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The 2v2 Problem

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8/14/2012 7:16:43   
Shock Value
Member

Currently, there are 3 major problems we are facing with 2v2 battles:

1. Unfair battles resulting from large level differences between the two sides

2. Allies disconnecting and leaving one player facing two

3. Having allies that are 'useless', aka wielding a primary with no armor, aux, or gun


Despite the prevalence of these problems, they are not without solutions. Since the devs are probably unaware of these problems, or don't intend to do something about them anytime soon, here are the solutions I propose.


1. The solution to this problem is easy: Lower the max level difference between the two sides to at most one. Simple and straightforward.

2. This is a bit more complex. I believe a penalty for disconnecting from battles would work well (much like the way Halo prevents in-game quits). A temporary ban, 5-10 minutes, would work. I'm open to more suggestions from you guys

3. In lower-level 2v2 battles, such as from levels 1-27, players without a full set of equipment (meaning armor, primary, sidearm, and aux) is common and does not have much effect on the outcome of the battles. However, in high-level 2v2 battles, starting from level 28-35, players that are not fully-equipped are often a burden to their ally, and often lead to a defeat. Therefore, I propose that starting from level 30, players must have a full set of equipment in order to participate in a 2v2 battle.

Please give me feedback and suggestions on the solutions to these problems. Discuss, argue, debate - and together we might be able to make EpicDuel a better game for all of us.


~Shock

*Note; I did not post this in the suggestions thread because I would like to discuss my ideas with the members of EpicDuel first, and use this thread as a discussion first, suggestion second.
Moved to ED Suggestions. Rules first, as suggestions doesn't belong in ED GD. You can suggest and discuss your ideas in ED Suggestions instead. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 8/14/2012 23:15:03 >
Epic  Post #: 1
8/14/2012 7:20:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 1. Sure
2. Not really. What if real DC happens on your side? I have to pay for it because I got DC'd? Consecutive times yes (during the hour/day) but not one DC and ban.
3. No. What if someone was hacked at high Level? This happens. That's not that good idea; requiring the player to have full set of equipment. You can get Lvl 1 items and have "full set" yet still be at major disadvantage so making such a system will make no difference. If you use #1, that's all that has to be done. Poor equipment? Blame getting hacked or not knowing how to manage your money.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
8/14/2012 7:28:52   
Shock Value
Member

Trans:

Addressing your second response, there's the problem of what you mean by 'real DC'. I'm assuming you mean when you get the 'internet connection lost' alert. All we have to do is make sure the penalty applies only to players who purposely disconnect, and not when they get the 'internet connection lost' alert.

About your third response: I understand the part about a player getting a full set of low-level weapons, as that way they could loophole through the requirement. I don't quite understand what you're saying about getting hacked though.

~Shock
Epic  Post #: 3
8/14/2012 8:20:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 Just so you know. Real DCs and closing the tab are all counted as logging out. They cannot be distinguished if it was done purposely or connection loss.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
8/14/2012 8:57:26   
veneeria
Member

With trans here, though on 2. it would be more meaningful if instead of "banning" the fight wouldn't count to the player's win/loss %. Current system in 2v2, also awards those who can 1v2 in a 2v2 battle (this is, when the ally leaves).

A sudden shut down or the lights going off are also other reasons.

On 3., this isn't really only on 2v2 's as it applies on 1v1 fights. Pretty much what trans said too and he meant that some players do lose their items because they were hacked*, giving them some reason for being "harmless" during battles.

*hacked - scammed <-

< Message edited by veneeria -- 8/14/2012 8:58:59 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
8/14/2012 9:01:40   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @ven I don't want to consider removing the battle counting as an option because there will be several times that a player wins that battle and he will probably rage learning that it didn't count. You also have people continuing to leave after that first DC since the battle no longer counts as valid.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
8/14/2012 9:03:19   
veneeria
Member

@The ND Mallet Guy meant if the battle is lost, shouldn't count then. (to the player who is facing 2) Or adding in, if the battle is won, should give the 1v1 reward. ( the players who win against 1)
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
8/14/2012 9:09:18   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @ven I doubt there's a way to make it not count if the single player loses but count if he does win. I'm not sure about the rewards in a 2vs1 situation but I believe you do get lowered rewards in that situation since you get extra exp and creds for killing one guy before dying so there is a connection to how many players you kill and how much reward you get.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
8/14/2012 9:14:52   
veneeria
Member

@The ND Mallet Guy Well, but i do believe it is possible, since there is a bonus for beating 1v2 ( in which the player alone beats the 2 other players, regardless of the ally "fleeing").
But yeah i understand you logic. I guess, this is one of those things that only can be confirmed by the staff themselves.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
8/14/2012 9:18:16   
Pegadius
Member

If we make it so when just thinking out loud here.
My partner leaves and the others kill me their win shouldn't count?
What if we get people like those who cheat the system as in you're about to lose a battle, you leave the game,
No harm done because the battle doesn't count.
And saying that the one who's partner left will be in a 1v2 and will get greater rewards, what if the other team's person leaves aswell?
Then it will be a 1v1 what happens then?
I'm just agreeing with the 1st suggestion of making the level differences smaller :)


< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 8/14/2012 23:13:15 >
Epic  Post #: 10
8/14/2012 10:09:00   
Promaster
Member

Levels 30 and above have to have a full set of weapons before they can enter a 2v2 fight? This is not a good idea for those who are unable to manage their credits. 2v2 is currently the only way a high leveled "noob" earns credits as it offers them a slim chance of winning. Take that away and they'll only be left with 1v1 or NPCs. Considering the fact that they lack a single weapon, armor or aux, they will have almost no chance of winning in 1v1 due to the overwhelming number of fully equipped and fully enhanced/semi-enhanced players. And 15 NPCs per hour wont help them much either, considering that 15x32 = 480 credits per hour. Who knows how long they have to grind npcs before they can actually afford an expensive weapon/armor/aux that they lack. I do not even support having challenge-able NPCs which gives credits and exp in a PvP game. This would actually be, no offence, a selfish way of solving the problem of "noobs" in 2v2 fights as you will only limit their chances of getting credits. This can lead to a backwash effect and also an unlimited number of consequences.
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
8/14/2012 12:24:30   
Westwycke
Member

Lowering the max difference between the two sides to a maximum of 1 sounds good in principle, but it doesn't work in game terms. Let's do the math.

Max 1000 players per server; 35 different levels. That comes out to about 3% of the players at any particular level. There will be some anomalies, such as a higher percentage at level 35, but this means that other levels will be even lower. So let's go with 3%/level for now.

That means that there will usually only be about 30 players at each level, or a max pool of 90 eligible players. But since the odds are that we won't get all 4 players at the same level, we have to assume only 2 different levels (for instance 30 and 31) will be involved to keep the level difference to 1 or less. So the pool is really only about 60 players.

Now, how many of those are actively pursuing 2v2 battles? Some will be doing 1v1, some will be doing Juggernaut, some will be doing NPC's or missions, and some will be doing other stuff like chatting, checking out their faction stats, or just plain AFK. So for simple math, let's guess 40% 1v1, 40% 2v2, and 20% all other. So now our eligible pool is down to 24.

2v2 battles take a while, around 2-3 minutes. Let's say 2.5 minutes. With 24 people, each entering battle once about every 2.5 minutes, that translates into one person entering a battle every 6 seconds. That means it would take on average about 24 seconds to start a battle. Of course, the extra 24 seconds have to be added on to the length of the battle making it about 3 minutes per battle from start to finish which slows the reentry rate a bit more.

Now, this is with a full server, and an average number of players at the level you are at. If the server is only 75% full, or our assumptions about how popular 2v2 is are a bit high, or you are at a level that is below the average, then the wait time between battles gets even longer.

The reality is that the game need the wider window of levels we currently have in order to be able to match up players and start battles within a reasonable time.
MQ Epic  Post #: 12
8/14/2012 12:42:29   
Naruto Uzamaki
Member
 

 1 have no problem with wins I can its your class techmages are not built for 2vs2 at all.
2 had that happen few times for me over the past were i get disconnect or I battle fail start we can not do anything about people running away since we don't know if it is disconnect or not.
3 I don't lose my built works good for that
Post #: 13
8/14/2012 18:32:29   
Shock Value
Member

People not getting 'wins' counted in 2v2 because one of the opposite team's players left would only cause discontent. Not giving the 'abandoned' player a loss would work, however.
Epic  Post #: 14
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