Why balance is more important than a war.


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7/3/2013 6:40:14

ReinVI
Member

Well I thought I would throw this post up in relation to the current ongoing dread war. This is probably one of the most ambitious and probably my favorite of the wars I have been in since I can enjoy this while not being forced into a faction. The problem however is not the minor bugs that have been fixed to correct unfairness in which side is the victor. ( other than the whole exile sheer numbers on top of same faction battles ) but that is another story all together. This thread is about why in my opinion this war has been ruined. This war has been ruined quite far beyond the safe spot of repair due to one major problem, balance! yes balance has single handedly ruined this war for me and probably some other players. Where as I truly enjoy this game and I love the content you guys release the state of balance going into this war is completely ridiculous and needs to be fixed in my opinion before any more updates to the war itself are made. Right now the game sucks to play due to facing the same brain dead drone builds str/supp, High hp spam, or tlm super tanks. This is mainly a problem in 1v1 due to 2v2 being able to counter those builds are a lot easier due to having a partner. These abused builds are unfair to other players who actually try to use there brain plus fighting the same thing over and over and over again honestly makes this pvp centric game feel more like a job to play. This great war or at least very ambitious war has been ruined thanks to the poor balance and dullness of combat. 2v2 is really the only saving grace given it really doesn't have any big problems with abused builds except for the odd super support mercenary and even then those builds aren't to hard to counter.

So I suppose the final note I can really say is devs you guys should really focus more on balance and making the main focus of the game ( combat ) more fun for players and enjoyable instead of creating these epic events which revolve around combat which due to unbalance and copy cat builds is as dull and boring as watching paint dry. The biggest problems with this is sure you may have people who only focus on winning and being 'the best' enjoying your content but given the only way to enjoy the content ( great artwork on weapons, storylines, wars ) etc etc. is to fight in the combat but due to people having numerous losses due to luck and or builds that create unfair situations for players which make it even harder to earn credits in a system where credits are already drastically hard to come by they can't actually enjoy any of the content your producing!

Hope this post is easily understood by people and people agree with this but either way discuss whether you agree or disagree below and please keep things civil.

Epic

Post #: 1

7/3/2013 6:55:14

ValkyrieKnight
Member

^ Every time I get done playing Epic Duel I'm left with the urge to rip my hair out because of 1v1. As much as I dislike 2v2 its been my primary battle type to play. In fact, Omega 1v1 is why I stopped playing.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 2

7/3/2013 7:13:40

Scyze
Member

You made a good point about brainless builds...

Well, I can tell you that the naming is false and is the wrong term to use! They have a strategy and maybe it works and maybe it doesn't but still, they are smart enough to do things to win. If they are in a situation where they are losing, maybe they'll try to win. They will make good decisions if they are willing to win.
I was a guy with a tank build back in Delta. Was I brainless? Surely the win ratio could tell you if I or anyone was brainless but... are we actually stupid? Nope.

And another no, we are never really fighting the same thing, ever. You might beat someone and if you manage to meet them again, they will more likely step up their game and try to beat you and be a bit more strategic. We might meet the same person again who does the everything the same and this will be the same thing. But, if they are doing the same thing for every single battle, maybe it's their own strategy to do what they do; just like yours.

The war is ruined...
If the War was ruined by the balance being broken, why do you think some people are still having fun? There are people out there dedicated to win this war.

@ValkyrieKnight,
I love the whole idea of EpicDuel, I like how it is supposed to be played therefore you might expect me to like the game. I did, but now, I don't so much. I still have my reasoning to why the game isn't fun and you do as well.

quote:

The change - Omega
I don’t think the main reason to why the people are quitting is much which the new features but the changes of the stat points. HP/EP being worth 1 point just like the other stats are the main reason IMO. People are used to seeing high HP and dealing a high amount but the changes of Omega make it hard. If the NPC’s not counting to the battle records were removed in Delta, I still think that people would be happy. Why? Because of the change people now notice, it’s hard to adapt with.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21332840

AQW

Epic

Post #: 3

7/3/2013 7:25:32

Ranloth
Banned

With subjective balance, you will never achieve the balance of your own. You see balance as you fit and treat it as good or bad, but everyone will see it differently. That's why there won't be your desired perfect balance, because it's too opinion based.

War ruined, huh? Many people have said the balance isn't as bad as it was at the beginning of Omega or on par with that of previous phases where there wasn't too many OP builds but things were mostly balanced. I share the same view. If you can't beat TLMs, suck it up. Others can and it's a vast majority. You lose? Well, did you hope to win every time? If so, that's something that alarms Devs of a problem with an overpowered class (or combo). You aren't supposed to beat everyone. You aren't supposed to be able to counter everything. You lose, you lose. Simple as.

They will not stop releasing updates just to "perfect" the balance because it's a PvP game AND it's subjective. Not only that, it's been years since they've been re-balancing and it has its ups and downs, where it was really good and really bad, but they won't stop the releases just to focus on balance. THAT would kill the game.

Epic

Post #: 4

7/3/2013 7:26:17

ReinVI
Member

Scyze I'm not trying to call the players themselves brainless more so then calling the builds those players are using are brainless. And by brainless I mean requiring little to no thought at all to use
yet they still do incredibly well to defeat most other builds that require thought to use correctly. Tank builds were at one time a brain using build but now it's as simple as spamming heal as soon as your able and spamming bots etc etc.

Some players may indeed still be enjoying this war but how many of those players are using the very builds that ruin the enjoyment of the game for the other players? Balance is right up some peoples alley you always meet those players that use these absurd builds yet when you say they should be nerfed they have a hissy fit and get defensive of there build/ abusing. Plus I mean I have literally seen a player that his exact words were "oh I don't care if they nerf it I will just change class to the next build" I mean seriously? this is the kind of actions that should be cracked down somehow as those kinds of players completely ruin the creativity and fun of games like this just so there win records look good.

and this all relates into the same result these builds and imbalanced in combat whether it be 1v1 or 2v2 create reasons for people to quit / go on hiatus until they are fixed. This is what ruins these wars is these people ruin the combat which is the central element that all wars revolve around. When you kill the enjoyment of the battling you kill the enjoyment of the entire war that's what I mean by 'ruining' the war.

Epic

Post #: 5

7/3/2013 7:40:06

Scyze
Member

quote:

Tank builds were at one time a brain using build but now it's as simple as spamming heal as soon as your able and spamming bots etc etc.

So you are calling healing and using Robots brainless? That's a pretty weak reasoning. Nearly everyone will heal when they are able to and if they require it. For the Robots, it's not much of a big deal. They were always used heavily from Delta since there were new ones available.

quote:

When you kill the enjoyment of the battling you kill the enjoyment of the entire war that's what I mean by 'ruining' the war.

Sorry, I didn't understand this before. I think I was blind.

Oooh, if you lose, how are you meant to learn something? With winning a lot, you will learn something but not as much as when you lose. Expect losses in the future whether it's players, money or a loved one.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 6

7/3/2013 7:48:13

ReinVI
Member

What about when you lose repeatedly to the same builds no matter what builds you use to counter them? Poison using TLM's are currently in my opinion the biggest problem with that class mainly because of the fact if they have the Botanical bot they have a lvl 6 poison for 0 energy every 3 turns. This creates a situation where your constantly bleeding out against a build that's defenses make say blood lust nearly useless due to high defenses lowering your hp regen as well as the poison itself negating what you DO gain back. Maybe if they fixed the botanical bot and balanced it to be a little more fair then tactical mercs wouldn't be so powerful. But as it stands the Tactical mercs and those hp spammers/ str-supp spammers are the current " no brainer" builds.

Losing is a part of battling but when you lose consistently due to a build that is obviously unfair then it isn't a learning experience more than a experience killer.

Epic

Post #: 7

7/3/2013 7:59:25

Scyze
Member

It doesn't matter how many times you win or lose. Every time you lose to the same person, think of it in a good way. You will see how they manage to beat you and then you can prevent them from beating you next time because you know how they battle.

When I meet up with someone I'm weak against, I don't give up unless I'm bored. When I'm bothered, I will try to stretch the battle and make the opponent think so I know how they deal every time and with this, I have managed to beat quite a few people.

Wiseman ( https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1006235_144570575740332_1566037302_n.jpg): Always lost to him before but then I decided to do things different. I knew he would use Super Charge because he had a Dexterity build at the time. So, I decided to do things differently and it payed off - making sure I could deal damage each turn. With this new build, I managed to win a lot more.

quote:

Losing is a part of battling but when you lose consistently due to a build that is obviously unfair then it isn't a learning experience more than a experience killer.

I would love to give you a history lesson.

< Message edited by Scyze -- 7/3/2013 8:00:09 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 8

7/3/2013 19:44:42

Elite Tuga
Member

Myself & many know that 'TECH MAGES' are 'WAY TOO OVER POWERED' because they have endless 'ENERGY GAIN.' As if it wasn't enough having 'REROUTE' like most classes do (plus additional cores) now TM's also have a improved 'Assimulation skill.' Its like having two reroutes almost. Now they can do a 'MAD NEAR UNSTOPPABLE TANK BUILD' & by the time you get them on low health they will be just 're-healing 'MULTIPLE TIMES' in game let alone with cores like 'GENERATOR.' Overall I think there needs to be class balances to be addressed, bcz its completely unbalanced.

There's no fun in playing this game if your in a 'UNDERDOG CLASS' like myself as a Cyber Hunter. DEV'S should focus more in 'BALANCING' rather than new content, bcz first priority is fixing a game up for fair play in order to attract 'Artix investors' to enjoy the game.

Epic

Post #: 9

7/3/2013 20:21:27

Mother1
Member

@ tuga

Endless energy drain really? Energy drain for TM is once every 3 turns. Plus Reroute is not all it is cracked up to me.

It doesn't work when you have full energy, it is controlled by your opponent, and when done correctly an opponent can skip a turn so they don't trigger reroute and take the match from you. Has been done to me many times.

Also CH isn't an underdog class either. I as a TM have lost to many cyber hunters with the current balance now. But then again maybe it is because I don't use strength support TM, or Caster TM like most of the masses do.

Epic	Post #: 10

7/3/2013 20:49:38

Elite Tuga
Member

OK try be a C.hunter & do what you like with the skill tree bcz no matter what you do you will struggle the most as that class & then you will see what I & many Cybers suffer lately. I speak for C.H's bcz i've been one for 2 years & they are the 'Underdogs' right now. Most of the time when I am giving that extra turn to not trigger reroute against Techs, I still lose bcz its all ways 1 step advantage your giving to the TechMages, very rarely benefits. No class is perfect but out of them all Cybers & normal Mercs are weakest due to not having a passive skill of health or energy that makes a huge difference in battle. 'Static Charge' doesn't count it has 2 cool-downs, block-able & non passive.

Epic	Post #: 11

7/4/2013 17:53:59

ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

OK try be a C.hunter & do what you like with the skill tree bcz no matter what you do you will struggle the most as that class & then you will see what I & many Cybers suffer lately. I speak for C.H's bcz i've been one for 2 years & they are the 'Underdogs' right now. Most of the time when I am giving that extra turn to not trigger reroute against Techs, I still lose bcz its all ways 1 step advantage your giving to the TechMages, very rarely benefits. No class is perfect but out of them all Cybers & normal Mercs are weakest due to not having a passive skill of health or energy that makes a huge difference in battle. 'Static Charge' doesn't count it has 2 cool-downs, block-able & non passive.

Merc is fine as it is, but a little boring.
CH are good tanks, but build types are limited.
They arent up

AQW

Epic

Post #: 12

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