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Rage back when get blocked/deflected with rage

 
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2/4/2013 11:43:21   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


Dont find this current system fair.
You always get rage when someone deflects or blocks you, and exactly when you try to unleash a good attack which you earned by getting delfected you get blocked and get nothing back.

I DONT want to make this unblockable or undeflectable.
I only want some rage back, since this system is BROKEN!

Dont come with the regular ''Str builds will have a free one'' since it doesnt.
You only get some rage back which you earned for getting blocked or deflected.

Edit: To prevent people to fail to understand it.
I DONT want the full rage back, only 25 to 30% of my rage bar. NOT ALL!

Moved from ED Suggestions to ED Balance. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 2/4/2013 11:51:10 >
Epic  Post #: 1
2/4/2013 11:46:08   
willendorf
Member

There will be less blocks with new system because of less dex enhancements.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
2/4/2013 11:46:33   
Drianx
Member

You mean you get an empty rage bar right after using rage and getting blocked?

If so, I support this.

If not, I didn't understand a word you said.

EDIT: OK, I got it right, therefore I support.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 2/4/2013 12:14:36 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/4/2013 11:47:21   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


@ Willendorf
And how is that gonna help?

Only because the % of the blocks/deflects are going down does not mean this system will be less broken.

@ Drainx
Currently when you rage bludgeon and you get blocked you rage bar is empty again.
But since you get blocked you should get something back instead of ending with a empty bar.

@ Mecha
Sorry, thought it was more a suggestion thing..
Thanks

< Message edited by Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -- 2/4/2013 11:53:27 >
Epic  Post #: 4
2/4/2013 11:47:28   
Stabilis
Member

In-before-"Strength builds will have a field day with this".

Honestly this would be OK, because blocking even deflecting is a constitute of Dexterity or Technology... the defensive stats. This is an acceptable trump on tanks because they are capable of stopping attack with their stat mix.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
2/4/2013 11:55:10   
Mother1
Member

@ depressed

I think you are forgetting that when you use rage 45% of your opponent's defenses plus any defensive passives your opponent has are ignored. Giving back rage if you are blocked or deflected when your defensive are almost cut in half (even more if the person is attacking you with the kind of attack your defensive passive would protect you against) would be a buff to strength builds for that soul reason.



< Message edited by Mother1 -- 2/4/2013 11:56:17 >
Epic  Post #: 6
2/4/2013 11:56:39   
Remorse
Member

I support,

Makes so seance that you dont gain any rage when your blocked if it happened to be a rage attack.

20-30% is good.
Epic  Post #: 7
2/4/2013 11:57:04   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


quote:

Giving back rage if you are blocked or deflected when your defensive are almost cut in half

It makes the defence you down, but not the % you have to block or deflect during his rage attack.
With that said, it does not give any buff to Str builds.

I knew you were gonna say this, always the same.

Epic  Post #: 8
2/4/2013 12:11:06   
Mother1
Member

@ zeph

Yes it would since what do strength builds do best? Dish out damage and gain rage. The only time they don't gain rage is when they don't attack or get blocked or deflected during rage.

Give back rage when you are blocked or deflected would be buffing strength builds more then others since as I stated they are built for offense and rage helps with offense.

Epic  Post #: 9
2/4/2013 12:18:01   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


They do dmg alot, but that doesnt make you gain rage much.
It only does when you are fighting against a heavy tank, you are aware of the rage system, or arent you?

You get more rage when you do a heavy attack and it hits low.
When you hit high with a high attack, you barely get any rage.

And even so, they deserve something back for getting deflected/blocked since it is ALWAYS like that.
Why is only rage like that?
Lemme answer that, because this system is broken!
Epic  Post #: 10
2/4/2013 12:36:05   
Mother1
Member

@ zeph

Just because you don't gain something back from rage if it is blocked or deflected doesn't mean it is broken. A positive and a negative is needed to make moves balance. The positive for rages for rage are the following

1 ignores 45% of defenses
2 shuts off defensive passives for that attack

The negatives are this

1 it can still be blocked or deflected
2 if it is blocked or deflected there is no rage gain with it.

As you can see while you claim it is broken it is actually in balance with positives and negatives. Giving you the ability to gain rage even when you are raging because of a block or deflect in not only not logical (since you are using all of your rage in one attack and it is already at the max), but will overpower rage especially with those builds that rage quick which are strength builds more then others.

Epic  Post #: 11
2/4/2013 12:42:28   
Drianx
Member

quote:

shuts off defensive passives for that attack

I'm not sure this is true. Can you post a link to an official statement?
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
2/4/2013 12:44:12   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


quote:

if it is blocked or deflected there is no rage gain with it.

And this is where it turns broken.
You need to get something back or it wouldnt be fair in the least. If your rage gets blocked you have most likely 5% chance to still win the battle (in a 1vs1).
This means:
Rage blocked = Automatic Loss
And that is why this sytem is broken.

quote:

Giving you the ability to gain rage even when you are raging because of a block or deflect in not only not logical

Not logical?
Is deflecting an aux logical?
Is deflecting a deadly laser logical?
Is letting it rain pumpkins by smashing on the ground logical?
Not everything is logical in this game, so dont go there.

quote:

but will overpower rage especially with those builds that rage quick which are strength builds more then others

Nope, it are Mercs with Adrenaline.
And since high dmg does not give you any rage it is not true in the least.

@Drainx
Yes thats true, rage and critical attacks ignore passive armors like Mineral armor but also Defence matrix and so on.

Edit:
Added the raining pumpkins part and the reaction on drianx

< Message edited by Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -- 2/4/2013 12:52:20 >
Epic  Post #: 13
2/4/2013 12:55:09   
Drianx
Member

quote:

Yes thats true, rage and critical attacks ignore passive armors like Mineral armor but also Defence matrix and so on.

I think it is just a rumor. Link?
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
2/4/2013 12:58:37   
Mother1
Member

With rage you are already gaining something since you are ignoring their defenses and there defensive passives are getting shut down for that attack. Being able to gain something back if it fails when you are already gaining defensive passives shutting down and have regular defenses cut in half would OP it as stated. The negatives wouldn't balance the positives.

Also it is logical to deflect a laser believe it or not so with that one you used a bad example. With aux's it only works with half logic.

As for you last example only merc's with high support can pull off a rage 3 without blocks or deflections with max adrenaline. Otherwise it would be strength builds or build with both high strength and support.
Epic  Post #: 15
2/4/2013 12:59:14   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


quote:

Rage attacks are designed to ignore 45% of defense (and yes ... it can stack with reductions from Critical Strikes and skills like Cheap Shot). Because the Rage Meter was introduced as counter for tanking, the damage increase will naturally be most noticeable against players with highly-defensive builds. Rage attacks completely ignore the bonus from Hybrid Armor, Mineral Armor and Plasma Armor.
If ignoring 45% of defense and/or resistance gives a damage bonus of less than 10, the rage attack will instead add 10 damage.

Taken from:
Battle mechanics guide, wiki

I guess the defence matrix part is wrong..

Mother

quote:

With rage you are already gaining something since you are ignoring their defenses and there defensive passives are getting shut down for that attack.(1) Being able to gain something back if it fails when you are already gaining defensive passives shutting down and have regular defenses cut in half would OP it as stated(2). The negatives wouldn't balance the positives.

Also it is logical to deflect a laser believe it or not so with that one you used a bad example. With aux's it only works with half logic. (3)

As for you last example only merc's with high support can pull off a rage 3 without blocks or deflections with max adrenaline. Otherwise it would be strength builds or build with both high strength and support(4).


1, that all doesnt matter anymore this they get blocke, does it?
2, also does not matter since you dont do any damage at all since you got blocked
3, How is deflecting a laser logical? Tell me how it looks like, can you make an animation, or have a vid or something?
What do you mean with half logic? It aint logic at all.
4, Strength builds dont get rage any faster then any other build, all at the 4th turn.



< Message edited by Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -- 2/4/2013 13:06:42 >
Epic  Post #: 16
2/4/2013 13:36:28   
Stabilis
Member

Whoa you guys are over-complicating things. All rage does is ignore 45% of a total defence, and ignores passive armour skills.

So if I were to attack a player with 44 Resistance, I would exclude 20 points of Resistance before the damage calculations.

If I were to attack a player with 54 Resistance including a level 10 Plasma Armor, I would exclude 20 points of Resistance because Plasma Armor is irrelevant during rage so 45% of 44 is 20 Resistance excluded before damage calculations.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/4/2013 13:37:24 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
2/5/2013 1:06:57   
NDB
Member

What the?! This is almost the same suggestion I posted a while ago. Or does nobody remember it...

quote:

What if support increased the amount of defenses ignored with rage instead of increasing the speed in which you obtained Rage?

Normally, when you get blocked or deflected, you gain extra Rage points equal to the amount of damage blocked or deflected, as if the defender had enough defenses to actually negate so much damage.

My suggestion is to let it so there is the same affect on Rage. Not only will it make up for a blocked or deflected Rage (not really, but it will help), even normally, when you aren't blocked or deflected, I think you should still receive Rage points.

Example: You Rage Strike for 30 damage, but is blocked. Next turn, you Rage meter is up 30 points +the amount of damage still negated (like in the example below) instead of being reset at 0.
OR you are fighting a player with 40 defense. You Rage Strike (Physical Damage) for 20 damage+18 from the defense ignored=38 damage. Next turn, your Rage Meter is up 22 points, because the defender still negated 22 damage.


So players get Rage even when they don't get blocked on Rage. That will make it not just geared for Strength builds.
Plus, I also suggested this too to help Strength Builds not get a buff.

quote:

So, here's how it works. If both players have equal support, the base Rage would be 45% ignore, like how it is currently.
With every support advantage of 5, your ability to ignore increases by +1% and the opposing players would decrease by 1%. The cap will be 30%-60% (in order to reach the cap, you need to have a 75 support advantage over the opponent)
That way, strength users, with less support, ignore less, and as a result are not so strong, while support players ignore more.

Example:
Player A: 40 support, 30 defenses.
Player B: 70 support, 30 defenses.

When Player A uses Rage on Player B, he/she will only ignore 39%=11.7 or 12 more damage.
When Player B does, he/he will ignore 51%= 15.3 or 16 (ED round-ups) or 16 more damage.


How was that not reasonable?
Epic  Post #: 18
2/5/2013 19:33:02   
beku
Member

strenght doesn't help with rage gain, if you hit 50 and only 10 got blocked, you'll get almost no rage increase, but if you have 35 dmg and hit for 1, it is logical u're gonna get mad, rage exists to help balancing the overpowered tanks, not to buff them.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
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