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Modified Nerfer Skills

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2/10/2013 12:48:08   
Stabilis
Member

A buff and a nerf at the same time to nerfer skills (Smokescreen, Malfunction, Intimidate):

When you use a nerfer skill, you do not Strike, but the effect lasts for 1 more turn.

The reasoning behind this is because some Strength players use these in builds meant for fast deaths while trying to add rage as fast as possible to ensure those fast deaths (or try to). Since these skills use Strike, they gain enormous volumes of rage quickly. Unless rage is modified instead, it would be recommended to remove the Strength aspect from nerfers, while still allowing the players to absorb as much (and possibly even more) of the results from lowering a foe's Dexterity, Technology, or Strength.
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
2/10/2013 13:24:33   
Remorse
Member

How amount making it standard damage for example the toxic grenade except have it a bit higher then the toxic grenade??


But your idea is also good, I support both.
Epic  Post #: 2
2/10/2013 16:43:40   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

Nope even with that strength builds will have an edge with these. I think changing them into the form of EMP's would be better myself. No damage done, no rage gained but the debuff is still there. This way it affects all builds equally.
Epic  Post #: 3
2/10/2013 17:15:00   
TurkishIncubus
Member

Its not a good idea. Debuffs will be very useless. Lets say you reduce average 35 dex-tech this means you will deal +8-9 more dmg. If we assume that match will be +5 turns that you will use the full advantage of debuff. You will have +32-36 more dmg. Depending on your strike dmg lets say 20. You will have +12-16 dmg for +25 energy. It seems waste of energy and that 12-16 dmg will be divided in to 5 turns. So if the match end in 3-4 turns that advantage will be even more less. And i dont understand how this gonna stop, Stun+Zerker-DS+Zerker build.

Although most people think str is OP right now, i dont think str is the real problem. Actually i think str is kind of UP. The real thing makes Str builds stronger than the others is the base primary dmg. [i will gonna make a balance thread about my ideas about balance later but i will explain it in here shortly]. +35-36 for a primary weapon is too high for something you can use every turn without energy or turn cost. Secondary also have +35 dmg but you can use it in every 3 turn. Also aux has only +4 more dmg than primary and you can use it in every 4 turn.

If you look at the most str builds they actually use same or more dex than str. This is mainly because the points you gonna invest on str is not worth the dmg you will get in return. For example 19-23+35 primary dmg and 21-26+35 primary dmg is gonna deal almost same dmg with a berserker. And you are gonna spent 15 stats just to get +3 dmg. Instead of increasing str you can put them into dex or hp and get more block chance or durability.

My idea will be reducing primary dmg to 25 for class specific and 26 for swords but increasing the dmg that str gives.

[This is not the complete balance idea, just wait for my thread to explain it in detail]

< Message edited by TurkishIncubus -- 2/10/2013 17:25:46 >
Epic  Post #: 4
2/10/2013 18:11:19   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

If we assume that match will be +5 turns that you will use the full advantage of debuff. You will have +32-36 more dmg. Depending on your strike dmg lets say 20. You will have +12-16 dmg for +25 energy. It seems waste of energy and that 12-16 dmg will be divided in to 5 turns. So if the match end in 3-4 turns that advantage will be even more less. And i dont understand how this gonna stop, Stun+Zerker-DS+Zerker build.


It is not supposed to stop Maul-Berzerker, it is a modification to make it more universal. Just because some guy is using one of these skills to Strike, this does not exclude those using these skills to shoot or weaken. Malfunction improves by Support and raises Energy damage while lowering deflect chances, which makes it a better catalyst for shooting than Striking.

What if I assume that you are fighting a tank? If your attacks hit 3s before Smokecreen or Malfunction, what difference does it make after? A big difference, especially when including accuracy. Let us pretend that some player with 40 Defense is reducing your Strike to 3 damage. After you use Smokecreen, your damage becomes 10. (3+10+10+10) < (0+10+10+10+10). That extra turn of Smokescreen is also 1 extra turn of melee accuracy, whereas with the normal Smokecreen you have 1 less turn of it.

But again, this is not for Maul-Berzerker or purely Strength nerfing. This is for making the skills more universal for all types of players, rather than just burst players that try to abuse rage by purely attacking. Not all of us prefer to just attack, attack, AND attack.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/10/2013 18:13:43 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
2/10/2013 21:03:31   
Valeman2Reborn
Member

Those skills are well balance after this patch it also made few people lose more now.

What they need be focusing is on Mages Skills mostly that mostly the class that need balancing
Post #: 6
2/10/2013 22:52:34   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

This will never work, simply because it wastes a turn in hope that it pays off down the road. The game now either lasts three turns or twenty and wasting one of those precious three turns would never happen.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
2/10/2013 23:00:46   
Stabilis
Member

^

? This is an attribution to rage, attacking boosts rage points like wildfire, which these skills do. So what is your concern on this thread?
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
2/11/2013 4:03:23   
Remorse
Member

^ Debuffs IMO should always keep the rage giving factor otherwise its no use to ever use it on someone that has a shield since you end up with less energy then the opponent that's shielded cause generally shielding is a lower cost then a high debuff, AND they will most likely have higher defense then they started with before they debuffed.



Without giving rage they would be almost totally useless (obviously some exceptions), against shield opponents anyway.


But your right they do benefit STR builds more because the initial move is a strike!


They could make the initial damage like I said basic damage like the toxic grenades basic damage, only slightly higher.

OR

They could leave as is but sometime in the future add the skill core suggestion I came up with to cast the debuffs using your aux instead of striking.


Allowing those who like to debuff and not have STR to have some more options.




Sometimes nerfs can be avoided these days if they simply add some creative skill cores to make up for other builds have other advantages over others.



But having said that, too much buffing leads to destruction take enhancements for example.


Hopefully they follow a certain balanced line between power, nerfing and buffing.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 2/11/2013 4:04:48 >
Epic  Post #: 9
2/11/2013 8:35:15   
Stabilis
Member

^

quote:

^ Debuffs IMO should always keep the rage giving factor otherwise its no use to ever use it on someone that has a shield since you end up with less energy then the opponent that's shielded cause generally shielding is a lower cost then a high debuff, AND they will most likely have higher defense then they started with before they debuffed.


Somewhat true, although what is the intention of a nerfer? Lower 1 stat. And Intimidate? Improves with Support, lowers offence; no way that skill is meant to counter defence; but offence. Intimidate is not a piercing attack in any build, because Support is not a factor in Strike, and lowering Strength never lowers a defence. So what then? And rage is already a broken feature, benefitting those who purely attack when it should also help anyone counter any tank. I have 21 Defense and 19 Resistance yet I am raged against by the 5th turn because the enemy kept plowing damage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
2/11/2013 8:38:36   
Remorse
Member

^ Yes its meant to counter offense, however taking away the rage gain side of debuffs means it won't really.


One of the main probem with STR builds is you cant afford not to attack versing them, not much anyway.


Thats what makes intim so good, You don't have to sacrifice a turn wasting to lower their offense.


Personally I prefer intim over all debuffs.
Epic  Post #: 11
2/11/2013 8:58:01   
G4m3r
Member

I support this 100%, what about a grenade animation when you use a nerfing skill?
Post #: 12
2/11/2013 10:14:31   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

One of my concerns is that a debuff can outlast a shield, which would make it easier for strength abusing BHs, CHs, and TMs. I would rather see them have the base debuffs raised by like 4 and have it only last the regular three turns.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
2/11/2013 10:21:07   
Stabilis
Member

^

It can outlast a shield, yes, but there is 1 turn of not attacking to use these skills. 1 turn of not attacking, depending on the player, is 1 turn without 3-40 damage and 25-50% rage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
2/11/2013 10:25:51   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

But anyone with a finishing skill such as Massacre can simply wait out the opponents shield.
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
2/11/2013 10:35:59   
EpicIsEpic
Member

that would make massacares and supercharges OP
Post #: 16
2/11/2013 10:55:37   
Stabilis
Member

^

1 turn more of -5 to -10 on protection plus an ultimate skill is overpowered because...?

And you must remember, Energy Shield and Defense Matrix are 3 turns, Technician Reflex Boost and Commander are 4 turns. If using Defense Matrix or Energy Shield you can simply time the skill to be used 1 turn into Malfunction or Smokescreen, cancelling out the bonus that the nerfer skill grants. Just like that *snaps fingers*.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
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