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6/28/2013 23:24:39   
ansh0
Member

It's just ridiculous how a BH with 30 support goes first when I have 57 support.

Makes it near impossible to win in many situations.


First strike should be directly based on how much support one has.


No chance involved whatsoever.

I suggest first strike should be given to the player who has the most support, no matter how much more.
Epic  Post #: 1
6/28/2013 23:29:12   
Mother1
Member


Greater support =/= you always go first. Besides they have it like this also so lower levels will have a better chance of surviving against higher levels.

Your idea would cause more problems then bring solutions.
Epic  Post #: 2
6/28/2013 23:29:41   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 How about no. It's not as if that BH went first for a statistically significant number of times.
Post #: 3
6/28/2013 23:44:13   
ansh0
Member

I don't see the problem, you had more support so you deserve to go first.
Epic  Post #: 4
6/29/2013 6:25:06   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 That would make high support an absolute necessity for any offensive-oriented build. It'll essentially divide the game into glass cannons and tanks, with just about nothing in between.
Post #: 5
6/29/2013 6:37:29   
ansh0
Member

Fine then if you have even a single point of support over your opponent, you get 95% chance of getting first strike.

Luck needs to go away in some form.
Epic  Post #: 6
6/29/2013 6:42:57   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

First Strike
[Formula]Chance to go first = 50% + (YourSupport - EnemySupport) * 1.5% + (-1 * (YourLevel - EnemyLevel) * 5%)

Funnily enough, it doesn't work using luck or RNG but Support and your Level... Math4u
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
6/29/2013 7:01:40   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

This reminds of me how people go ballistic when I go before them with me 29 support.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
6/29/2013 8:51:50   
Mysterion.
Member

quote:

Funnily enough, it doesn't work using luck or RNG but Support and your Level... Math4u

Lol.

quote:

Chance to go first = 50% + (YourSupport - EnemySupport) * 1.5% + (-1 * (YourLevel - EnemyLevel) * 5%)

That math of yours calculates a chance, does it not?
Chance = Luck.
After all, it still is, and will always be, related to luck.

One with more support will just have a higher chance, but it never assures it.
Epic  Post #: 9
6/29/2013 10:18:18   
ansh0
Member

quote:

Funnily enough, it doesn't work using luck or RNG but Support and your Level... Math4u


Still it's up to RNG to decide who goes first. Reading4u.
Epic  Post #: 10
6/29/2013 10:21:39   
Ranloth
Banned


 RNG = Random Number Generator. It's not involved here, at all. You have a set chance that purely depends on your stats and level, nothing else. There's no set base chance nor maximum so you cannot do anything about it by using any external means but Support and your level.

What you're suggesting is higher Support = MUST go first. Geez, because that seems fair and logical. So if I have higher Dex and Tech, I'll deflect and block everything because balance is so kewl and it seems fair?
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
6/29/2013 11:23:15   
Scyze
Member

It's a Random Number Generator... How are we a number?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
6/29/2013 11:55:33   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

Not supported, because that would make everyone resort to support builds. Also, I know where you're coming from because my alt has 118 support but people with 30 support go first sometimes. That really annoys me. But the fact is, if the devs added this feature then others would say "Well if I have more dex and tech, I should always block and deflect no matter what." which would be TERRIBLE.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
6/30/2013 0:22:06   
ansh0
Member

^It wouldn't matter would it?

If they go for support builds, they would get 1st turn anyways.

Epic  Post #: 14
6/30/2013 1:26:09   
Mother1
Member

@ Ansh0

Support also gives crits, and increased rage gain as well. If we went by your logic and everyone wanted the person with the most of a certain stat to always to what was tacked onto that stat, then only the people with the most support would gain rage, Crit, never get stunned, and go first.

The dex build issue could be avoided by using non melee's and with all the cores that are in the game that is quite easy, Tech builds that always deflect could be countered with strength build that use powerful melee's and moves that can't be deflected, But with support you will have several issues.

No rage gain, Always getting hit with crits, as well as being a victim of stun attacks.
Epic  Post #: 15
6/30/2013 1:34:57   
ansh0
Member

But look at support builds, they are terribly weak and beatable with almost any build.

Support builds are not, and will not be a problem.
Epic  Post #: 16
6/30/2013 2:08:10   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

@ Ansh

The same is with Strength builds, they're easily beaten by dex+tech builds, its not even a contest. Strength players will be tanked, drained, and heal looped, a gawd forbid they never get blocked.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
6/30/2013 2:13:38   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @ansh0

Glass cannon mages are a key example of support builds being far from underpowered. Of course they're beatable; so is any other build.
Post #: 18
6/30/2013 4:27:32   
Lordshadow92
Member

Not supported
Post #: 19
6/30/2013 17:25:41   
killerman164
Member
 

 I support. Support builds almost beatable by anything? In low level range, they sweep the crap out of bounties if those mercs go first. Sure in high lvl range they look weak and stuff, but in the low level range, those builds just wreck low hp suicidal defense builds (can wreck tank builds too if you plan your rage right).
Post #: 20
6/30/2013 17:36:40   
Mother1
Member

@ killerman164

Ever try using a dex build bounty hunter on them? I use this with my lower level BH and TM and I can beat these support merc's without too much trouble unless they crit.
Epic  Post #: 21
7/8/2013 2:31:58   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 The game really needs to consider 2v2 play in this first strike issue.

Here's an common example over hundreds of battles:

Opponents - two level 35's
Team - me (35) and a level 31 to level 33

The battle goes something like this...
1) 35 opponent goes first to either nerf or hit the lower level for decent dmg
2) Low level partner goes second and usually attacks
3) 35 opponent either nerfs or hits the lower level for decent dmg
4) My first move is either matrix or heal
5) Next round, low level partner is out...or i generate, and he is out the next round
6) Leaves me with nothing, we have done little dmg, and there's no chance...i.e. dead

This battle scenario is really unfair to the lower level player as well as the team they're on.

When you pull in a lower level player into a 35 battle, they should have an extreme advantage
in going first. Lower levels going first in this kind of battle is not a sure win, but it gives them
a fighting chance to use some of their skills and not be a 2 or 3-hitter.

If you're going to create this type of battle to avoid long waits, that is fine, but give the lower
level a chance not to be simply humiliated by two strong 35's.
Post #: 22
7/8/2013 3:02:26   
Mother1
Member

@ Archlord

In case you haven't noticed when facing lower levels or when a lower level is adding into the player pool when formula goes to decide who goes first the chance of the lower level team going first is higher since that was already added into the formula. Heck Some lower levels go first anyways even without this formula due to them having high support.

But on the flip side it isn't always like that either. I can also say many times I have won with lower levels due to them not only working well with my build, but them also having a build advantage over our opponents. So when it comes to battle it isn't always humiliation on the lower level.
Epic  Post #: 23
7/8/2013 10:00:10   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 @mother1

Yes, I would think that the lower level team would go first most of the time as well.

If it happened occasionally, I wouldn't even post about it. However, it happens more
than it should. Perhaps this is tied back into something in 1v1...idk. Or, I'm the one
causing it because I go last in the majority of my battles.

I'm just saying that the game should be giving the benefit of first strike to the lower
level in a low vs high level 2v2 match...almost all of the time. It should seem like bad
luck when it doesn't happen, infrequent, etc...
Post #: 24
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