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Changing unblockables

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10/24/2013 2:12:26   
ReinVI
Member

seriously who's bright idea was it to make cores / attacks outside of energy using skills unblock-able? this is flat out stupid balance wise
if an attack is unblock-able it should do "less" than 100% damage not 10% more! seriously unblock-ables should all do something like
90% damage at the most due to the fact it can't be blocked/ deflected or otherwise reduced in any way. You change something like azreals aux/ pistol
specials to less than 100% and they can be deflected and otherwise turn into a flat out waste of a turn yet cores like meteor shower and chairmans fury are
a 100% unblock-able/ reduce-able damage source that scales off an offensive stat. These are the skills people should be using as finishers when the opponent
is at 10-20 life and just needs to push through that last bit of damage. They shouldn't be something people need to be worried about being KOed by at 40+
seriously.

this was ok on the old promos because it only triggered on clicking 'strike' and only at a 10-13% chance so the 110-113% damage was ok due to it not being abusable
/ used consistently sure people could get lucky but more often then not people weren't and this skill wasn't seen "that" often. But now it's just flat out ridiculous sense
they can use this unblockable "increased" damage attack WHENEVER they need it.

< Message edited by ReinVI -- 10/24/2013 2:14:26 >
Epic  Post #: 1
10/24/2013 4:01:25   
Seteriel
Member

I mostly agree with you. If unblockable and usable at will, damage boost should be taken away
I do think though that the cores were made unblockable + damage bonus, because they are a one time use per battle.

What confuses me more are the botanical bots: completely undeflectable damage.

Streamlining everything i would do:
- make blocks+deflects equal in terms of damage reduction
- make almost every move and the move's special effect blockable/deflectable
--- this includes assimilator, emp, multi attacks, plasma cannon, bot+weapon attacks, etc
--- this excludes only the "mastery" skills surgical strike, massacre and super charge
--- leaving cores either "unblockable" (one time use but reduced damage), or "blockable" (one time use, but with special effects and/or higher damage)

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 10/24/2013 4:02:36 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
10/24/2013 4:08:45   
ReinVI
Member

the "only once per game" sadly doesn't cut it for me. I'm sorry but it only takes using it once to win you a fight as EVERY str abuse build will show you using it on rage is like an big middle finger to defenses/ luck because eeven at 40 hp there's a good chance that it will still either flat out kill you or put you in a very VERY vulnerable position. This isn't even considering the fact that they can still crit as well! I feel they should make things like meteor shower a passive core and make it trigger when you hit the strike button like the old ones... they were FINE when it was like that then the core system happened and well.. it brought us to this point.
Epic  Post #: 3
10/24/2013 4:38:13   
Seteriel
Member

Using the one time cores "tactically abusive" is to me not enough reason why they should be weakened:
- 5 focus high tech players just throw their bot
- high support players just shoot their aux
- high str players can also just shoot their sidearm
Okay, these attacks can be blocked/deflected. Hence the point to me is: "tactically abusive" cores can not be blocked/deflected, this is where we should work on.


That's a good point, making the cores also a passive like the old ones (i mean like serious: having active cores was the almost largest cookie of confusion, when i returned 2 months ago after a long break).
But what about frost shards, concussive shot, energy shot and others, then ? Wouldn't they also need to be passive ones with a chance to proc like the "old" ones ? Don't forget about Azreals Charm here o.o


The topic is widespread, we should concentrate on "the bigger whole" before making quick shots at specific problems :)

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 10/24/2013 4:43:47 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
10/24/2013 4:48:49   
ReinVI
Member

no... things like concussive shot should still active cores as they are fairly balanced and don't make some ungodly powerful strike unless being used by a support build ...plus these shots can still be deflected as can frost shards, ( energy shot? dunno since that's an energy drain and should remain one time use ) but seriously the 110-13% unblockables should be considered passives procced off using the strike buttong at a 10-13? or so % chance a lot of the cores just seem untested and thrown into the game as a "plz buy me" sort of thing. Not balanced at all at least if they were passive triggers then these abuse builds would have to choose between the chance of performing a powerful attack or using something that lessens/ strengthens luck factors none of this piling unblockables on top of +crit chances and what not.

the only true "fair' active cores seem to be armor actives

I personally want to see chairmans fury get the balance boot as well... it needs to be 90% purely because it's unblockable "and" has a extra effect which can be followed up by a trollishly strong chairmans -> rage unblockable for massive damage with no chance of reduction.

< Message edited by ReinVI -- 10/24/2013 4:56:09 >
Epic  Post #: 5
10/24/2013 6:10:53   
Ranloth
Banned


 You're trying to nerf cores when it's the stat being troublesome. I don't see how nerfing cores will help, when the stat will be as good as it is now.

You've even pointed it out, that Str is being the problem. But yes, let's nerf something that improves with Strength rather than the stat alone, because it only weakens many things and leaves something that's potentially poorly statted, to be still broken.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
10/24/2013 6:13:07   
ReinVI
Member

the stat's a problem sure but the fact the core is 110% damage unreducable in ANY WAY means that it can technically be abused by any build because on rage it's ignoring some defenses.
Epic  Post #: 7
10/24/2013 7:10:41   
Ranloth
Banned


 You can debuff one's Strength. It has a pure damage boost, unlike other cores which have effects and lowered damage. Dealing 100% damage but unblockable/undeflectable isn't exactly a boost in damage, because other cores will often be unblockable and undeflectable too - with some exception (ones with effects on top of it).
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
10/24/2013 8:18:44   
DarkDevil
Member

making deflection as block brakes the point of guns or aux , they are a guaranteed final hit for someone with low hp as they used to be before the min 3 thing was put in game and still they are , block is low chance for very low dmg and deflection is higher chance for low damage , that's how they work.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
10/24/2013 9:14:37   
Mother1
Member

@ Reinvi

It is the fact that these cores a used for 100% damage without effect that they are given this boost. They weakened azreal's will, Azreal's torment, and other effect cores because they are used for just that effect not damage. This is also why these attacks are also deflectable or blockable which when the others that are used for pure damage is not. Cause even if a luck factor does happen with effect cures the effect will still happen where as with pure damage cores if they were given luck factors whenever those happen we would have people complaining once again about luck.

Last I checked the masses aren't happy with luck because it has taken away so many wins they felt they deserved which is why many use these cores since they aren't affected by blocks or deflections.

As it is now strength is the problem not the cores themselves. Also with the way the current balance is are you really surprised? right now everyone has found strength and strength support build trend which is why these cores are so popular.
Epic  Post #: 10
10/24/2013 12:19:24   
Predator9657
Member

quote:

the masses aren't happy with luck because it has taken away so many wins they felt


You can say that again.
It's a shame people don't count the amount of times that they have won "due to luck".
Epic  Post #: 11
10/24/2013 18:33:03   
GearzHeadz
Member

I agree with this idea on nerfing guaranteed hits in a sense. It doesn't really make a lot of sense that an attack that is unblockable would deal more than an average attack. They should deal less than normal, or at least normal in my opinion... Unless they are a special, limited quantity core like Titan's Birth-Day cores.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
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