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azrael gun OP

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5/5/2013 22:29:53   
dragnmastrnite
Member
 

 we all know that the Azrael guns are OP for more than obvious reasons. Recently we have seen a large influx of the new OP build: tech mages w/ Maxed out malfunctions that are either strength builds or caster builds.

This solution might work:

1: Make Azrael's will work by chance. A pretty reasonable chance, too, such as 50-60% this will more than likely get people breathing room when faced w/ the forced strike.

2: Have a passive armor mod that reduces the chance that any move that skips you succeeds in skipping you by x percent. i'm thinking 5%

3: for everyone defending w/ the "I paid for this" I will raise your argument and say the Stun Cannon and Stun Blaster guns (remember those?) have a higher chance to stun. 5% stun chance may have been cool in previous stages but this is omega and quite frankly, I know a lot of people paid for those guns too since they only came when you buy 10K varium.

4: azrael's will is meant to be a move that virtually skips their turn at the cost of taking damage. so the move should add some additional damage to the incoming forced strike by x percent . this works because it not only contributes to the move's purpose and nature but it also is countered by the fact that there are so many mods and bot specials that make STRIKES specifically either worse or better. if there are any complaints about strength builds abusing this forced strike counter, then you should think twice before calling azrael's will and besides, strength builds are ability based and not strike based.

last resort: next year, u can buy them in game and dont have to get 10K varium package to get them.
Post #: 1
5/5/2013 23:16:35   
Xendran
Member

1. Less luck, not more
2. Less luck, not more
3. "I paid for this" is a totally invalid excuse anyway. When you agree to the ToS you agree that AE can do anything and everything to any aspect of your account or their game for any reason without informing you. That, and paying for something doesnt mean it gets to be overpowered. This excuse is very commonly used by people in the 7-16 age group.
4. Forced strikes should be unblockable

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/5/2013 23:17:49 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 2
5/6/2013 0:16:21   
The Joker X
Member

^ They still have a chance to crit, so maybe if we make the move unblockable, we should also make the strike not able to crit.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
5/6/2013 3:20:34   
Baron Dante
Member

quote:

Recently we have seen a large influx of the new OP build: tech mages w/ Maxed out malfunctions that are either strength builds or caster builds.


OP? They are quite literally LITTERED with easy to abuse counters, Azrael or not. The only real reason one would ever want to utilize them is FAST KILLS. That doesn't make it an OP build. It makes it a gimmick build.

Give it a time, so more people will start using them, then make a specialized counter to them and reap the wins.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/6/2013 22:30:37   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

we all know that azrael guns are OP for more than obvious reasons.


Mind enlightening me on these reasons? Even if I didn't have azrael's will, I would still say the core isn't OP, and I would simply state that a large portion of these problems appearing with this core are based on the health system and Omega's new battle engine in general.

Making everything based off of luck isn't a great idea. It lets those who don't really deserve a win because they don't bother to think tactically win, simply because they were lucky. This is a huge problem with shadow arts and I have absolutely no reason why the devs never changed the passive, although they did change blocks so people can't get a lucky block with </= 3 HP and win.

I have made a plethora of builds which have beaten glass cannons and other commonly used builds at the same time such as focus BH. TM glass cannons with azrael's will aren't that hard to beat. They can get lucky and crit a couple times in a fight and snag a win, but if you plan right and use a good build, they're pathetically easy to beat. The glass cannon build's success comes from the level advantage and people who simply don't bother trying to counter it, as well as the fact that it's amazingly easy to use.
Epic  Post #: 5
5/6/2013 22:33:25   
ale6300
Member

The problem dont are azrael will, the problem is Support, High Support First turn, Fast Rage, and high Str to keep dealing high dmg, and get a assured Rage on third turn.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
5/7/2013 15:19:53   
doomkiller98
Member

quote:

OP? They are quite literally LITTERED with easy to abuse counters, Azrael or not. The only real reason one would ever want to utilize them is FAST KILLS. That doesn't make it an OP build. It makes it a gimmick build.


LOL Please, if you were a tech mage You would know that its not for "quick kills"

Its the only thing tech mages have going for them right now, And it just happens to be that you can achieve quick kills with it.

Trust me class change to tm and try to make a build thats not caster or "glass cannon". And btw im a tech mage that can only get kills atm using this build and im NOT using azrael's Will (just to let you know). Its hard to be a tm at the moment and i give props to anybody out there who is a tech mage not using caster or glass cannon builds and getting a decent win rate. And caster isnt even that good... atm
Post #: 7
5/7/2013 15:30:46   
Melbourne
Member

quote:

And caster isnt even that good... atm


I am using a caster build with about a 70% win rate right now, I don't think that's weak for someone not even at level cap.

On topic: I would prefer (originally King Frostlich's idea) that it would give you a set amount of rage after you are forced to strike.

< Message edited by XMelbourneX -- 5/7/2013 22:38:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
5/7/2013 18:40:13   
Baron Dante
Member

doomkiller: Except that... you know. I am an a TM. I've used the builds for months. For quick kills.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/7/2013 18:50:31   
doomkiller98
Member

So you do get my point? tech mages only have those 2 builds right now NOTHING else works on the tech mage class other than casting and Str/supp Build :)

20 dollars xendran whips up a 80% win rate build without using caster or "glass cannon" :P
Post #: 10
5/7/2013 20:18:28   
Xendran
Member

quote:

20 dollars xendran whips up a 80% win rate build without using caster or "glass cannon" :P


Already tried it, ended up reverting to a tech spam plasma bolt burst damage 2v2 build. It's not a glass cannon, but it gets almost all of its damage from looping plasma bolts.
I don't have azrael, and regardless of what people say, not having one absolutely obliterates your win rate in 1v1. It's also borderline impossible to win a daily against somebody using it if you don't have one.

I've gone through stat abuse of each stat, 50/50 2 stats, 33/33/33 3 stats, at all focus levels with many skill combinations.
The most powerful one i've come up with is a 3 focus 72HP plasma bolt looper that manages to keep poison damage at 8. My bot damage is only 2 less than 5 focus, so i still have decent phys in the form of Plant Punch and Bludgeon.

MAGE TIP: You can ramp up your tech and get the same bot damage at 4 focus as you can at 5. 19+17+20 vs 23+17+16. Both end up in 56.
3 focus ends you up with 25+17+12, which is 54. You will still always do 8 poison damage with this setup.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 5/7/2013 20:23:21 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
5/7/2013 20:23:40   
kosmo
Member
 

 Try to mix caster and focus and u will have the best builds for tech mages.You can get insane damage and good defences when using some good focus and malf/bolt/SC
Epic  Post #: 12
5/7/2013 20:24:24   
Xendran
Member

@Kosmo: Read my post above yours, i've edited it. You want 3 or 4 focus for a mage if you use a staff, not 5.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 13
5/7/2013 21:19:13   
doomkiller98
Member

Problem is i dont have the new bot so i dont rlly have a choice but to use glass cannon without azrael

Ive tried insane tech bolt looping today didn't have too much luck cause i have no other type of damage I need that bot for poison!
Post #: 14
5/7/2013 21:26:53   
Cyber Dream
Member

Is it the gun that is oped? Or all of the same builds that just happen to have the same gun. State your reasons on why the gun is so oped. Im pretty sure its not the gun but all of the same builds.
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
5/7/2013 21:33:58   
Xendran
Member

Cyber: Can you think of any reason to NOT use Azrael's Will?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 16
5/7/2013 21:35:59   
doomkiller98
Member

I think the gun is just ridiculously OP Always have, I just think that it should be so the strike cant be blocked or add some active core that resembles it and can be bought without having to buy a promo IDK its Just the gun is just TOO good!!!

Makes me think if we even have a balance team anymore...


~Doom


EDIT: Xen is right why would you not use it.... Its ALWAYS useful maybe that's why its OVER PERFORMING (Not gonna say "Over Powered") cause you can use it effectively whenever you want..

< Message edited by doomkiller98 -- 5/7/2013 21:38:24 >
Post #: 17
5/7/2013 21:45:50   
Xendran
Member

I still am 100% firm on my stance: Azraels Will in reality is only overpowered because there are no true alternatives to it. Yet. That's likely to change pretty soon.

I do still think that Forced Strike should have a 0% block rate and 0% crit rate though
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
5/7/2013 22:43:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

20 dollars xendran whips up a 80% win rate build without using caster or "glass cannon" :P


Actually got a build that is about 80% win rate and isn't glass cannon or caster (Unless you consider 26 minimum defense and 28 minimum res to be glass cannon). It's a semi-strength high-HP and high-field medic build which is flexible to combat multiple different opponents. In most cases, I can beat glass cannons with this build given they don't crit more than once.

@Xendran: Agreed. Some of the things complains as "OP," such as infernal android, aren't as overpowered as they're made out to be. The fact that anyone can get infernal android for a decent price at any time makes a slightly-overpowered bot into an "extremely OP" bot. I would bet that if IA was a 10k-package limited-time promo, there would be much less attention brought to it.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 5/7/2013 22:46:35 >
Epic  Post #: 19
5/7/2013 23:06:22   
Mother1
Member

@ exploding

Remember when the infernal intridicitor came out and was making crits ignore 75% of defenses? People complained about that being OP when it wasn't available to everyone and I even remember someone (a non varium) wanting to nerf it to the point where it worked just like mark of azreal, lucky strike, thorn assault (before the change in omega) and Jack o fire (again before the change in omega) In other words he wanted it to only work when you crit with strikes.

The point I am trying to make is if something is truly OP (or something that makes you lose too much) people will complain about it being that and want it nerfed so they can win against it.
Epic  Post #: 20
5/8/2013 10:13:09   
doomkiller98
Member

Mother brings up a good point

People just see something good and then BOOM nerfff nerf nerf

This is my first time saying to nerf something EVER Well... except the time I said to Fix (In beta) massacre.. (Massacre didn't need nerfed it needed fixing)



quote:

I still am 100% firm on my stance: Azraels Will in reality is only overpowered because there are no true alternatives to it. Yet. That's likely to change pretty soon.

I do still think that Forced Strike should have a 0% block rate and 0% crit rate though



This ^^^^^

Post #: 21
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