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HP Strength Builds

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4/19/2014 17:12:37   
Scyze
Member

What are your thoughts on these high HP strength builds? Before you know it, there will be tanky builds roaming around, and people will find it hard to compete with them.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/19/2014 17:38:23   
Mother1
Member

Since I play 2 vs 2 a lot and rarely play 1 vs 1 I don't find them too annoying. Last time I played 1 vs 1 surprisingly I actually beat a 1700 HP BM build with a 850 Dex TM build.
Epic  Post #: 2
4/19/2014 18:20:27   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

this still hasnt been fixed? wow...
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
4/19/2014 19:01:19   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

It doesn't need to be fixed. Other stats need buffs.
Epic  Post #: 4
4/19/2014 20:01:33   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 No, it's more like there aren't as many skilled players as there once were since many people left the game. If there were more skilled players like in previous phases this wouldn't even come to exist because it relies on simplicity in use and can only be countered by strategic play to exploit the hidden weaknesses.
Epic  Post #: 5
4/19/2014 20:07:52   
RageSoul
Member

Adding to what Penguin said , if said strategies are counters to the simplistic style of certain builds , people complain rather than think.

ON TOPIC :
They aren't really broken , it's just that the changes just made them safer , less risky and more effective to use because a lot of the simple yet effective skills/cores are mostly Primary-based.

< Message edited by RageSoul -- 4/19/2014 20:08:18 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/19/2014 21:12:30   
edwardvulture
Member

No.... The reason this build is so popular is because of the lack of testing and thought on the balance updates not to mention how the legendary system is biased towards this particular build. It really is impossible for a small balance team to attempt to balance stats, skills, classes, cores, mechanics across 40 levels and legendary status. Part of it used to be the players being lazy and unwilling to find counter builds and just complain on the forums but this is not the case any more, now even the super-creative players cannot piece together anything new. They have taken the easy way out by attempting to make the classes more like each other when that really is counter-intuitive for diversity and overall enjoyment. If there was really a direct counter for 5 bonus or HP strength builds, I would have thought of one by now. Glass cannon used to counter 5 bonus, a well-thought out "balanced" build could have taken out a strength build The truth is too much things have been nerfed and there are too little choices in this game.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 7
4/20/2014 3:00:32   
InFlamed Fury
Member

Well me being a level 39, 5 focus/Tank Cyber Hunter (It can be a pain but i enjoy it still) play 1v1 quite a lot and come across HP/STR builds all of the time and i usually end up beating them due to having the ability to just put up a shield based on what their primary's damage type is. Then it's just EMP them and start hitting them with everything. Most of the battles are pretty long and the infernal android special does loads of damage (Around 450-650) with and without rage at times. So with the right build you can still beat them, sometimes you will lose due to a block or a deflect, but that's just what happens right? Even before Omega you could lose due to being blocked or having the opponent deflect you, so why is it such a big problem in this Phase of the game when there are little boosts to help prevent these things?

I still do reckon that they need to somehow fix this problem and as many people have said, most people are just to lazy or not creative enough to come up with their own build so they use the build which everyone else is using which then makes the game based on luck which creates even more problems due to those same lazy people complaining about the game.

All in all, what i have said in the previous paragraphs is that regardless of what they do to balance people will still complain about something being OP due to everyone using it. The best thing that the staff could do is make a new balance patch to try and fix this and in that same update, they should make it so that other players cannot view your build unless you:
A. Enable the ability for others to see your build via a check-box in the Options or the In-Game Character page.(Your Stats Page)
B.The person is in your faction or buddy list.
C.You upload your build over the internet through social networking, E-mails or YouTube.

This is just a minor suggestion and i think that other people have made it before but i reckon that it might help with everyone abusing the same build over and over again.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/20/2014 3:32:32   
Mother1
Member

@ Inflamed fury

That will never happen. It has been suggested many times but people complained about

1 if you can't see the build you are fighting against you are fighting blind and it will increase luck in battles.
2 The staff want it so people who can't find builds to be able to copy a good one since everyone isn't a master build maker.
Epic  Post #: 9
4/20/2014 4:56:11   
kosmo
Member
 

 the only simple problem are ranks.

while i completly agree whit penguin i wanted to point again what scyze said:

quote:

Before you know it, there will be tanky builds roaming around, and people will find it hard to compete with them.


this is totally true, some of us are going over rank 30, at this point investing legendary stats into bot dmg is worthfull, and focus will be again a popular build.

in conclusion, before talking about class balance we must to revisit ranks, making them as equal as possible to incrase the stat diversity.
Epic  Post #: 10
4/20/2014 13:53:12   
Predator9657
Member

It may seem that L ranks are the problem, but does +30damage really make a difference to the ~600 these HP/str builds have?

Imo, HP scaling needs to be reduced slightly to increase the value of dext/tech, and support needs some major buffing to compete with the other stats.

Also balance withing the individual rank's needs to be fixed. 3primary damage/rank is =/= 3def/rank or 3 res/rank and it is definitely =/= 4damage every 3 (gun) or 4 (aux/bot) turns.

Penguin's analysis is correct. I usually struggle against these builds only if they have a significant rank advantage on me.
Epic  Post #: 11
4/20/2014 14:57:33   
GearzHeadz
Member

Yes, it does. Its +30 for primaries, +40 for side-arms, +40 for aux, +30 for defense, +30 for resistance, and +40 for bots. It makes a huge difference.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
4/20/2014 15:09:57   
Xendran
Member

quote:

It really is impossible for a small balance team to attempt to balance stats, skills, classes, cores, mechanics across 40 levels and legendary status.


Only because the mechanics are fundamentally broken. If the mechanics were remade without breaking extremely important balancing conventions, a single person could do the balance if they had enough experience with the game.
Not ANY person though. They need somebody who breaks down and analyzes flaws in games and thinks of ways to fix them, and has a very logical mindset capable of totally shutting out biased ideas. This person also needs to have deep enough knowledge of the game mechanics to know how to use take advantage of esoteric combinations, clever use or abuse of game mechanics, and be able to think ahead to either prevent them or catch them before going live. You can almost never catch them all, but you can have a substantially lower number of broken aspects than we are used to in ED. And no, I'm not talking about myself, I have my own projects to work on.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 4/20/2014 15:13:16 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 13
4/20/2014 15:47:24   
Predator9657
Member

quote:

Yes, it does. Its +30 for primaries, +40 for side-arms, +40 for aux, +30 for defense, +30 for resistance, and +40 for bots. It makes a huge difference.


So everyone using these HP/Str builds are suddenly a L40 R60+ now?
Epic  Post #: 14
4/20/2014 15:49:56   
GearzHeadz
Member

I never said that. You said it was 30 damage. I just said what it actually is.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
4/20/2014 18:05:39   
Predator9657
Member

@ Gearz: You implicitly said that. I said 30 primary damage which is what Str/HP builds benefit a lot from L ranks (which is what a lot of people are complaining that the str bonus from L ranks are making str/MoB seem OP). You just stated all the advantages that they (or anyone else in general) can get from L ranks IF they were R60+, so I just pointed out that flaw in your logic.
Epic  Post #: 16
4/20/2014 18:42:54   
Xendran
Member

Predator, whether or not players in general have it is completely irrelevant. What matters is the fact that once you DO reach that point, every other build becomes obsolete compared to the strength build because of how hard it synergizes with ranks.

If 50 people had one shot kill weapons, would it not be a problem becuase only 50 people have it?


< Message edited by Xendran -- 4/20/2014 18:43:37 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
4/21/2014 1:18:04   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

;P I've always did nothing but str and hp, pro builds ftw.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
4/21/2014 10:16:41   
Predator9657
Member

@ Xendran:

quote:

What matters is the fact that once you DO reach that point, every other build becomes obsolete compared to the strength build because of how hard it synergizes with ranks.


I'm not disagreeing with that. My point to Gearz is that you can't just state all the bonuses that L ranks give (to any builds with R60+) and then say because of this it makes a huge difference to just str/hp builds.
Epic  Post #: 19
4/21/2014 14:43:31   
GearzHeadz
Member

Okay then. +30 primary damage, +40 side-arm damage, +30 resistance, +30 defense. All of those legendary ranks make a huge difference to str/hp builds, not just primary.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
4/21/2014 22:42:17   
Wootz
Member

That is a problem ever since Resistances scaling got lowered to Defenses scale. Just revamping both Defense and Resistance to scale as Resistance had prior to its nerf would fix a BIT of this problem.
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
4/22/2014 5:39:57   
Xendran
Member

Yes it would, if you consider hybrid armor mercenaries becoming nearly unkillable to be a "fix".
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
4/22/2014 6:06:36   
Wootz
Member

Then that needs a re-balance. Lower the percentage until you get basically the same ammount defenses as you'd get now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
4/22/2014 6:35:21   
Xendran
Member

Then it just shifts again. This is why percentage reduction is needed. Something is *always* broken with flat damage reduction.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 24
4/22/2014 6:40:36   
Wootz
Member

What do you have in mind?
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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