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Delta Knight Under-powered? may be an active core can help?

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3/23/2013 20:17:54   
priest_hidan
Member

So guys what do you think of the current Delta Knight's status? I feel compared to something like Platinum Pride, its waaay too under powered. It's supposed to be the most significant item of Delta phase. A permanent rare item representing a significant phase of the game. I was thinking that since we see many tech and dex abusers, it should have an active core that decreases the opponent's dex and tech by 20 - 30%(may be more may be less?)... may be it seems overpowered... but you can balance it... may be take away the passive... because we are all fighting mages with more than 110 tech and bounty hunters who block a lot because of their shadow arts, high dex, and the fact they can smokescreen which makes your connect chance lowered. an unblockable attack which decreases their stats like that might help?

i am posting this, because i am seeing a lot of threads based on nerfing SA and so on... but if you nerf one something else will take place... so its better to buff something that's pretty underpowered.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/23/2013 20:33:21   
Ranloth
Banned


 Platinum's Pride drains rage and attacks, whilst this reduces Support for 3 turns. It's hard to compare them since they are useful in different situations. Whether it's "supposed" to be most significant item of Delta phase or not is irrelevant, that doesn't mean its power should be higher than other cores'.
Next, amount of Str/Dex/Tech abusers does not contribute towards the power of the Support reducing core. Only because there aren't as many players using Support (lolnope), it doesn't mean that its power should be any higher because balance doesn't work in such way.

Core that takes away Dex or Tech by 20-30%? That'd be Omega core which targets highest base stat unlike Delta which always will target Support. Mind you, they have received a buff; Delta had 25% and now it's 30%, which is always something. Unblockable attack because of high Dex players/SA? Remember that PP's Fury has to drain rage therefore it must be unblockable. But what I don't get - why are you comparing an active core to a passive core? They are balanced in completely different ways to each other. As long as they land an attack on you (in regards to Curse Aura), then there's 13% chance that they will get Curse, it's a different case for Delta weapons since they have an active core.

So what really needs buffing in the end? Comparing active core to a passive one is irrelevant because they both work differently. If you want to buff the Curse then it was already buffed the week before. Chance to apply Curse from Delta Knight? 13% is good enough really.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
3/23/2013 20:51:03   
priest_hidan
Member

@trans i am not comparing the active to passive. comparing the two armors. also, the fact its a really significant item, has everything to do with it being one of the strongest armors. and strength in omega is only determined by cores. if your remember correctly, when the delta knight came out it was THE strongest armor in game, a little better than the founder armor. there were reasons why people bought it. again, i am not comparing active with a passive core, but i am comparing two armors. its THE delta knight armor and it should be powerful with unique core because as i have mentioned earlier it was suppose to be that way. the 13% chance to reduce 30% of support is a joke at this moment because 1) 13% is way too low. 2) if you think does any significant damage to the support abusers, you're wrong. most support abusers have 100+ sup and after 30% reduction they end up with 70+ stat... which is still a lot!. 3) if the person is not a support abuser, then its very likely that support does not matter in his/her game tactics.

also, you don't have Delta Knight, do you? :P

< Message edited by priest_hidan -- 3/23/2013 20:54:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/23/2013 21:04:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 But only because it was 'special', it doesn't mean it can have power over other Armors. This is Omega, not Delta. Big difference. Items are equal. It should be powerful =/= it must be powerful, again, this is Omega so the difference is the art and cores, nothing else.
30% is a joke or 13%? If former then it's fine as it is because it works well with the new promo and is on par with Omega Override. If the latter then it's also fine because it's a passive core, not an active one. Huge difference.

Support abusers you say? The more they abuse, the more effective it is. Remember, it's a passive core. And cores aren't supposed to have a huge power either but give you an aid in battle, not game-changing advantage (such as enhancements did prior to Omega). 100 Support thus reducing my -30 isn't much? You cannot expect much because it's a core (whether active or passive), and it isn't supposed to have much power. As you can see by looking at Malf/Smoke, they reduce a bit above it usually and they cost EP to use, have requirements and need skill points to get better. Cores are once per battle, yes, but that's how they are intended to work.

If person isn't an abuser then it's not effective? Neither is Omega Override because it'll be very low debuff yet people still use it. Sometimes it's just like a normal Strike (if you're outta options) but instead, you can debuff if you have Delta weapons or Armor can do it for you 13% of the time. Remember, it's a passive so % cannot be high.

quote:

also, you don't have Delta Knight, do you? :P

Irrelevant. This is Omega so it's a case of understanding how the core works only + unique art. I have Delta weapons instead since I've bought the promo.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
3/23/2013 21:19:31   
CN2025
Member

True but i would like the curse to go back to -20 every time becuz its passive and all :P
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
3/23/2013 21:23:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 -20 is ineffective. %-based makes it effective on higher Support thus making it useful for Suppot builds. Currently, players need 64+ Support for Curse to be equal to that of the old one thus anything below 64 Support will be less effective than old Curse. But anything above it will be even more effective. There are players who abuse Support to that of ~150 (base!) so you will take away -45 Support at least, over twice as much as before. :P

Not mentioning that as the level cap raises, people will invest more in certain stats thus it'll end up being more effective in the long run.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
3/23/2013 21:25:52   
CN2025
Member

i still want cursey - 20 cuz not so many supps around any more and my curse is like -6 on normal players T_T

Signature removed. Please do not use your signature more than once per page. For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Signatures. ~eVentus

< Message edited by Eventus -- 3/23/2013 21:52:25 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
3/23/2013 21:32:07   
priest_hidan
Member

@trans in omega only the stats are meant to be equal. nowhere it was said that omega is about arts... but, if you say the difference is in cores. then, it would be great if a core makes good difference. yes omega is about how core works... and for this one it does not work well. and also no, for 100+ support, reducing 30 is not much at all. ESPECIALLY, since it has only 13%. and also it's not on-per with omega override. i have no problem with omega override because first it deals damage and second, it targets the highest base. reducing highest base by 30% is much more beneficial than having only 13% chance of reducing a certain skill. if you reduce the support of a str bh, they could not care any less. oh don't forget, it has only 13% of reducing support if and only if someone strikes you. guess what? on average people strike 1-3 times... they mostly use ranged items. and for support mercs, their support benefits the range multi attack before which they use either bunker buster or aux. which means, if it had any effect on the support abusers, the effect comes into play only after their deadliest attacks are over. all in all, it is VERY under powered and useless at this moment. Trust me, i have been using the armor since the day it came out and did not unequip it. i have been all 6 classes. i know about its effect better than anyone who only guesses its effect based on numbers. its use in game is not as it once was. it was really good before fore defense and it was unique as it was suppose to be. but it is horrible now.

its also bad for ED's reputation. the armor was advertised as once in a blue moon opportunity for a great power hence its ultra rare. but, if that promise is not kept, it would only show that ED will nerf an item in the future just to make the customer by a new item.

also if you think omega override is up then create a discussion... but just because people are using an item despite the fact its up does not justify the up of another item.

i am suggesting an active core in the active core slot which does around 15% - 20% dex and tech reduction with may be 70-80% unblockable attack.

< Message edited by priest_hidan -- 3/23/2013 21:40:02 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/23/2013 21:35:11   
CN2025
Member

Then the frost bite ausra shud get buffed so no.

plus the delta weps back when delta first formed has an active curse core like my frost slayer sword.

no changes needed..

still want my cursey passive -20 :P

Signature removed. Please do not use your signature more than once per page. For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Signatures. ~eVentus

< Message edited by Eventus -- 3/23/2013 21:52:34 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
3/23/2013 21:37:03   
priest_hidan
Member

^CN205 whether or not some other item needs a buff is irrelevant in this thread. also the thread is about delta knight armor, if you have misread. i am not arguing for delta weps.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/23/2013 21:43:21   
CN2025
Member

Man u read like every thing twice dont u .
u find every flaw some one makes to prove ur point :P

Signature removed. Please do not use your signature more than once per page. For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Signatures. ~eVentus

< Message edited by Eventus -- 3/23/2013 21:52:40 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
3/23/2013 21:49:21   
priest_hidan
Member

^CN2025 lol... you have been arguing for the wrong stuff... and i know really well what i am arguing for... because i think there are very few ppl who hasn't unequipped the DK since the day it was released. i am not trying to prove my point because of someone else's flaw... but i am trying because i believe there is an unbalance and second, i think buffing it can make other op builds less powerful. it could be a game changer without being op.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
3/24/2013 1:36:21   
Rayman
Banned


 Armors aren't Supposed to be OP OR UP, Theres no need to give a new core to delta armor, it doesn't make sense, just wait new cores and apply it yo your armor.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
3/24/2013 2:11:10   
Midnightsoul
Member

I would like to see if Curse is an active core on Delta Knight and anyone that has the armor gets 7000 creds
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/24/2013 3:14:33   
priest_hidan
Member

@Rayman what kind of logic is that? Of course, like any item in the game, armors are suppose to be OP or UP or balanced. Delta Knight is UP. Way too UP. Let me guess (even though I just checked your char page), you don't have the Delta Knight armor, do you? :P ...everyone who does not have the armor is completely fine with how the armor is. they are loving it. they are saying things in a way as if they have been using it for years. this really needs to stop in the balance forum because it diverts attention that is highly needed for balancing the game.

@Midnightsoul well, Curse isn't that helpful imo. something better would be good. that chairman's fury is way too strong compared to Delta. but i did not get it because of the dull looks :P.
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
3/24/2013 3:34:35   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

lol, so what? i have delta knight and i use it some times, it is helpful depending on what build you are using, you bought it knowing exactly what you are getting, so there is no reason complaining about it, just deal with it.

with my build platinum's pride is not useful so it is not considered powerful to me, to be honest generator is wayyy better than chairman's uppercut
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
3/24/2013 3:46:24   
CN2025
Member

quote:

So guys what do you think of the current Delta Knight's status? I feel compared to something like Platinum Pride, its waaay too under powered. It's supposed to be the most significant item of Delta phase. A permanent rare item representing a significant phase of the game. I was thinking that since we see many tech and dex abusers, it should have an active core that decreases the opponent's dex and tech by 20 - 30%(may be more may be less?)




Delta knight or any delta related items was intended to reduce support not dex or tech since theres malf and smoke so maybe ur idea could work but instead decreasing curse .



< Message edited by CN2025 -- 3/24/2013 3:47:38 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
3/24/2013 10:27:47   
priest_hidan
Member

@Trizz Delta Knight was always meant to be a highly defensive armor. It was one of the most defensive at that time. I bought it knowing that it was that strong. Now it's like any other armor in the game. That's called diminishing its quality. You might be okay with it and not think that its not UP and use generator more than chairman's fury... it does not matter if you do that because DK was always supposed to be a highly defensive armor. Now in omega if you close the enhancement gap in armors, it is only logical to give this promo item an extra boost to separate it from others, as it was always meant to be. Now let that be a defense boost, % reduction boost, offense boost... something helps more than what it has now.

@CN2025 If an item needs change, it can always be changed. Especially if it's a positive one. For example, the omega override was buffed.... nothing is set in stone.

< Message edited by priest_hidan -- 3/24/2013 10:28:46 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/24/2013 10:32:22   
Ranloth
Banned


 Delta Knight was highly defensive Armor, now it's Omega so it's the difference of art and cores, nothing else. That isn't a ground for a needed buff. Whether DK was meant to be highly defensive Armor in Delta, it doesn't matter; and neither it was; I wasn't using DK yet I could kill people with it due to different build.

quote:

it is only logical to give this promo item an extra boost to separate it from others

No. Promos aren't supposed to have more power than in-game items. They may have unique cores but not bonus power on top of it.

quote:

For example, the omega override was buffed.... nothing is set in stone.

So was Curse which affected Delta Knight..
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
3/24/2013 10:45:08   
zion
Member

Its a useful passive core and you can use generator as your active core. Not being able to use generator with PP is a big disadvantage. Neither is OP/UP, they are both useful. Furthermore, its a very good looking armor and if you're paying attention, that's pretty important these days...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
3/24/2013 11:05:48   
priest_hidan
Member

@Trans where did you get the rule for that? Promo items have always been the most powerful ones. That's the whole point of paying for it. The point of omega is they will have powerful unique cores. Will you buy an item with a core that takes 20 hp from you? that's a pretty unique core... but its pointless. people have always bought items because of its power and DK's power was a reason why many many bought it and it has to regain its status. Also it does not matter if the boost to curse affected DK... its still not enough. It is under powered by far! It has THE weakest core.

@noiz you are again someone who is saying its balanced without ever owning it.... logically people who does not have the armor does not want it to be powerful or rather wants it to stay under powered.

< Message edited by priest_hidan -- 3/24/2013 11:06:48 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/24/2013 11:10:28   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

where did you get the rule for that? Promo items have always been the most powerful ones. That's the whole point of paying for it.

No. No it's not anymore. Promos are to have power to that of normal items, there is to be no Varium advantage anymore. Promos can have unique cores but not with a power boost that would make it a Varium advantage. Varium is only a shortcut, it's been said by Devs already.

quote:

Also it does not matter if the boost to curse affected DK... its still not enough. It is under powered by far! It has THE weakest core.

Right. So boost doesn't matter because it wasn't enough? Don't expect more. 30% is already high. People abuse Support to up to 150 even, curse will take away -45, isn't that good? It's passive for you, not an active core.

quote:

you are again someone who is saying its balanced without ever owning it....

That's irrelevant. Only because you don't own an item, it doesn't make you wrong, and vice versa.
AQ Epic  Post #: 22
3/24/2013 11:24:05   
priest_hidan
Member

@Trans the whole game is based on power and advertising it... Of course power matters the most. it still does. Azarel's will? Its a different kind of power. Cores are not stat power... and with that logic, DK should have a stronger core. Just because it has a passive does not mean it cannot have an active one in the future.

Also it is relevant when I say someone trying to say the armor is balanced without ever owning it because they simply dont want the power up for the armor because they can't get it. it's the whole reason for their argument. if there is a sweet benefit in the future, they will simply not get it :P That is the whole reason for them to defend the armor's current status.
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
3/24/2013 11:28:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 The game is based on power and advertising, right. Why are you comparing power in-game to marketing? <.< Azrael's Will has unique core and it's different type of power, yes, but that doesn't mean it should have even more power over other cores (look pre-nerf Azrael's Will). No, with that logic it should not have more power. It's a stat core and is on par with new Botanical Promo which adds 30% Support. It was buffed so both promos can coutner each other. Likewise with Omega Override, but that targets highest base Stat so isn't as reliable.

No, it isn't relebant whether you own the item or not. It's called not being biased. Only because you own the Armor, it doesn't mean you're right about a buff and other person not owning it is wrong because they don't have it. Likewise, I don't have the Armor but I have Delta weapon (Staff and Sword). "That is the whole reason for them to defend the armor's current status." - or.. just knowing what is acceptable in terms of power? It's a core, not a skill. Cores are supposed to aid you, not give you a major advantage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 24
3/24/2013 12:45:05   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 @Trans.
Totally wrong. This game is mostly based on luck.
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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