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Would Love to Hear Dev's Response

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4/2/2013 12:55:45   
frogbones
Banned


 So Titan, NW, Balance Team, and/or Rabble,

Could you please explain why there are currently only 2 builds in 2v2 (Support Mercs and 5 Focus _________s), and explain your statements regarding Omega providing more build options, aka, variety?

Because of your decisions in how skills and stats work, Omega has brought only two things: the addition of Cores and the preponderance of 5 focus builds.

Essentially, you have turned this game into one centered around Robot damage.

If a player does not have a robot or chooses to not use one as the centerpiece of his/her build (i.e., not being 5 Focus), they are most definitely at a competitive disadvantage (with a few exceptions).

Why have you done this?

More importantly, do you plan on fixing it?

Will players ever be able to have Creative builds and remain Competitive?






< Message edited by frogbones -- 4/2/2013 12:58:11 >

_____________________________

Can't stand what ED has become, and every 5 focus zombie only helps to stagnate this game further.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/2/2013 13:06:16   
ansh0
Member

Finally someone on the forums not blinded by their winrate of their 5 focus build.


I hear you bro.

I tried focus.

I literally tried to use it but I couldn't.

A) TM is a pathetic class for focus builds.

B) Boring as crap

I am now using a high HP-hyper offensive build which does reasonably well.

I miss beta and gamma D:

< Message edited by ansh0 -- 4/2/2013 13:12:22 >
Epic  Post #: 2
4/2/2013 13:10:55   
EpicIsEpic
Member

This is like complaining about mercs in the begining of omega. They got fixed in the next patch so just wait and see. And yes i have noticed that you have to be a 5 foucus to get a postive win/loss ratio. But like i said before wait and see. Do NOT rage what was stated in forum rules so please calm down and be pationed.
Post #: 3
4/2/2013 14:27:16   
  RabbleFroth
Member

Definitely aware of this. Going to be making pushes to take some of the less strategic skills in the game and make them a little more interesting.
Post #: 4
4/2/2013 14:29:29   
ReconnaisX
Member

Personally, I want Health and Energy to increase by 2 points per stat point again. Then I could truly make some creative high health builds.
I use a 5 Focus build and while that has a good win rate, it is boring. Seriously. My Support build was fun before they nerfed it, though.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/2/2013 14:29:36   
sleddyboy3
Member

Answer: Because you all complained about the other useable builds being too op.
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 6
4/2/2013 14:50:54   
frogbones
Banned


 Thanks for responding, Rabble. I do very much appreciate it.

Here's to hoping ED becomes varied and fun again.



EDIT @ Rabble:

Or what about making Focus modifiers not so powerful?

< Message edited by frogbones -- 4/2/2013 15:37:58 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/2/2013 14:59:00   
Ranloth
Banned


 @frogbones
Since HP scales slower and so do stats, how about Focus gives +5 damage instead of +6? Focus 5 would give +25 instead of +30. Although less damage = more tank players but you can still deal high damage and forgoe defence, thus variety exists (or will).
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
4/2/2013 15:09:23   
  Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED


 @Frog, honestly not playing dumb here but when you say "Focus Mods" are you referring to the Bot damage done by 5 Focus? or Mod players who use Focus.. ?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/2/2013 15:23:05   
Leprechaun
Member

And ALL the dex builds in 1v1??? I mean its HIT hard, block or get hit 3, and hit EAVEN HARDER. Its all dex builds do >o>
Post #: 10
4/2/2013 15:30:22   
ansh0
Member

^Bro, which game are you playing?

All I see is focus-tech.
Epic  Post #: 11
4/2/2013 15:32:45   
Leprechaun
Member

All I see is Dex builds. That's cuz im 26 maybe :D
Post #: 12
4/2/2013 15:36:53   
frogbones
Banned


 All the dex builds lmao!

Any @ trans, yeah maybe something like that. Would have to see numbers; the reduction would need to be big enough to dissuade players from choosing 5 focus, but balanced enough to leave 5 focus a viable build...
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
4/2/2013 15:38:36   
Ranloth
Banned


 It's basically one damage less per Focus, so each Bot attack would deal 5 less damage if you have Focus 5. This would still make it viable build but perhaps give some attention to others with similar amount of power. And "new OP" build with SS and IA would be beatable for players (it is, but some are complaining and want SS nerf so you see where I'm coming from).
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
4/2/2013 15:45:32   
Leprechaun
Member

Are the focus build that strong (Im level 26 so not much of them here. My 5 focus seems to not work that good)?

< Message edited by Leprechaun -- 4/2/2013 15:49:04 >
Post #: 15
4/2/2013 15:50:43   
frogbones
Banned


 ^ Once you get to levels 32-35 and you enter a 2v2 match, the amount of 5 focus builds is staggering.

Why?

Cuz it's that good .... (and easy to make).
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
4/2/2013 15:53:19   
Leprechaun
Member

Oh :D
I just made one so I can see my Bunny Bot THAT I WUW as often as I can :D
Post #: 17
4/2/2013 15:53:31   
ansh0
Member

@frogbones

And there is absolutely no counter it.

< Message edited by ansh0 -- 4/2/2013 15:54:10 >
Epic  Post #: 18
4/2/2013 15:57:47   
Xx.Nemesis.xX
Member

Well the reason why 5 focus builds are dominant is because of 3 main things:

We the players asked for every other build to be nerfed into oblivion.
Also It provides enough damage and defense to nullify creativity (example: low strength, or low support)
As a final reason (I don't think I am the first to notice this) the defense and resistance scaling is supremely low.
I mean, a tech mage can hit high 30's on any class but cyber (or themselves of course)
As I see it; if defenses were higher (beta stage just about) then there wouldn't be a need to nerf so many options.

Example:A strength merc: If they decide to abuse strength, So what? My dexterity build(hypothetically with higher defenses) can reduce his damage so it would be a fair fight.
Maybe even cause the merc to try adding more tactical moves in his build other than a glass cannon DS and Zerker

~Lemon
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
4/2/2013 16:02:56   
frogbones
Banned


 Yup. It's the jack-of-all-trades build with zero downside.

So while most if its attacks are "average," it actually get a huge BONUS for having all its base stats similar.

EDIT @ Above:

Frankly, I'm fed up with the "we asked for it" excuse. It's their game, their Balance Team, their testers. And as the game makers, they should ALWAYS be the most knowledgeable about it.

It shouldn't take the players to point out, for example, that the original Tac Mercs would be OP, or that the original Infernal Andriod would be OP, or that or that the original BMs would be OP, or that .......

... you get my drift.

< Message edited by frogbones -- 4/2/2013 16:09:05 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
4/2/2013 16:03:00   
ale6300
Member

@ansh0 5 Focus Build Can Counter Any build Without Problem this the difference with all other builds, iam using that build in all delta with a bounty hunter, and if You know how to use right (at least with bounty hunter) can be Extremely Powerful, and the only weaken for a Focus Build is Another Focus build used for other experienced player.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 21
4/2/2013 17:08:36   
sleddyboy3
Member

@frogbones: I'm not understanding how "we asked for it" is an excuse. It's a fact, pure and simple.



AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 22
4/2/2013 17:19:52   
Mother1
Member

@ frogbones

you forgot the staff listens to the players in the forums as well. many of the ideas on balance and suggestions are put into the game because players suggested or complained about it.

Look at the beginning of omega. People complained about strength builds the staff saw it on the balance checker and boom they made nerfs to strength. Then the golden yeti tournament started and they saw support was running rampant along with people complaining about it and boom support got a nerf.

Now something tells me that focus will get the next nerf since people are complaining about it.
Epic  Post #: 23
4/2/2013 17:40:53   
frogbones
Banned


 ^
Let's say there are 100 things/features/changes that we as players collectively want for ED. And let's assume the devs hear or see all 100 of them. Obviously they aren't gonna implement them all; they have to use their professional discretion as to which ones would be balanced steps in the right direction.

The way I see it, there are two ways to do it.

1) Do it themselves, through their experience (they made the game, after all) and testers.

or

2) Have the players do it.

All I'm saying is that having the players do it has way more downsides, imo, than upsides. To me, having players essentially balance test the game while paying to play it is abrogating their professional responsibilities.

To be clear, I'm not advising that they ignore player suggestions. I'm saying they need to do a better job balance-wise when implementing the changes, whether player- or developer-driven.



< Message edited by frogbones -- 4/2/2013 17:48:39 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 24
4/2/2013 17:50:16   
  Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED


 While having the Devs/Balance Team cast an eye over features/changes/balance is beneficial because they do have a better understanding of the goings on in the game since as you said, they did create it, having a wide array of balance input FROM the players is also beneficial because there are more players than Devs etc that can see what might need changing etc and report it in the suggestions thread if they feel something may need a change, however big or small it may be. While the Devs have the more professional approach to this, a large number of players is helpful in assisting them.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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