of stat points given to us through these constant weapon releases along with agility keeping our hp/def low, one minimum percentage luck factor can cause a loss for no reason other than a buffer for the 10 year olds to stand a chance. It ruins the fun aspect for the players who know how to play and the game becomes less and less strategy focused as it progresses.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
3/8/2012 13:24:12   
XxKirachanXx
Member

I would have to disagree. From a disadvantage it would require more strategy to win, abusing stats is easy.
Here is a little example. If someone was to abuse dex and hp, odds are, with zero percent minimums, you have next to no chance to land a single hit on him with your energy primary, your physical gun and aux wouldn't scratch him, and your assault bot would be blocked. I would rather not consider the possibility of him have max smokescreen.
It would require far more strategy to overcome an inconvenient block than to abuse a stat and never be blocked.
I think it would be much better to keep the minimums as they are, they are rather insignificant as is. 4% block chance isn't as much as you make it out to be.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/8/2012 13:28:54   
Lord Nub
Member

^ You are already as lost as every other person that attempts to counter my proposal.

quote:

If someone was to abuse dex and hp, odds are, with zero percent minimums, you have next to no chance to land a single hit on him


Once again I will state what has already been stated above your post,

quote:

0% minimums are needed which are also not to be confused by maximums.


Should the current block percentages be used with the implementation of a 0% minimum it would be adjusted as such, 0%-40% with a base chance of 10% adjustable +-1% per 2 points of dexterity, meaning even with max shadow arts which takes 42 support and 60 more dexterity than your opponent, you would only have a 50% chance of blocking.

AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
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