Home  | Login  | Register  | Help  | Play 

TLM needs more variety

  		Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance >> TLM needs more variety
Page 1 of 212>
Forum Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
5/25/2013 3:57:54   
Midnightsoul
Member

Static Smash> Atom Smash
Blood Commander>Field Commander
Blood Lust>Frenzy
Bludgeon>Double Strike
Energy Shield, Technician>Blood Shield
Maul, Overload>Stun Grenade

I understand TLM is "balanced", but it has turned out that they have become extremely boring. The TLMs have only a limited amount of moves to stay competitive and I feel bad for them. I even get bored watching them fight and plus, I haven't been one since the beginning of Delta...

Do you guys think TLM needs a bit of an overhaul?
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
5/25/2013 4:02:46   
Bloodpact
Member

yeah.. they need some adjustments ._. .

Epic  Post #: 2
5/25/2013 5:13:07   
Necromantres
Member

they are good for npc and for survival but they could use some adjustment...It's good that they are balanced now.
Epic  Post #: 3
5/25/2013 7:56:31   
DARK SOUL OF HELL
Member

exactly what i have always been saying.
tlm is out of diversity. plus it is so boring , really really boring .
at least give them a skill that deuffs the opponent .
and if being balanced means u can only get one decent build and it's an extremely boring one , than i don't want to get balanced .

< Message edited by DARK SOUL OF HELL -- 5/25/2013 7:58:11 >
Post #: 4
5/25/2013 8:46:10   
Mother1
Member

@ dark soul

They did have a debuff. However it made them too powerful. Lastly for the game balance > fun builds since fun builds if they aren't balance will get nerfed as it shows in previous balance updates.
Epic  Post #: 5
5/25/2013 10:04:06   
kaiseryeux21
Member

i changed to TLM about a month ago because this is the only class which i haven't still used (also merc) since i started playing this game 3 years ago. I can say that at first, the class is doing fine in 1 vs 1 prior to the nerf on robots. i was having a decent win ratio using 5 focus Max SS and omega yeti. But after the nerf on robot, focus TLM's becomes completely useless. I did try the build for a week and i can't even win against caster mages. Imagine the assimilation plus plasma bolt combo. Even my 29-35+7 resistance cannot contain the damage.

all i can say is that TLM's are completely unusable in 1 vs 1. It is also not anymore effective in jugg because caster mages and smoke hunters can kill us easily. the only battle mode that a TLM can play is in 2 vs 2 using support build. It's a bit fun but rely mainly on crits and first hit. It's what im using right now. I can say that i still enjoy the build but i guess TLM's need more options when it comes to build.
DF Epic  Post #: 6
5/25/2013 10:53:03   
ale6300
Member

@kaiseryeux21 if you are using a SS build with sword are your fail, because with my SS build with atom smasher loop, build can kill these builds without problems and my tlm is lv 31, if you cant defeat these build it is a flaw of your build.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
5/25/2013 10:53:09   
xyzman
Member

quote:

But after the nerf on robot, focus TLM's becomes completely useless. I did try the build for a week and i can't even win against caster mages. Imagine the assimilation plus plasma bolt combo. Even my 29-35+7 resistance cannot contain the damage.

I changed to TLm too, and still remain as a TLM. And what I can say is that TLM now still stand a good chance against casters, I use 5 focus with IA, lvl 7 SS with some points in toxic grenade and I can win against casters most of the time. ANd TLM is not that useless in 1v1, I have like 70% rate now.
However I agree that the class needs diversity, there are not more than 3 builds available for TLM
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
5/25/2013 11:00:32   
ale6300
Member

@xyzman TLM actually are the best tank class and almost impossible to give more variety because of their passives, they had two primary passives, and any other class had that.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/25/2013 11:08:50   
Ranloth
Banned


 That's why change of passives to active skills could be helpful - Dex could be invested into rather than having to forgoe it due to MA giving you defence. Or giving Maul back would be good instead of Stun Grenade but that's another blockable that TLMs would have. What they probably need is a burst damage skill like Bolt or Bunker, but they have Poison which makes it a bit more difficult. Frenzy is also there which can come in handy.

So it's a matter of replacing Stun Grenade with Maul (maybe) and perhaps taking out Double Strike for something new - similar to the likes of Bolt or Bunker but not exactly. Maybe a deflectable skill can "blind" your enemy and effectively reducing their chance to hit for set duration (just like Dex does it) but it'd have % chance to blind & just affecting the connect chance. But since deflectable could mean weak, it'd deal 25% more damage on deflections (so 100% damage = normal, 75% on deflections instead of 50%). This would pay for its effect and give a bit more variety.

Since TLMs are 'Tactical' then giving all sorts of interesting effects could be good. They are a tank class (Frenzy, Reroute, passive Armor) and this would give them a burst damage skill but also a form of defence by being able to lower the opponent's chance to hit.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
5/25/2013 11:22:01   
DARK SOUL OF HELL
Member

all i can say is that tlm need a major change to get them into the lvl of other classes , tlm shouldn't be working only for team battles .
what i suggest is giving them smoke , but since it wil be op with passive armor , they can either debuff that armor or change this skill . But i know that u will say << this will make them similar to BH >> . well maybe they can switch the armor with smoke.
my point is that tlm should have a debuffing skill and i like smoke :P
Post #: 11
5/25/2013 11:27:32   
Midnightsoul
Member

Advance
Lower a small amount of dex and tech of your opponent
Improves: Dex/9 + Lvl/5
(based from a lvl 1 player's stats)

1: 1 point removed
2: 2 points removed
3: 3 points removed
4: 4 points removed
5: 5 points removed
6: 6 points removed
7: 7 points removed
8: 8 points removed
9: 9 points removed
MAX: 10 points removed

This would give TLMs an advantage in battle by being strategical will moves with different elements, but unable to do extremem damage. Numbers are only rough, nothing official.

DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
5/25/2013 11:45:07   
Ranloth
Banned


 Debuff means that MA or Reroute have to go. You cannot have both and a Debuff, whatever it is.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
5/25/2013 14:07:29   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

i dont think that tlm is useful anymore, totally bad. the best build is str/ poison and even that is baad compared to other classes.they dont need a debuff at all. the just need maul instead of stun grenade and maybeberzerker instead of field commander
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
5/25/2013 17:30:52   
edwardvulture
Member

Yeah it sucks how they only have inferior or = skills from other clases.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 15
5/26/2013 6:10:32   
Necromantres
Member

quote:

Yeah it sucks how they only have inferior or = skills from other clases.


It's a bit hard to give new skills to them because you may overpower them. Pasive armor + reroute turn a fenzy for emergencies and poison for tanks add something usefull and with it's synergy and reroute you may op them

It's like thinking to give mercenaries reroute instead of intimidate and a tech buff skill...You would see an op combination, static smash + reroute + bunker+reroute+adrenaline+tech buff...Like the caster back than

Due to tactical mercenary potential it's hard to make them good but still balanced.
Epic  Post #: 16
5/26/2013 10:08:35   
DARK SOUL OF HELL
Member

here's an idea : how about we start discussing and balancing the whole skill tree of tlm as a way to help devs.
now in order to make the class really tactical we should give them some pretty strong skills but on the other hand those skills will also have some disadvantages to those characters . that way they will be really tactical and smart ( or at least that how i see it :P )
and if they are really hard to balance without overpowering them because of the defense skill ( as a main problem ) either remove it or debuff it ..
i mean seriously how is it that a class called tactical don't even has a debuffing skill .
what really makes them tactical? , all their skills are existing in some other class .
Post #: 17
5/26/2013 11:03:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 Debuff doesn't mean it's tactical.. It only means the skill is a must in the build unless it's Intimidate. How is that tactical if pretty much every build has Smoke and Malf, for the respectable class? Tactical means there's variety of skills that have different effects. Some are musts in all skill trees such as: Stun, Heal, 2 passives (if EP/HP regeneration and Armor, it cannot have a debuff), some form of defence against both types of damage, and a Multi. That's 6 skills taken, 6 skills left for variety. TLMs have Poison, Frenzy (HP version of SC), offensive buff and Blood Shield that uses HP (goes with Frenzy).

So what if other classes have similar ones if they are a must to have in each skill tree? Argument of no Debuff meaning it's not tactical is wrong, since only Dex BHs will likely forgoe Smoke, and Casters (Lvl 1 for sake of Assimilation). Yet those with Intimidate don't even use it, does that mean they aren't tactical? Mercenaries are the most versatile, own Intimidate, have a lot of builds (maybe not as good), and you're saying they aren't tactical if they don't have Intimidate in their skill tree? Right.
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
5/26/2013 12:43:22   
DARK SOUL OF HELL
Member

i agrre with the fact that debuffing isn't tactical but i am focusing only on the debuffing .
the skill tree of tlm doesn't work in harmony .
u want tech abuse : all u get is a strong surgical .
u want str abse : all u got is double strike ( blockable and it don't do that much extra dmg ) ( frenzy needs a maul )
u want dex abuse : all u got is the stun grenade ( and this skill really doesn't belong in their skill tree )
u want supp abuse : this is the best u can get but although all u get is a multi ( i am saying it is the best u can get cause u get gd field commander )
okay as for defending :
if u get smoked u can do nothing about it
if u get malfed u can use blood shield ( but really this is really useless , it doesn't grant that much and it takes hp )
if u get intimidated u can field commander but usually you counter intimidate . and from my own experience i can say that intimidate is really helpfull in the battle .
Post #: 19
5/26/2013 12:54:15   
Bloodpact
Member

Yeah it sucks cuz tlm can only counter most think by heal looping basically
ppl complain about it ,but that's all they really have right now.
Epic  Post #: 20
5/26/2013 15:02:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 @DARK SOUL OF HELL
That's why I suggested a replacement for Double Strike which is sort of a debuff but not really, more like an unblockable skill with an effect and a drawback for it. If you could put it on Dex, keep Stun Grenade and wait for passive change (so MA will be active), that'd give more viable Dex builds for TLMs. Or you can take FC out, thus no stat buffing skill, and give them something else. But that'd leave Support builds with one skill which is a no. Best replacement would be DS, and perhaps alter Stun Grenade. Variety doesn't necessarily mean different builds. There are variety of skills already with nice effects (Poison, HP regen skill, Shield using HP, etc.) but the synergy may not be as good, nothing else.

In regards to your post:
Str abuse? Frenzy and DS + you can add in Poison if you want to (always helpful on tanks, especially if you don't go full-Strength abuse but leave some defence).
Dex abuse? You've covered it.
Tech abuse? SS + Bot + Poison works fine. Only because a skill doesn't improve by Tech, that doesn't render it useless, especially with the fact Tech is a defensive stat (so you won't have great offence).
Support abuse? FC + Multi + Heal could do for a nice loop & damage.

Defence:
If you get Smoked, use a Bot or leave it. You have a passive Armor for a reason and get up to -11 damage less from Physical attacks, passively. Other classes have to waste a turn on a Shield.
Malf is covered. Intimidate has a counter too but you can just deal with it or use Bot, Aux, skills, etc.

You're only focusing on debuffing but what good will Smoke do? Woo, I can boost my Multi! Oh wait, Tech for Smoke and Support for Multi.. Wait a minute. Tech for Smoke and SS? Great synergy and OP builds! Malf? Yeah, too much power for Support builds, by far. TLMs cannot have a debuff unless you take out MA or Reroute. When Smoke was removed, it was a choice between Smoke and Reroute and (back then) the Balance Team took out Smoke so it won't end up with TLMs being a copy of BHs and Mercs merged together.

Lastly, if you took the Poison out and perhaps FC, you'd have two skills that you could create and give to Dex and Tech respectably. That's better synergy. I suggested one for Double Strike replacement and that'd be three. It's not that hard. They have variety of skills but not so good synergy. But if you were to go for Tech or Dex abuse, Poison would always come in handy since you can tank and loop it. If you go for Support or Strength abuse, you have respectable skills and Frenzy to give you HP back (if Strength). You can always take Atom out and make a new skill but how is that tactical? You'd be making them an offensive class which TLMs aren't.
Let's face it, classes with passive Armors are designed more for tanking. Simple as. This may change once passives are turned into active skills and you may see much better variety of builds. Really.
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
5/26/2013 16:19:02   
DARK SOUL OF HELL
Member

i wanted to mention frenzy in the str abuse but i consider it as a normal attack ( which it is ) but you'r right , it should be considered .
as for tech abuse u can't really talk about bot cause it is for all classes and it is not a skill .
and y did u say that i covered dex abuse while u could say poison ( cause it seems that u repeated it in everything :P ).
and for multi i said all except for heal which u can't really mention cause well it is the one general skill and it isn't related in anyway to support .

and it isn't really fair that a class is obliged to get a bot just because he is fragile to one specific skill . and MA really doesn't help that much , after i get smoked the dmg i take isn't lower then 25 .

here's a list of skills i feel that they have no business being in a tlm's skill tree :
DOUBLE STRIKE
STUN GRENADE
BLOOD SHIELD ( THIS ONE JUST NEEDS TO BE BUFFED ,MAYBE BY MAKING TAKE HP AND GIVE IT TO DEF AND RESES )
ATOM SMASH ( ALL I AM ASKING HERE IS TO MAKE IT UNBLOCKABLE )
FRENZY ( MAKE IT WORK WITH A SWORD )

extra ideas :
replacing reroute with blood lust ( MAYBE, NOT SURE, i would really like to see that :P )
the new skills should really work in harmony ( meaning that they improve with something helpfull with the other skills )
a skill that reduces dex for 3 turns and u can ( after u use it ) switch the reduction to tech or str or supp ( maybe not all those choices ) but if u do the switch the number of stat reduced will be divided in 2 ( meaning : if u took 40 dex and did the switch to tech happens is that his tech will be reduced by 20 and dex will go back to normal ) and the switch will waste a turn but not one of the 3 reduction turns .
replacing: stun grenade by maul , DS by a weaker berzerker .

< Message edited by DARK SOUL OF HELL -- 5/26/2013 16:21:51 >
Post #: 22
5/26/2013 16:46:14   
Ranloth
Banned


 I'll agree on DS, Stun Grenade and that's all. Perhaps buff to Blood Shield but that being granting more Resistance but for less turns (5 turns for 12 Res IIRC -> 3 turns and double the amount of Res (24 Res) for the same HP cost (12 HP), which is better. Frenzy with a Sword takes away class-specific skill leaving Atom. Swords would have too much of an advantage, especially with SS not requiring a Maul. Atom is already unblockable, even on block it drains EP, so it's fine as it is. Very low EP cost compensates for it.

DS, Stun and buff to Blood Shield. That's what should be changed for sake of variety. I've gave my suggestion for DS replacement which sorta works like a debuff and a damaging skill but not exactly (look at post #10), and Maul for Stun Grenade but then that'd leave 'em with no Dex-improving skills. But Mercs is in the same position (no Dex-improving skills) so Maul being back could do.
Or you could merge DS with my idea and have it apply an effect (not 100% of the time, it'd work based on your stats and your opponent's) and give it a mini buff to compensate for the random effect (such as on blocks, instead of dealing 15% damage, it'd deal 33% damage).

I'm not trying to discourage suggestions but some aren't just feasible (like debuffs).
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
5/26/2013 17:17:57   
.Libby.
Member
 

 TLM needs static smasher and bunker blaster

static smasher replaces atomic
bunker blaster replaces stun grenade

Perfect.
Post #: 24
5/26/2013 17:25:30   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Libby

That would turn TLM into an OP TM Caster -.-

Only more powerful because bunker can crit.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance >> TLM needs more variety
Page 1 of 212>
Jump to:






Icon Legend
New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition