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HP/EP Enhancements

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5/14/2012 2:49:48   
goldslayer1
Member

i been thinking about this, and it seems like weapon requirements are going up.
since the requirements are going up, this make it harder to have high HP and EP.

so what if they allowed us to be able to change our enhancements points and put them to HP or EP?
i dont mean for weapons to give hp or EP points (that would be 0 ALWAYS) but to allow us to put enhancement points (like regular stat points) into health and/or energy. so that we may use the weapons while keeping the HP/EP wanted.

it would be like regular stat points, just with enhancements so that we can use those regular points to fill the weapon requirements.

any feedback on this idea?
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
5/14/2012 3:03:11   
SouL Prisoner
Member

Hmmm,, even i thought of this, but..wouldn't it be funny, if you just removed your weapon and your HP goes down/decreases ....

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
5/14/2012 3:07:00   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Hmmm,, even i thought of this, but..wouldn't it be funny, if you just removed your weapon and your HP goes down/decreases ....

u mean just like ur stats?

well yeah thats the point. to have those stats on items so u can put enhancements.

it would allow more customization.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
5/14/2012 7:05:18   
Stabilis
Member

Yes I do support this. Focus 5 players can have a maximum health count of 111 if they are Mercenary. They should be able to have more health at the cost of basic stat enhancements.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
5/14/2012 7:26:27   
Wraith
Member
 

 *looks at Yeti Bot*

We'd have to put the HP/EP enh's on Primary and Armor then...

I support.

BTW, does Yeti remove stats when eating your gun/aux?

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AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
5/14/2012 11:15:15   
Stabilis
Member

I believe the stats remain when items are nom'd.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
5/14/2012 11:17:40   
ScarletReaper
Member

Yeah they do. Otherwise that bot would be waaaaaayyyy overpowered.

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DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
5/14/2012 11:19:33   
Stabilis
Member

Whoops accidentally posted.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 5/14/2012 11:20:16 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
5/14/2012 11:20:41   
ScarletReaper
Member

Yes. when it was used on me my stats remained the same.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/14/2012 11:24:01   
Stabilis
Member

Don't mind me, I thought you had stated that the stats change when nom is used lol-


Now I read it again and now I see that you said they do not change.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
5/14/2012 11:24:03   
Ranloth
Banned


 One question - at what ratio? 1 stat:2HP/EP or 1:1? As making it 1:2 would be a joke, because enhancements would be even more out of hand and give much bigger advantage.
And seeing items with HP/EP boost would be also not needed - creates more problems than it should. HP and Agility, useless Energy if you don't need it, etc. Enhancements would be fine only, but at 1:1 ratio instead which would probably be useless for some?*

* Although, 1 HP = 1 Def/Res and 1 Def/Res = 4 Dex/Tech so 1:1 ratio seems fine and balanced.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
5/14/2012 11:30:46   
khalidon5000
Member

To get 1 def/res you need to invest 4 stat points or more depending on scaling.

4 stat points= 1 def/res or 8hp
So...
Someone hits you 4 times with a physical weapon dealing 3 damage (3*4) each time with 26def and 89 hp 89-12=77
Someone hits you 4 times with a physical weapon dealing 4 damage (4*4)each time with 25def and 93hp 93-16= 77

If someone gets more then 4 connected attacks you would be better off with def/res.
If someone rages 50% of your defenses are ignored so you would be better off with hp.

So it all depends on the situation.

< Message edited by khalidon5000 -- 5/14/2012 11:42:00 >
Epic  Post #: 12
5/14/2012 11:31:38   
Stabilis
Member

Um, Trans, 1 HP ≠ 1 D/R.

1 D/R = 1 HP * # of connected attacks

There is also a contrast in rage, upon rage HP is not ignored but 50% of D/R (and passive armor).

The longer the battle, the more value D/R has over HP.

That is why the standard equivalence of 2 HP equalling 1 stat point is fair, and 1 D/R ≈ 4 stat points.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
5/14/2012 11:45:52   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yes, but if you think about it, 1:2 ratio will make enhancements even more OP which will make us everyone regret the decision.. unless some of us like to have 100% win rate against noobs due to being much stronger. And as we can live without it, HP/EP enhancements, then what's the point of adding this? Make it even more OP (enhancements)?

Agility can be ignored, -2 Res/Def is a joke with 140 HP as it won't kill you in a long run, less Def/Res as HP makes up for it. This would be the case if HP enhancing was introduced. And Agility would be screwed, unless they already plan to take it off from the game (was told so).

I don't wish to create it into balance topic, and I don't need to know that 1 HP =/= 1 Def/Res exactly. It's still my opinion and I don't need people pushing into it and correcting me. As I said, HP is more efficient in the long run, over investing in Tech/Def. Blocks and Deflections are random and unreliable to estimate exactly, HP is always the same.
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
5/14/2012 11:48:18   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

One question - at what ratio? 1 stat:2HP/EP or 1:1? As making it 1:2 would be a joke, because enhancements would be even more out of hand and give much bigger advantage.
And seeing items with HP/EP boost would be also not needed - creates more problems than it should. HP and Agility, useless Energy if you don't need it, etc. Enhancements would be fine only, but at 1:1 ratio instead which would probably be useless for some?*

it would remain the same.

1 enhancement point = the same as a stat point.

what this would allow, is for me to use really high hp (like 150 hp) with high energy like 100 energy while keeping the requirements for my weapons via regular stats.

it would also allow more customizing in builds.


@trans
how is it making enhancements OP?
ur putting ur enhancements into HP over ur regular stats. its pretty much the same thing.
except this would also allow players to go with higher hp or energy points.

and if thats the case, then they are sacrificing points from somewhere else, as if it were regular stats.

except they can maintain the requirements for weapon with high REQs

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/14/2012 11:52:37 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
5/14/2012 11:51:56   
Ranloth
Banned


 Ah, that's what I wanted to know as it's your idea. ^^

Also any idea on how this would work after requirements are gone from weapons? There are plans for it. And Cindy apparently said that Agility was a "patch" that might be gone eventually - wouldn't that allow HP abuse without requirements? They will deal with abusing when taking off requirements eventually, so players won't abuse it, but how would it work for HP? (if you have any ideas yet of course ^^)

And how it's making them OP? Gap is getting bigger between Varium and non-Varium, which leads to easy wins, less players, blablabla.. That kind of stuff.

< Message edited by Trans -- 5/14/2012 11:53:19 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
5/14/2012 11:54:27   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Also any idea on how this would work after requirements are gone from weapons? There are plans for it. And Cindy apparently said that Agility was a "patch" that might be gone eventually - wouldn't that allow HP abuse without requirements? They will deal with abusing when taking off requirements eventually, so players won't abuse it, but how would it work for HP? (if you have any ideas yet of course ^^)

like i said, if they decide to put more into hp or energy, they are sacrificing points from somewhere else (like enhancements)

and who gave a 100% confirmation that requirements would be gone?


quote:

And how it's making them OP? Gap is getting bigger between Varium and non-Varium, which leads to easy wins, less players,

the amount of stats for them remains the same if they put their enhancements into HP.

like i said, it allows more customization. which is what this game needs.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/14/2012 11:55:28 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
5/14/2012 12:00:29   
Ranloth
Banned


 Rabble said a while ago, when weapons were buffed/nerfed/rebalanced, he said that they'd ideally remove requirements completely but since abuse happens now without them (like Beta weapons), then weapons with higher stats and higher damage would lead to even worse abuse.
quote:

EDIT: Weapon requirements are also untouched in this update. Again, not sure what the plan is for them. Ideally we'd like to remove them entirely, but that would potentially require completely changing how stats work to prevent stat abuse.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20198603

So it's pretty much big IF really, but I'd drop it now (the requirements discussion) as they'd have idea how to balance it out by time they tried to remove the requirements. Although since enhancements exists how they are, surely you can lower your normal stats, put more enhancements in stats and use the normal stats you have left for HP/EP? Requirements only get in the way, so idea does have its good point when you look at it.
I'm not against it but answers are always good, as it helps you to explain the idea even further and prevent others asking same thing. :P

< Message edited by Trans -- 5/14/2012 12:01:33 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
5/14/2012 12:14:15   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

So it's pretty much big IF really, but I'd drop it now (the requirements discussion) as they'd have idea how to balance it out by time they tried to remove the requirements. Although since enhancements exists how they are, surely you can lower your normal stats, put more enhancements in stats and use the normal stats you have left for HP/EP? Requirements only get in the way, so idea does have its good point when you look at it.
I'm not against it but answers are always good, as it helps you to explain the idea even further and prevent others asking same thing. :P

thats a big IF. and while i dont want to discredit the balance team, (plasma armor and tlms in early delta) im considering all approaches to this.

i just cant have an idea and go by what they might do in the future. because we dont even know if it will work, or if they can do it, or if they can test these things. so right now, im going by what we have. altho it doesn't really make a difference if requirements were moved.

all it does is give enhancements more variety, and more customization of builds.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/14/2012 12:15:55 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
5/14/2012 12:15:39   
Rayman
Banned


 Could this be like this??
If I get 95hp plus 20 hp enhancements would agility affect or it wont affect?
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/14/2012 12:20:15   
Ranloth
Banned


 It would affect it, just like how other stats affect other skills, defences, etc. This is quite logical. :P
And speaking about HP enhancing, Agility would definitely have to stay but I really want it Level scaled so we're not forced into 95 HP at every single Level throughout the game, or 110 HP at tops. Yes it's whole different topic but it links to it quite fairly. :)
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
5/14/2012 12:21:46   
goldslayer1
Member

@rayman
95 + 20 hp more (which would be 10 enhancements) would be 115 and yes it is affected by agility. (altho they said they were removing that supposedly. but it wouldn't make a difference if they did)

agility was supposedly a patch. which wouldn't be much of a problem if they left field medic on support, but only allow field medic to be used X amount of times per battle. (like only once or twice per battle)

this way support would still be considered a decent stat.
the way field medic is set up, it only favors tanks that can regain energy. (like cyber hunter, or tlms)
it no longer gives any advantage to support, who aren't tanks.

thats why cyber hunter was OP and they eventually nerfed static (TBH tho, adding plasma armor wasn't necessary, if it wasn't for plasma a static nerf would have never happened) which wasn't needed.

quote:

It would affect it, just like how other stats affect other skills, defences, etc. This is quite logical. :P
And speaking about HP enhancing, Agility would definitely have to stay but I really want it Level scaled so we're not forced into 95 HP at every single Level throughout the game, or 110 HP at tops. Yes it's whole different topic but it links to it quite fairly. :)


actually, i been thinking more into this, and it should theoretically allow players to use the full advantage of skills.

for example, ill use deadly aim.

lets say i have some stats in support, while having 32 base support.

if i changed those support enhancements to hp/ep and grab the base points and put them into support, it would allow me to use a higher lvl deadly aim. but at the same time, having the same amount of hp i would have had before and the same support.

the end result is more customization in builds.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 5/14/2012 12:27:50 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
5/14/2012 12:51:49   
Rayman
Banned


 Uhmm, I Support this Looks fine to have to me.
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
5/14/2012 13:03:45   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 I don't support. The only drawbacks to Focus builds are the low health and energy. In return they get above average everything for other stats. Yes they don't have any other points to spend elsewhere if they put stats into health and energy but they already have 45+10-25 each stat because of normal item stat boosts before enhancements as it is.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
5/14/2012 13:21:55   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I don't support. The only drawbacks to Focus builds are the low health and energy. In return they get above average everything for other stats. Yes they don't have any other points to spend elsewhere if they put stats into health and energy but they already have 45+10-25 each stat because of normal item stat boosts before enhancements as it is.

yes, this is true.
it would allow focus to have more hp/ep but its at a stat price.

if they are putting points into energy or health, they are loosing defense and/or offense
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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