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1/25/2013 9:03:14   
Stabilis
Member

Discuss how many stat points per stat could be placed per stat-able item (Primary, Sidearm, Auxiliary, Armor) without wrecking balance.

As of today, 40% of the stat points on a stat-able item may be used. So if I had a weapon with 20 stats, I can place a maximum of 8 stats on Strength and 8 stats on Dexterity and have 4 remaining stats which I may place to either Technology or Support.

Seems kind of limited, does it not? If it was 25% per stat, THERE WOULD BE NO CHOICE.

I believe it should be 50% at least (but not too much higher).

Ideally it could be limitless if only stat balance was taken attention to...

I say 50% because what kind of dual-stats is ridiculously overpowered? You could say Dexterity-Technology on caster or Focus, but then again, this defence construct is meant to fall to rage and build enemy rage speedily.

So?

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 1/26/2013 12:04:46 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
1/25/2013 9:41:09   
derpbuscus
Member

Supported, it feels like it should be held at around 50%
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
1/25/2013 12:15:30   
Remorse
Member

I will wait to see what omega is like first,

I assume this would be fine because their is less stats in total. So piling should be a lot less of a balance issue, and more a creative alternative.


But probably a good idea to see how things are for ourselves in omega before we suggest changes like this.
Epic  Post #: 3
1/25/2013 13:10:28   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


Once again I bring up Strength Tech for BHs. You can argue that it's how the skills are set up that make it OPd but that doesn't count for much. It's like saying Strength builds aren't OPd if you remove the Strength skills. It's absolutely right but it's not a viable option. There's a reason you'll be hard pressed to find a weapon with good strength and tech(good meaning more than a few points in one of those stats)

Strength Support is also a good combo for both TMs and Mercs because Malf/BC with support as well as that Strength. I managed roughly 68%+ in 2vs2 with a Str Supp Merc build back in Beta before we even had BC for mercs.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/25/2013 13:31:59   
Mr.Junkie
Member
 

Did omega release this weekend !?
Post #: 5
1/25/2013 14:35:56   
xGreen Warriorx
Member

^ No, its not going to be out until sometime after Sunday.

@Remorse
I completely agree.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
1/25/2013 16:07:20   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

Once again I bring up Strength Tech for BHs. You can argue that it's how the skills are set up that make it OPd but that doesn't count for much. It's like saying Strength builds aren't OPd if you remove the Strength skills. It's absolutely right but it's not a viable option. There's a reason you'll be hard pressed to find a weapon with good strength and tech(good meaning more than a few points in one of those stats).


Bounty Hunter: Strength + Technology (+ Relative Health)

Promoted Skills (skills that have been improved): Cheap Shot, Smokescreen, EMP Grenade, Massacre

Sustained Skills (skills that have a stat requirement fulfilled): Field Medic, Bloodlust, Venom Strike

Promoted Skills Maximum Stat Requirements: 42 Support (Massacre)

Assuming that if any of the promoted skills were to be maxed-level, 24 player stat points must be allocated to Support. 24 out of 136 player stats excluding item stats. Roughly 18% (from 17.6%) of all player stats spent. That is, IF Massacre was max level, or if Smokescreen was max level (41 Support). As they are promoted skills, they are still beneficial at any skill level, but also energy-friendly the lower the skill levels are. Therefore the promoted skills' index of 18% of player stats is a maximum and can be reduced to 0% if Massacre is unselected and Smokescreen is level 1. The player stats are then mastered, that is to say they are under the player's total control.

I should not even start again about Strength though. 2 weapons, both are the speediest and 1 (Strike) is limitless in theory. Versus Support, the opposing offensive stat, as I have demonstrated before alone in damage-over-time graphs just using Strike VS Auxiliary, Strike has a DOT rating equal to 4 * Auxiliary thanks be to cooldowns. That is not a given DOT, but a potential, because players may not be choosing to "attack" every single turn (wishfully thinking).

So I will conclude that if a Strength + Technology Bounty Hunter is overpowered at all, it should be nerfed based on the skeletal synergy of the skill tree (especially for offence/ spammish behavior), not because of a 50% split between 2 stats that are purposefully meant to be equal in opportunity (no stat advantage over the other [true imbalance in PVP]). If 2 stats were ever not possibly equal in value, there is a core imbalance nested in the basic structure of the game.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
1/26/2013 10:30:49   
EpicIsEpic
Member

100% supported i was thinking aout that all the time since you dont have high choise 50% Would be better
Post #: 8
1/26/2013 12:21:21   
the final hour
Banned


theyre changing stuff for a reason i guess we just have to have faith that theyll get it right this time . i really dont want the insanely OP builds returning again . so im abit reluctant to support this as it could cause it.

< Message edited by the final hour -- 1/26/2013 12:23:50 >
Post #: 9
1/27/2013 15:01:44   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@void There will always be synergy between multiple stats on a tree. If there isn't, then it just promotes abusing one stat. Why bother getting 5 focus if you only have all strength skills? The obvious choice there is to abuse strength. With two stats its harder to spam stats and get a huge return from it at least. Mainly because very few weapons only ever give two stats alone.

Also, strength dex for CHs can work as well as strength support but I'd rather go str/dex because of Plasma Armor.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/27/2013 20:28:52   
suboto
Member

decideing a 25% per stat isnt right the stats are already going to be lowered from the enchantment being gone which forceing 25% each would make a force of focus 5 being the best build....(unrelated promo should remain better then non promo items in some way)
Epic  Post #: 11
1/27/2013 21:56:54   
Combatoid
Member

I personally think that 40% would be balanced. I personally think that if it was 50% then you would be getting a lot of Str+Dex bh's.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/27/2013 22:35:19   
the final hour
Banned


^gd luck to em with the mages and ches theyll need it !
Post #: 13
1/27/2013 22:46:56   
Stabilis
Member

ND,

Of course there is synergy with all classes, I am trying to diffuse the situation not make a big deal out of synergy, because it is not.

The problem with any class is a skill or combination of skills that trumps in any scenario. Synergy is not the key word here, but damage. I could synergize my Technician with my teammate's EMP Grenade but that is not what ends a match (or player). If I combined my Smokescreen with my Cheapshot to ensure success and increased damage it might KO, whereas this does not happen in non-offensive skills.

Bounty Hunter being the dummy here has skills that synergize for damage but nothing more unless you count the technical Reflex Boost restoring a Field Medic as 1.

As you said it is harder to spam stats with 2 stat placements, and I agree there. I do not agree to approaching the dead zone of 25% per stat and rebutting with "100% or 50% stats is spamming" when spams are the actions of the user in battle. I will not suggest 100% to 1 stat just yet but if we did concede to that you could have players of all types instead of players all trying to exploit the only option they are left with (Focus for example). I will end on the note that damage is what ruins balance instead of synergy or stats.
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
1/27/2013 23:16:55   
theholyfighter
Member

I'm going to ask some stupid questions...
1. What's synergy?
2. I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you talking about the limited stats needed on a stat to but the other stat points all on one stat?
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
1/27/2013 23:36:27   
Stabilis
Member

^

Synergy is like the Power Rangers. They are good solo, but even better together. When they work together they have 1 powerful result instead of many small results.

When Omega is live and you can change the stat points on an item, you can only place 40% of all of the item's stat points into 1 single stat. So if I had 40 stat points on a gun, I can only place 16 stat points on 1 stat... like Strength.
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
1/27/2013 23:52:34   
theholyfighter
Member

Is 40% a number u guessed?

I guess there'd be 20 points for a lvl capped gun. If it's 40% it'd be too low, because it's just 8 points at most to put it in a certain stat.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
1/28/2013 8:53:06   
Stabilis
Member

^

Yep, 40% is the developer's actual number unless they change it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
1/28/2013 11:13:04   
rayniedays56
Member

The question I ask is this...


What difference is 10% when we have 40%?


Sure, I understand that 10% of 20 is 2, so that is just 2 stat points we will not be getting.

This argument also is given to those who say strength dex bh and other combos.

2 stat points guys. Really not much difference in the whole.

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
1/31/2013 0:40:33   
Giras Wolfe
Member

^It's 40/40/20 for all equipment. When you add up the total of stats of all items, including armor, aux, and gun, you're looking at about 80 stat points. With 40/40/20, the most you could get is +36 of your two favorite stats, as well as +16 in your third choice for a helpful stat. If it was 50/50, you could get +44 of your two favorite stats, and nothing else. Imagine a merc with +44 strength and dex, running a max berserker build.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
1/31/2013 0:54:36   
Stabilis
Member

Raynie,

40% and 50% is the difference of not trusting that 2 stats is balanced just by (ir)rationalizing that because 1 stat is imbalanced, that must mean that 2 stats are imbalanced. But this is false and only applies to certain builds that use a stat only 50% of the time.
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
1/31/2013 9:00:18   
theholyfighter
Member

^Btw how'd you know they planned on making it 40%?
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
1/31/2013 9:04:58   
Stabilis
Member

^

In the official EpicDuel channel talking about skill cores.
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
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