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How to solve the strenght build problem

 
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3/16/2014 4:27:41   
Thylek Shran
Member

Strenght builds rely much on the strike attack and as we know strenght
is OPed for several reasons. One of them is that the strike attack is
available every turn and doesn´t require much tactic. So alot players
just use Mark of Blood or Bludgeon and then mostly only have to spam
strikes to win. Especially with the legendary primary weapon bonus.
Of course strenght could be nerfed but then maybe tank builds become
to powerfull.

The solution: Add energy cost to the strike attack.
About 40 EPs for each strike. If a player dont has that much energy he
still could strike but then would doing only 70% damage. I think that this
is the only way to balance strenght builds beside skill and core corrections
that rely on strenght.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 3/16/2014 4:31:46 >
DF Epic  Post #: 1
3/16/2014 4:35:45   
Mother1
Member

I have one issue with this idea. We already have serious energy strain problems as it is. Adding another move that costs energy in any amount will be a blow to all classes and builds not just strength builds. If we didn't have so much strain on energy that wouldn't be an issue but as it is a problem now I can't support this idea.
Epic  Post #: 2
3/16/2014 4:45:34   
DarkDevil
Member

another point is that it won't really stop anything but penalise bhs and mercs because they can't constantly regain energy so it heavily nerfs the wrong side.
while chs and tm and bm (they could get 40 per turn) which really abuse it can constantly regenrate energy so they won't be heavily penalised.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 3/16/2014 4:46:30 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
3/16/2014 13:12:49   
Remorse
Member

This concept (striking having a cost) was brought up in my stamina points thread, http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21537904


I think using stamina points this could really be a good feature, as one it doesn't add the the strain on energy and two, it equally disadvantage each class equally rather then more to those with less strong energy regains.





Honestly I think the stamina points concept gets a lot less credit then it is worth, since it solves many issues as well as adding another parameter to the game which means balance resolves aside it would still be worthwhile feature to add due to the increased variety and enjoyment.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/16/2014 13:14:13 >
Epic  Post #: 4
3/16/2014 14:13:09   
Xendran
Member

@Remorse: If you honestly want to change a feature so heavily, you may as well go the full way and go for the ED Remake: A game balanced around a stamina system that lets you perform multiple actions per turn to chain together combinations of synergies, with much larger skill trees and more stats available to be able to spread functions properly and balance them.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
3/16/2014 23:55:39   
Remorse
Member

^

Although I won't say it's the full way,

If you combine the full discussion in that thread then you would get almost a full feature fitted to ED and balanced in my eyes.

-Each class, has 2 skills with a stamina cost.
Merc: Hybrid armour, Static Smash
BH: Static grenade, Shadow arts.
CH: Static charge, Shadow arts (Note: replace plasma armor with technician)
Blood mage: Energy parasite, *New Ultimate *
TLM: Battery, Mineral armour

The shields hybrid armour, mineral armour and shadow arts would work like this:
They have 0 warm up and 0 cool down and last indefinitely or until the user runs out of stamina or deactivates it.
The turn activating the shield will cost stamina and consume a turn and every turn with the shield activated will cost stamina draining per turn, possibly making the stamina gained per turn becoming negative.

When the shield is deactivated they do not lose a turn and is done so before they continue their turn or they can wait until they run out of stamina which will deactivate the shields automatically as well as not consume their turn.



-Cores have a stamina cost and no longer use energy.
-Robot specials use stamina
-Stamina is at a fixed amount and only gains influence in terms of stamina gained per turn. (This amount is 500 with 50 gained per turn when not being influenced.)
-The average cost of a skill costing stamina such as stamina grenade is around 250-300 at max skill level, this will cost much less if the skill is a lower level making it worthwhile to consider not maxing these skills.
-The average core active and robot special stamina cost is around 50-250 stamina but that is mainly determined by how strong the core is, for example say the hatch-ling rush core would need to have a cost of at least 200.



This is the basic feature I want to add,

But then their is further things that are not essential to the system that can be added on later with testing for assurance.
such as:

-Giving strike a small stamina cost of around 30 meaning they will always have enough to stamina to strike since you regain a base amount of 50 per turn.
-Possibly change skills to incorporate a stamina regain buff/debuff, for example intimidate could say slow the stamina gained per turn of the opponent from 50 per turn to 30 per turn for the duration of intimidate.
Adrenaline rush could provide a stamina increase per turn to say 60 or 70 per turn for 3 turns.

-Possibly give cores a cool-down and allows them to be used more then once per game since they have a separate limiting factor, this idea however would take a lot of testing and may not be a good idea if it overpowers some cores.

-Possibly make stamina gained per turn have a small bonus determined by your support for example 1 stamina per turn extra per 10 support at 100 support his would be an extra 10 stamina per turn.





Sure they could remake the whole game incorporating stamina however, I think their are already enough holes in the current system that allow it to be incorporated as if it was needed,

For example the high pressure on energy, limiting to cores and the high reliance on free costing skills means that this sort of feature would fit in to solve those three main issues without having to fully change the whole concept of the game.


I don't wish for them to fully change their game because although I would like that, I doubt it's viability to be used.

I realize that stamina points is also a huge change but I feel it would fill those holes that are currently causing issues in the game now mainly as a result of the passive to active change.





You are welcome to make your own variation of the stamina concept if you wish though too drastic and I doubt it's chances of being considered, though I honestly hope they consider anything at this stage.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/17/2014 0:10:45 >
Epic  Post #: 6
3/20/2014 2:23:22   
dfo99
Member
 

the str builds is op? is very rare see someone using more than 85 points in str, 85 not is very high
Post #: 7
3/20/2014 4:08:31   
lampur1
Member

The games problems arent that there are unfair builds. Its just that we dont have a reliable way to counter it.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/20/2014 5:06:12   
Remorse
Member

^ Completely agree.
Epic  Post #: 9
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