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Do You Think Heartattack Should Affect Thorns for the Sake of Balance?

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3/11/2012 9:12:23   
Stabilis
Member

Disco. Err, I mean please discuss.
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
3/11/2012 9:18:51   
Remorse
Member

I am going for two options here.


Option one-
Azreal bot DOES not effect thorns.
WHY? because it destroys the purpose of thorns and thats a counter for STR abusers.

Option two-
Make azreal bot increase with focus:
at 0 focus- 20% (buff redduction)
1 focus- 30%
2- 40%
3 50%
4 65%
5 80% (as it is currently) (Note: at the levels 4-5 focus it improves by 15% rather then 10% because these levels of focus are hard to obtain were as the lower levels ar pretty much the same as most requirements...)

BUT let it still decrease thorns.
WHY? azreal bot is really only balance destroying because it is so effective with a powerbuild combo.
It also limits powerbuilds counters as sheild dont work proberly and they gain even faster rage then there opponenet for shrinking the sheild...

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/11/2012 9:24:20 >
Epic  Post #: 2
3/11/2012 9:23:17   
8x
Member

^I like the option two, and maybe the new bot should be like that too.
Epic  Post #: 3
3/11/2012 9:26:54   
Remorse
Member

^
The reason why option 2 is in place is because there is a clear relationship of azreal bot being abused by powerbuilds.


So I think this restriction should only be in place to bots that have a problem with combined with certain builds.

So the thorn abailty is as far as I know not completely abused by powerbuilds or stat abusers soo much so that its only those types of builds that use them and abuse it.
SO the bioborg robot should NOT get this restricittion.

This will also keep the intended variety the bots allow to stay up.

Aussult however could argueably be up for nomination for this restriction BUT they arent COMPLTELY abused by abusive builds so I think aussult is just in the clear.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/11/2012 9:34:54 >
Epic  Post #: 4
3/11/2012 9:27:22   
Stabilis
Member

1 final issue:

A 5 focus player places all of their enhancements into Strength, giving them up to a minimal base Strength damage range of 20 (20-24 on stat progressions).
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
3/11/2012 9:31:48   
Remorse
Member

^well first off they would have to make sacrifises to both defence and HP and possibly damage

which means they will become alot like old beta powerabusers having disadvanatges making them possibly easier to counter.


The problem with powerabusers with High hp damage and defences and an azreal... thats where your problem is.

It may be reasonable to counter if they had to sacrifise to be 5 focus.

But you right the optoin to get 5 focus and use the same sort of build IS there so this change wont harm variety :)
but hopefully this combo wont take its tole on balance so badly.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/11/2012 9:32:47 >
Epic  Post #: 6
3/11/2012 9:33:38   
Stabilis
Member

One moment please I have to switch to my laptop (texting by phone).
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
3/11/2012 11:07:43   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 If one were to know what bot an enemy had before hand, one could start out with a Shield, get that nerfed and then use BioBorg. I wouldn't think about having BioBorg nerfed and then using a shield. I'd rather have a reflect of damage instead of higher defense.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/11/2012 11:37:53   
SouL Prisoner
Member

quote:

I am going for two options here.


Option one-
Azreal bot DOES not effect thorns.
WHY? because it destroys the purpose of thorns and thats a counter for STR abusers.

Option two-
Make azreal bot increase with focus:
at 0 focus- 20% (buff redduction)
1 focus- 30%
2- 40%
3 50%
4 65%
5 80% (as it is currently) (Note: at the levels 4-5 focus it improves by 15% rather then 10% because these levels of focus are hard to obtain were as the lower levels ar pretty much the same as most requirements...)


Supported .

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
3/11/2012 12:10:58   
Remorse
Member

@ ND

I tried that strategy and it doesnt work,

Mainly because first off you use 2! non rage giving turns nor attacks then when you are thorned you usally only get 1-2 attacks from it so even if you got 2 attacks it means total of 1 attack was returned BUT you would of been better just striking urself and gaining rage.



IMO the only main use for this is NOT a counter for STR builds at all infact it actuly makes it harder to kill them( you end up wasting turns, BUT what it is useful for is against tanks which you cant damage high at all.

SO in a sence, this bot actuly helps STR abusers against tanks more then it actuly make a vaible counter for this obviolsy OPED STR build problem.

Balance is in deep do do cureently and this bot has actuly done nothing to help it.
Blood mages are at an extreme level, I actuly cant counter them....


< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/11/2012 12:12:53 >
Epic  Post #: 10
3/11/2012 12:12:36   
AQWPlayer
Member

Wait a second. Azrael bot is intended to reduce BUFFS (technician, defense matrix, energy shield, reflex boost, field commander, etc) not specials like thorns.
AQW  Post #: 11
3/11/2012 12:14:13   
Remorse
Member

^

If only.

The balance team need to open there eyes to the STR/Powerbuild problem It is soo bad I refuse to play 1v1 and be the victom of some effortless STR abuser....

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/11/2012 12:15:19 >
Epic  Post #: 12
3/11/2012 12:16:48   
Basicball
Member

@AQW: basically, the new bot buffs your dmg reflecting by 50%

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
3/11/2012 12:17:29   
midnight assassin
Member

quote:

Option two-
Make azreal bot increase with focus:
at 0 focus- 20% (buff redduction)
1 focus- 30%
2- 40%
3 50%
4 65%
5 80% (as it is currently) (Note: at the levels 4-5 focus it improves by 15% rather then 10% because these levels of focus are hard to obtain were as the lower levels ar pretty much the same as most requirements...)


Supported even if I want to nerf thorns.

< Message edited by midnight assassin -- 3/11/2012 12:18:42 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/11/2012 12:27:36   
Wraith
Member
 

 Ehh.

Thorns isn't a stat buff. So thus, should not be affected by Heart Attack. To the furthest of my knowledge, it isn't inflicted upon the user. Only the enemy is actually effected. Thus, I do not see the reasoning.

@Above: After Non-Variums received a Rusted Bot, I believe this Bot was made to counter the fact that Non-Variums can actually almost defeat Variums 50-50. That is unfair, and thus FTP Strength Overpowered builds received a big nerf.



In a Varium vs Non-Var fight, it should be 50-50 if the Non-Var has better strategy. Otherwise, it should not give the Varium player a hard time. (Fine, the experienced player x.x too many noob newbs out there spamming skills). Because in this game, an advantage equals a win. This is simply my opinion, directed at those who believe Non-Variums deserve more -- Varium players give you the ability to play.

I apologize if I have offended anyone.



EDIT: After some thought, it appears that power builds, namely Strength builds relying on Primary attacks, received a nerf through this. However, this was not the right course of action. Bounty Hunter and standard Mercenaries alike have been penalized for using a build that was one of their only hopes. Meanwhile, Strength Blood Mages can evade this penalization through using Ranged attacks that deal far more damage than a Bounty/Mercenary's Melee attack.

Nerfing through the way of Varium only options is not the solution.

The stat system needs to be redone, just like in Gamma. Classes need a certain level of power, be it pure offense, pure defense, or a hybrid. A class needs to have options, but focus on a certain playing style that is on par with others. When something overpowered comes up, it needs to be taken care of immediately. I do not believe that every class should have the same options, because then there would be no point in classes. For example, Tactical Mercs should be a Tank, dealing little damage but taking little as well. A Bounty Hunter should be a hybrid, adapting to different situations. Blood Mages are berserkers, dealing massive damage but taking a lot as well.

I believe that we should sacrifice the ability to win a battle every few seconds for the right to have thoughtful, strategic matches. After all, battles currently are meaningless: If you have X gear you win, use Y class you win.

< Message edited by Wraith -- 3/11/2012 12:37:00 >

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AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
3/11/2012 12:31:54   
midnight assassin
Member

^But in my opinion, they've just secretly nerf smoke screen. The tone of my voice suggest that we non var must deserve more love but it does not. I can feel the pain of some bh after they release the new bot. What was left is a dex build, tech, 5 focus, defensive and poison. Also some mercs were affected by this release.

But stil... I will survive *sings*.

< Message edited by midnight assassin -- 3/11/2012 12:38:47 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/11/2012 12:39:40   
Wraith
Member
 

 @Midnight Assassin : I apologize if I misunderstood.

Honestly, focus Bounties still work, as a result of Ranged attacks.

I am wondering if Bot attacks count as Ranged or Melee.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
3/11/2012 12:44:14   
midnight assassin
Member

@Wraith

You have a point in there in which bh must learn to use other builds rather than str builds. I am one of the few of the luckiest bh that was not affected by the release of new bot.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
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