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Intimidate

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5/25/2014 14:32:55   
GearzHeadz
Member

This skill has too much power to it and has been overlooked for quite sometime simply because it was considered to be in "underpowered" classes. It is a massive stat nerfing skill with little cost and excessive gain. It nerfs 10 more stat points than the other nerfing skills while costing 80 less energy, and having no stat requirements. It needs to be brought to par with the other stat nerfing skills. I say remove the extra 10 stat points that are nerfed and add 80 energy to the cost. Make it scale similar to malfunction and smokescreen, but with tech or dex. I believe dex would be the more efficient stat for it. Give it a 17 dex requirement and make it scale with +2 dex per level. Make its energy cost improve with +20 per level as well.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
5/25/2014 15:29:36   
Variation
Member
 

 Not supported at all. The skill is perfectly fine, its energy cost is justified by the fact that it doesn't lower your opponents defense/resistance. It's funny when strength builds are dominating people resort to trying to make the developers nerf anti-strength tactics. Intimidate and dexterity builds are the only threats to strength builds, nerf either of them and you've just buffed strength. Strength doesn't need any buffs.

< Message edited by Variation -- 5/25/2014 15:34:00 >
Post #: 2
5/25/2014 15:32:22   
killerman164
Member
 

 Not Supported, it is a fine skill. In fact, it looks like only a counter to high STR builds. If used on Focus or Dex, they just use other weapons they have, in fact, if it were used on a high STR build. The user doesn't get much decreased, but it is enough to help the caster to take less damage.
Post #: 3
5/25/2014 15:34:58   
GearzHeadz
Member

It is mainly used only by str builds. Those builds you've mentioned are both OP as well and need fixing as well. STR needs fixing too, I admit that, but that still doesn't justify allowing a skill to be so powerful.

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 5/25/2014 15:36:21 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/25/2014 16:43:10   
Mother1
Member

I don't agree with this at all. This would be in turn buffing strength which right not is the flavor build for most. People use high dex builds and Intimidate to counter this. The reason why the others got a nerf and not this is because smoke and malf are offensive and work with strength builds were as intimidate is defensive and comes in handy when dealing with those high strength monsters.

If you don't like it you can always use the assault bot's cleanse to remove 65% of it or field/Blood commander if you have it to counter this.
Epic  Post #: 5
5/25/2014 19:01:11   
ScarletReaper
Member

Leave intimidate alone. As stated by those above, strength builds need a skill to counter them, and it is fine the way it is. It doesn't make them take any more damage, just makes them do less to you. Malf and smoke make them take more damage, so should cost more in my opinion. dex and tech are also linked to more skills than strength, which is another reason they cost more.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
5/26/2014 14:49:20   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I'm actually gonna go ahead and agree with how intimidate is a very high-tiered skill that is overlooked. Those who don't know how to use it don't get much from it but when it's used correctly then its effects are tremendous. The damage mitigation I get from using it per battle as a BM is honestly ridiculous, especially with yeti + azrael's will synergy (even without these items you still can get great effectiveness from intimidate).

But if you're gonna nerf it then don't add a dex requirement. It wouldn't do anything since most builds that correctly utilize intimidate are either strength/dex or focus/tank builds. Support might seem viable but I've tried support BM multiple times and it just doesn't have enough damage output. Dex scaling might be nice to encourage dex caster builds since BM has caster skills but can't really run a build to utilize them well, but energy parasite's a staple skill in almost all BM builds and the support requirement will boost intimidate, energy shield, and reflex boost's effects anyways.

Making it cost more is also a bad idea, mainly because BM's entire kit is revolved entirely around low-costing skills and consistent low-EP gain per turn from energy parasite. Your nerf suggestions will probably take away any unique playstyle there is to non-strength BMs.

As for merc, it is an amazing skill on their tree too, but raising EP costs wouldn't really change too much since static smash drains tons of EP anyways and 1 static smash = 1 more skill use of almost any kind.

Overall the best nerf IMO would just be to reduce the on-hit damage to 85% strike damage or something. Strength builds gain too much benefit from the on-hit damage plus the low energy cost and strong debuff, but nerfing low energy cost and/or debuff effectiveness wouldn't make the skill that useful, especially since the strength debuff can be worked around by stalling with auxiliary, caster skills, robots, energy steals, heals, etc...
Epic  Post #: 7
5/26/2014 15:42:31   
Rui.
Banned

 

 I completely agree on this.. Intimidate was justified in the past since mercs/blood mages didn't have a way to get back energy. It was justified in the past... but now since both the classes can regen energy back .. It has to be made at par with the other debuff skills. They should make all debuffs scale equal and cost the same.

< Message edited by Rui. -- 5/26/2014 15:43:27 >
Post #: 8
5/26/2014 15:54:57   
ScarletReaper
Member

Still don't think it is on par with the other debuffs though. yes it makes your opponent do less damage, but it only stops 1 kind of build. malf and smoke screen stop tanks, and dex and tech abusers in their tracks on top of making you do more damage to them.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
5/26/2014 16:02:40   
Rui.
Banned

 

 Every class has a counter for smoke and malf... All classes have 2 shields .. Only 2 classes can improve their strength ... Try to look at things from all perspectives !

Post #: 10
5/26/2014 16:27:49   
Mother1
Member

@ rui.

Ever hear of energy drains and the assault bot? Both of these are counters to all debuffs including intimidate. Plus nerfing intimidate is the equal to buffing strength which right now is more rewarding to use than dex, tech, support, and focus.
Epic  Post #: 11
5/26/2014 21:20:48   
GearzHeadz
Member

I thought everyone agreed in the forums that saying an item as a counter isn't a great idea, and you have said so in the past yourself, Mother1. Energy drains I can understand as a counter, but it is a skill with a very low EP cost.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
5/26/2014 21:57:44   
Mother1
Member

@ Gearheadz

The assault bot's primary purpose is to be a free reuseable counter to debuffs and that was the only reason I brought it up. Kind of like cores were originally was to fill up holes for what the classes formerly lacked.

Most other items I remember being brought up in the past had a secondary effect of stopping something.
Epic  Post #: 13
5/26/2014 23:50:55   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Intimidate, if anything, is actually pretty weak. It's only useful against high strength builds but you have to have Intimidate invested heavily into in order to actually put a big enough dent into a strength build's damage output. Used against any other build, and they just laugh as they use their skills, aux, cores and even robots to completely go around the strength debuff. You could try and circumvent that by waiting until after they use all their energy up, but they still generally have their bot and aux left to use, assuming the fight hasn't ended already.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
5/27/2014 0:10:11   
GearzHeadz
Member

Actually it on average will drain 22 str points or remove points of 66 damage from the enemies str based skills, higher if its a % skill, at level 1 for only 95 EP. So investing into it isn't actually that hard.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
5/27/2014 3:54:58   
zion
Member

No offense NDM, but man is Xendran right....
Since things don't scale by percentages, intimidate will obviously have a much stronger effect on those with lower str...
A low-medium intimidate is essentially a free move that can cripple a focus build on str-based turns - bots are relatively weak for attacking and auxes only come around every 4 moves. And what about a medium-high str build? - completely destroyed by a medium-high intimidate.
Lets not even get into the discussion of the broken rage system where intimidate obviously has multiple benefits.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
5/27/2014 14:20:38   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Not supported. Skills good
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
5/27/2014 16:12:48   
santonik
Member

has anyone thought about how much is damage (primary) without STR.

exapmle is 40 lvl player

Sword 360 damage. whit out damage STR ​​stats.
Clubs, Wrist Blades and staffs 350 damage. whit out STR ​​stats.
The basic damage is high.
Intimitade cant reach weapons at all.
Do not forget the power of legend ranks. 30 damage (in theory) per round

I agree with much of ND Mallet.

The witch against the Intimitade is weak. even if it is really strong.

I've been playing this builds.
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Build the best support that I have've been omega time.

is this kind of

about 1500 HP

about 654 energy

The minimum strength

dex (about 300 defense)

Tech (about 300 defense)

-------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------



intimitade effect power is (mighty -48)


Here, if anywhere, should be really effective intimitade. But it is not.
the effect seems to be too flimsy.

Some builds can be rounded it totally.
Aux, bot and skills (tech, dex, support and heal)
intimitade cant reach those at all.

Today, the opponent is unable to STR based attacks to reset the way. (zero stregth to opponent)
Even if you can zero the opponent's STR. I have had to invest a lot of support stats that I get a (somewhat) effective intimitade.So you can not reset the primary (weapons) destructive power.
Every player know what weakness is support players. not so effective attack and defencive abiltys.


If i think 5 focus tank. it has good defence. Hybrid Armor is much better than intimitade.Same thing is Blood of mark. (my opinion) Hybrid armor can stop (almoust) ALL damage. Blood of mark heal you every turn. intimitade can be weaken little bit opponent STR based attacks. (this is normally very weak skill)


Few players think this too. Intimitade vs smoke/malf. I saying intimitade lose this now. biggest reason is this. Smoke/malf is 2 abilty. Decreases DEX/TECH stats. This means more blocks/deflection and more damage.
Intimitade isnt second abilty. Intimitadfe only weaken STR stat. (no effect other stats or skill [non str based])


it would be nice to have two classes which could properly challenge the other STR builds whit INTIMITADE.Bloodmage and Mercenary.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Intimidate must be increased that debuff ability. (my opinion)

it is relative weak now.

Epic  Post #: 18
5/27/2014 19:42:27   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Going to point out that:

Field Medic + Mark of Blood + Intimidate (where MoB and Intimidate all cost fairly low amounts of EP) = BM is arguably the best stall class right now, rivaled by merc. In 1v1 I run level 7 intimidate on 45 support and most of the time reduce enemy strike damage for about 75 or so, and I use intimidate multiple times. On average I'd estimate VERY roughly intimidate mitigates around 125-150 damage per use while dealing strike damage and costing 185 energy. Worth it? I'd say so.

Also note that mercs have this kind of synergy:

Field Medic + Blood Commander + Intimidate + Static Smash (+maybe Hybrid Armor) = Another extremely strong setup with good damage output but particularly impressive stall potential. Static Smash's instant strong drain can shut down builds that require spamming of high EP cost skills, blood commander gives a somewhat weak but still helpful amount of lifesteal and a damage output buff, and intimidate just helps deal some damage while mitigating that nice extra damage which also helps. You can also slap hybrid armor on just to be really annoying but your EP will probably run dry quickly.

Given that intimidate is on 2 classes that previously already had the best stall/heal loop potential, and that these 2 classes also have blood commander/MoB which let you drain HP while on cast with intimidate and deal decent damage for a meager cost of 185 EP at the high skill point investment of level 7, I'm convinced it's quite broken right now, particularly since stall builds host one of the highest win rates since they can handle the ever-so-popular high HP + strength builds, and also beating tanky caster builds as well if built correctly. Nerfing its strength debuff would make it extremely inefficient given its EP cost, and increasing EP cost would severely limit its usage on classes that are already somewhat EP-thirsty (especially since energy parasite can get countered by a quick consumption of energy or static smash can get blocked, paired with Merc's high energy costs). I think the best course for nerfing it would reduce the on-hit damage.
Epic  Post #: 19
5/29/2014 10:07:37   
Seteriel
Member

Not supported.

Intimidate is perfectly fine - nerf it and you move further down the Str/HP spiral. We should seek ways to buff skills/stats/classes.
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
5/29/2014 13:28:22   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I think it needs a buff. maybe ignores 15% of def/res upon strike
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 21
5/29/2014 14:47:54   
GearzHeadz
Member

A buff? Can you justify that?

And str/hp do need to be dealt with, but that doesn't change this skills power.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
5/29/2014 15:07:45   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Sure, ill give it a shot. Intimidate needs a buff because of the reason stated above. We are progressing into a phase where high str high hp is not as big of a concern. Now its just strength, insane tank builds, and dex mages. Intimidate is such a specific skill that in most matches it is completely and utterly useless. In fact, it may be the only skill whose dependability relies solely upon your enemy. No matter what the case is, if I were a mage/ch i can always use malfunction against any opponent in order too lower his/hrr chance to deflect while increasing mine, or to lower his/her bot dmg. If i were a bh i could always use smokescreen, in any situation and against any opponent to lower his/her def, increase my chance to block, decrease his/her chance to block, and nerf a couple skills.

What doe intimidate do?

Intimidate lowers your enemies str therefore decreasing their primary and sidearm damage. Last time i checked the only skill that is scaled off of str is Fireball. Other than that, if you're not fighting against a bm or a high str build then you're out of luck because any f5 build will just bot, zooka, do some move that scales with tech/dex. By that time intimidate, which affected his/her weakest weapon anyway, will wear off and you just sit there with 8/9 skill points on a useless skill for that match.

No offense, but this thread was probably created because you are using a str build, but f5 builds, dex mages, and tank builds do exist.

It is for that reason I believe intimidate needs a buff.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 5/29/2014 15:18:52 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
5/29/2014 16:05:30   
Mother1
Member

@ the berseker killer

you are forgetting all melee based attacks since they work with the primary weapon which works with strength.
Epic  Post #: 24
5/29/2014 16:10:17   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Sure, it puts their melee moves on hold for 3 turns where they still use aux, bot, bunker/Multi/plasma cannon/overload/poison, you can take your pick really
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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