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Class balance - Staff/Club/Blades requirements for skills

 
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12/17/2013 6:09:33   
Thylek Shran
Member

Im criticizing this since Gamma or Delta but its still unfair and unbalanced
so I bring this up again. For class balance and build diversity its necessary
that all classes have the same number of skills that require a Staff/Club/Blades
and its also important which skills those are. As example Cheap Shot is a
less important skill while Assimilation is about to be a must have skill.

The reason why there are so many powerfull Bounty Hunter sword builds
around is because of that. All their skills that require Wrist Blades are pretty
much obsolete now: Cheap Shot, Massacre, Venom Strike.
This is also the reason why Bounty Hunters dominate since a long time.
Its not only their skills like Smoke Screen and Blood Lust / Mark of Blood.
Its just that they can use swords without much or no handicap at all while
mages and mercenaries have a much bigger handicap when using swords.
Defensive Cyber Hunters can make good Venom Strike Builds but a
Strenght/Sword combo seems to be more powerfull.

On the other side there are not many Tech Mage sword builds around
because Assimilation is about to be a must have skill and Plasma Bolt is pretty
powerfull and energy efficient while Overload is usefull too for a dex/support
build and its tactical potential.


Number and names of skills that require a class only primary weapon (Staff/Club/Blades):

Tech Mage: 4 - Plasma Bolt, Overload, Super Charge, Assimilation
Blood Mage: 3 - Fireball, Overload, Super Charge

Bounts Hunter: 3 - Cheap Shot, Massacre, Venom Strike
Cyber Hunter: 3 - Cheap Shot, Massacre, Venom Strike

Mercenary: 2 - Maul, Static Smash
Tactical Mercenary: 2 - Frenzy, Atom Smasher


As you can easily see its pretty unbalanced in numbers and while BHs and CHs
seem to be in average they benefit the most from it because their 3 skills are
not a must have at the moment and often not usefull for several reasons.
The bonus that swords grant are mostly better than dealing around with those
skills (Cheap Shot, Massacre, Venom Strike).

Another point are the so called Ultimate skills (Massacre, Super Charge, Surgical Strike).
While Massacre and Super Charge do require a class primary weapon Surgical Strike
does not which is a bonus to the mercenary classes. On the other side mercenaries are
dependant on energy control skills (Static Smash, Atom Smasher).
But for balance it woul be better if all Ultimate skills require (or dont require) a class
primary weapon because those skills can be very powerfull and can be compared
to each other.

As a first step Tech Mages should be able to use Plasma Bolt, Overload or Assimilation
with a sword while Surgical Strike should require a club. This would at least make
the numbers even to 3 skills for each class.


There are many ways to balance this. Here some examples which also could
be combined in some cases:

#1 Change the weapon requirements of skills to even numbers between classes
(good option for more build diversity and also can lead to balance with some other adjustments)

#2 Make Swords, Staffs, Clubs and Wrist Blades even in power
(most players would use Staff/Club/Blade then so its not a good option if used alone)

#3 Remove weapon requirements from skills
(maybe would lead to the most balance and also offers alot more style customization;
some animations like Overload and Massacre would require to be adjusted maybe)

#4 Remove weapon requirements from all but Ultimate skills (Massacre, Super Charge, Surgical Strike) and reduce the bonus that swords grant.
(A very interesting option I think)

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/17/2013 6:22:46 >
DF Epic  Post #: 1
12/17/2013 6:30:35   
Ranloth
Banned


There is a balance issue with weapon requirements? Likes of Overload get damage boost for their requirement, hence why its stronger than Stun/Plasma Grenade. And overall, different classes - they don't need to share the same requirements to be balanced equally - Cheap Shot can be compared to Double Strike (same tier, different power and requirement), or Atom Smasher vs. Static Grenade/EMP, and even Venom Strike vs. Toxic Grenade - thus leading to conclusion that different skill-trees have different skillset and don't need to follow the same "format". If that was the case, all Stun skills should be equal, all Poison skills (two) should be the same, etc.

These requirements is what keeps some skills stronger than others. As I've already said, Stun skills are one.

#1 Wouldn't make it diverse but cause some nerfs, here and there. Read the above for the reason why.
#2 Absolutely not. Swords get more stats and often +1 damage to make up for the loss of some skills. Class-specific weapons can use anything, hence why less power.
#3 As above. You'd have to make every weapon equal.
#4 Only interesting one that could work, without much hassle. Although, if it means nerf to Swords, I don't see it as necessary. Read first paragraph as of to why. Furthermore, that'd be unneeded nerf for those who don't use Ultimates. In the same way, (TL)Mercs can use their Ultimate w/ a Sword and there's no issue, but for others, it'd be nerf to Swords, huh?

My reasoning is clear, and I will stand by it, therefore, I don't support.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
12/17/2013 7:00:10   
DarkDevil
Member

if assimilation will be used with sword its power will drop to 1-10 instead of 5-18.
hunters also get a good crict chance on the cheapshot , also without poison or cheapshot they got no way to deal with someone with high armor.
also without masacre they got no nukes , stand in front one of them. if smoke is countered they deal no more than 15 damage.
i also agree mercs need a requirement on the double strike , with an aproporate buff ofc.

otherwise , trans states it well.
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
12/17/2013 7:11:44   
Ranloth
Banned


I mean, we could always dump a Maul requirement on Surgical Strike, making it 3 requirements for each class - but TMs, which will likely use a Staff anyway; Assimilation may be necessary, but those with a Sword and some good thinking, could go for purely Battery Backup. Who knows.
In return, SS could be buffed if needed. I don't know exact values, but it'd have to be on par with Super Charge, minus the effects since these differ.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
12/17/2013 17:10:29   
rayniedays56
Member

As a CH, I would definitely support the removal of weapon requirements to all but the ultimate moves. I mean, honestly, would you see massacre being used with a sword? It would look like Lightning's Army of One ultimate off of Final Fantasy. Which would be neat...

Any way, my point is that some classes diversity in builds is severely limited by the accessibility to skills requiring specific weapons.

For example:

I use a High HP, Super Tank build with a CH. This is a limited build, though, since any damaging skills I can use are only usable with wrist blades. If I want to hit hard, I can't rely on skills. I can tank heavily, especially with the improved SC, but the synergy of defensive moves to attack moves is severely limited.

there is only 4 usable skills with swords on the CH skill tree (and BH?).
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
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