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A small change to Malfunction

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7/11/2013 18:15:22   
Midnightsoul
Member

These str supp TMs tend to be a tad overpowered. There needs to be a solution to change Tech Mages.


In my observations, Tech Mages tend to have really strong offenses, but really weak defenses. This causes a great imbalance and I think it is only fair Tech Mage is given a steadier skill set whether it will be buffs or nerfs to certain moves.

I might need some help thinking of some solutions.
Honestly, my rough idea is that I just think Malf needs some kind of Dexterity requirement. It makes sense to make an offensive move require a defensive stat so damage doesn't become too crazy.

So why a Dex requirement?
After all, I did mention that I'm not very sure, I think it would help buff Dex TMs a bit since they are a bit weak and it will help balance out the agressive TMs.

But wouldn't that make casters overpowered again?
Well, first of all, casters can't be much of a threat anymore. They are somewhat weak when their energy is drained so they rely a lot on assimilation and reroute.
Second, I doubt they would have enough skill point to make Malfunction even effective. After all, a caster tends to have pretty low support so malf shouldn't be that bad, even if it was maxed out.


The problem:
Cyber Hunter also has Malfunction. Giving Malfunction a Dexterity requirement instead might make them overpowered with a multi build because multi-shot improves with Dexterity. BUT, it's quite possible Dex CHs might need a buff. If they do prove to be too strong, it might be reasonable to give multi-shot a strength ir support requirement. I kinda doubt it because Static Charge isn't that effective anymore so they can't spam and getting hit by multi-shot by one or two times won't really affect the battle that greatly.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
7/11/2013 18:37:31   
Mother1
Member

@ midnightsoul

This idea would do little to weaken strength support TM. They would just fill up the min requirement (giving up maybe a few stat points in dex to do so) for their malf and then continue on like they normally do. If anything this will give this build more of a chance to block since they will actually have more dex which in turn would buff this build since they would get better block chances.

As it is now while strength support TM is strong in some cases they have so many holes in their build it isn't funny. Low defenses for starters, plus if they don't go first they are 9/10 screwed since this build depends on going first. Whenever I face them and I go first I clobber them. So to be honest I don't see strength support TM as overpowered. overused yes but overpowered no.

Also this change for cyber hunter might strengthen tanks, but it may weaken offensive cyber hunters who aren't super tanks. It all depends on how you look at it.
Epic  Post #: 2
7/11/2013 19:23:37   
NDB
Member

Malfunction is never the problem. It's because they go first and crit often.
Epic  Post #: 3
7/11/2013 19:55:36   
Midnightsoul
Member

@mother1 and NDB

Usually they go first. You guys got any solutions? I'm just trying to find as many ideas as possible.


Oh, btw, how much support do you have in your build (with ehn.), Mother?

< Message edited by Midnightsoul -- 7/11/2013 20:01:25 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
7/11/2013 20:30:03   
NDB
Member

Malf and Smoke need a 1 turn warm up to solve the going first issue. This will give the other player a chance to do something besides having to shield and heal on your very first turns--a sign that you are off to a really bad start... Besides, smoke has been needing a nerf for a long time too. And this will also make it harder for those who debuff on first turn and them Omega the next; it stacks and its just too much.
Epic  Post #: 5
7/11/2013 20:34:29   
Midnightsoul
Member

@NDB
Hey! That's pretty good too! One turn warm-ups for malf and smoke is good. But what about intimidate? It wouldn't be fair in a...way? I mean, the move is balanced...but...eh, idk.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
7/11/2013 21:29:12   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

I normally just hope I can block them with my high dex. When I block, I win, when I don't, well, I just try to use Overlord and hope for a stun.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
7/12/2013 14:06:04   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

These str supp TMs tend to be a tad overpowered.

or you just cant beat them :P
i find them easy enough on my merc and on my bounty( be4 i sold my primary and armour)
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
7/12/2013 17:05:35   
edwardvulture
Member

supported I have 46 dex and this won't affect me at all
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 9
7/12/2013 18:32:03   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 malf is the main cause of the success of glass cannons because it increases with an offensive stat. Debuffs are also much, much stronger because people's base defense/resistance are lower than they were before, resulting in the debuffs being stronger in terms of defense/resistance being removed. Smoke doesn't necessarily increase with an offensive stat, but it does pretty much ruin the opponent's chances of blocking, which is an important thing when dealing with glass cannons. It's not as bad as malf because deflections only remove half, but a block pretty much makes any hit less than 8 or so, and the smoked person also has a much harder time using melee attacks.
Epic  Post #: 10
7/12/2013 23:52:51   
Midnightsoul
Member

@EDDD
It's hard to beat them as a Cyber. Plasma Armor isn't as effective enough compared to being a BH or BM because you can shiled when you wanna and have life regen.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
7/13/2013 0:14:08   
Dual Thrusters
Member

But then Cybers will get hurt too. And they aren't even effective glass cannons!
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
7/13/2013 2:30:36   
Synner
Member

@Midnightsoul true tank cybers had a hard time beating support str tm, the only way you can beat if you get lucky (block,deflect etc.)

< Message edited by Synner -- 7/13/2013 2:32:23 >
Post #: 13
7/14/2013 15:38:41   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

the actual build doesnt need a nerf, as a bounty and a cyber hunter i hav to say myself that the stat progression of malf/smoke should be nerfed. make them scale every 4.5 tec/support and make some sort of penalty to stat abusers.
like, every 65 support/str their chance to be blocked or deflected is increases by 5%?
and every 65 tec/dex your defences are decreased by 3?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
7/17/2013 6:45:20   
Prezial
Member

Dexterity requirement wont make CHs op with multi. Making it improved with dexterity would be better, but that would make them op. Why not make malf improved with dex and multi shot with support.

Edit: TMs would hate me.

< Message edited by Prezial -- 7/17/2013 6:47:09 >
Post #: 15
7/17/2013 7:56:12   
Mysterion.
Member

Actually I pwn every single str-sup TM very easily.
Unless they block and crit in one match..

EDIT: Scratch that, lucky spammers keep critting me before my final move, lucky n..bs e.e

< Message edited by Mysterion. -- 7/17/2013 9:44:35 >
Epic  Post #: 16
7/17/2013 9:37:49   
Mother1
Member

@ prezial

Make malf improve with dex with give TM too many moves that improve with dex. They will have Malf, overload, Plasma rain, and technician. While it could put an end to strength support TM it will create dex abuse caster TM. Trading one thing for another isn't a good idea for balance.

Epic  Post #: 17
7/17/2013 14:22:31   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Someone posed a suggestion of making Malf/Smoke and to make it fair intimidate a 1 turn start up, I like it. This would solve the problem almost immediately.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
7/17/2013 14:34:05   
Mother1
Member

@ valkyrieKnight

and cause problems for other builds that don't abuse debuffs. This would stop those glass cannons and high health BH who use smoke yes, but at the same time what about other builds that don't abuse this? Every change affects All builds not just popular overused builds.
Epic  Post #: 19
7/18/2013 7:03:12   
Prezial
Member

@Mother1

Oh, sorry I forgot, I was thinking about CH cuz I'm a CH
Post #: 20
7/18/2013 16:26:21   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Why does intimidate need a 1 turn warm-up? Yes it's a debuff, but no one seems to have trouble with the way it is now.

Don't nerf something that is already balanced.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
7/18/2013 16:57:29   
I Underlord I
Member

Intimidate is in no way a "balanced" move. With little investment in the skill, especially with higher and higher support is, one can easily nerf primary and secondary attacks, cores, and moves; this is most effective on builds that rely on strength and builds that lack strength or have it at a minimum (e.g. 45 for level 5 focus, ~21 for skill builds, etc.).
Just because Smokescreen and Malfunction lower defenses rather than offenses does not mean they are any more imbalanced than Intimidate.

As for the one-turn warm-up, it is simply ridiculous to suggest that debuffs be so handled without a like warm-up for buff moves.

_____________________________

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AQ  Post #: 22
7/18/2013 18:40:34   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Even when intimidated, you can still be able to do ok damage. Or use your bot/aux.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
7/19/2013 0:40:36   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Debuffs with a 1 turn warmup leads to:
-High EMP classes being able to easily stop debuffs, especially in 2v2. This really hurts focus BHs and CHs, but also really dents glass cannons as well.
-Not too hard in 1v1 on debuff classes that aren't glass cannons because the first turn can quite often be used for placing buffs (blood commander, reflex, technician, etc...), healing after a bunker crit or heavy hit, poison bot, taking energy, etc... There are lots of options on turn one other than debuffing.

Basically, all debuff classes in 2v2 would take a heavy hit, but in 1v1 it wouldn't really hurt the focus tanks and other builds but mess up the glass cannons pretty well.
Epic  Post #: 24
7/20/2013 0:22:40   
kittycat
Member

^^: Well I support that because glass cannons need to know that it's about using your brain and not spamming hits hoping for high damage. Another plausible change is LOCKING the debuff moves to 3 damage only.
AQ MQ  Post #: 25
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