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9/12/2014 22:00:05   
theholyfighter
Member

The recent one was pretty nice on minor issues, but some of the main issues are still there.

1. Energy Parasite - The problem is the energy calculation and the amount not whether it's blockable.

2. Massacre - one remaining issue - needs a side effect

3. Str - a bit abusable

4. Sup - a bit unusable

Another HUGE problem -

1. Shadow Arts

< Message edited by theholyfighter -- 9/12/2014 22:07:35 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/12/2014 22:04:13   
suboto
Member

I feel the only thing that needs to be done to shadow arts is:
energy per lvl reduce to +10 from +15
or
make last 4turns from 3turns
due to the cost of the skill
The highest i would use is lvl3
lvl1 110 10%~~~>lvl1 110 10%
lvl2 125 13%~~~>lvl2 120 13%
lvl3 140 16%~~~>lvl3 130 16%
lvl4 155 18%~~~>lvl4 140 18%
lvl5 170 20%~~~>lvl5 150 20%
lvl6 185 22%~~~>lvl6 160 22%
lvl7 200 24%~~~>lvl7 170 24%
lvl8 215 26%~~~>lvl8 180 26%
lvl9 230 27%~~~>lvl9 190 27%
lvl10 245 28%~~~>lvl10 200 28%
In the current set up its only worth making it lvl3 why? because cost of energy and its the last 3% bonus
with the reduction in cost of energy as shown above i feel more free to raise it up to lvl8 as thats the last 2% bonus plus it would make the skill over all more useful for its cost of energy.
Similar to mark of blood i make mine lvl8 because thats the last 2% and the cost of the skill in energy is reasonable for what it does.
This skill was converted from passive to active so in a sense its similar to mark of blood but rather the opposite since its a protection from all dmg and mark of blood is a recover hp from dealing any dmg.
This is what needs to be done.

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/12/2014 22:22:46 >
Epic  Post #: 2
9/12/2014 22:09:06   
theholyfighter
Member

The problem with SA is that its function was rather dumb. Very little effect with a high cost.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
9/12/2014 22:10:16   
Mother1
Member

I have to ask why does Massacre need a side effect?
Epic  Post #: 4
9/12/2014 22:20:04   
theholyfighter
Member

That's what makes ultimates special. SuperCharge has Surgical Strike have side effects as well. With Massacre without a side effect, it's just a different Berserker.

I was thinking about it stacking damage based on rounds similar to IA, while not just improving with Str.
Or, damage calculation stays or tweaked with side effects. Rage steal, life steal, etc...
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
9/12/2014 22:20:29   
suboto
Member

I updated my post but i mentioned the cost needs a reduction why do i love this skill you may wonder?
counter to a field commander/blood commander buffed person
counter to the abyss robots
counter to 2 critical skills bunker and plasma cannon

< Message edited by suboto -- 9/12/2014 22:24:16 >
Epic  Post #: 6
9/12/2014 22:23:07   
theholyfighter
Member

So Rage is the reason for not using a shield? But the extra health you protected with shields should make up the Rage damage.
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
9/12/2014 22:26:03   
Mother1
Member

Massacre is 100% granteed damage no matter what when you use it unlike berserker which can be blocked. Plus unlike the other ultimates it isn't locked to one type of damage so that right there is something that makes massacre special.

Not to mention Massacre has a multiplier where as Surgical strike and Supercharge work off of flat numbers.

Since Massacre can do more damage then the other two that is why it doesn't need an effect. Supercharge and surgical strike are more tactical moves which is why they have their effects of health gain and rage reduction/armor piercing.
Epic  Post #: 8
9/12/2014 22:26:35   
suboto
Member

Well the skill could be used to counter rage very true and a great counter to IA robots
Example IA robot is at its +135% dmg turn use a lvl8 shadow arts that robot just did 107% dmg that turn now
Epic  Post #: 9
9/12/2014 22:47:32   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Well SA could be buffed like this: Strike and cripple your opponent. Lowers all the target's damage by a % for 3 turns.

With this, you can pick off the DPS opponent but you don't get the benefits to reduce the other guy's damage (like the current SA). But it would make the skill more useful in 2v2 since the player you attacked with SA deals less damage to all targets.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
9/12/2014 23:01:42   
theholyfighter
Member

@suboto
Personally I prefer shields still.
135% to 107% is 28% less. With 550. IA damage, it's a 154 damage reduction, which level 2-3 shields can do.

@Mother
Blockable or not shouldn't be the issue. SC and SS are guaranteed damage as well. Massacre providing damage isn't a problem actually, simply investments are needed. Massacre damage can be tweaked for a side effect in return as well, for the sake of ED variety and distinguishability among ultimates. Besides sideeffects makes Ultimates useful even when doing damage isn't your goal, for.example Rage reduction and health regeneration.
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
9/12/2014 23:10:20   
suboto
Member

I like the animation of shadow arts also another reason why i love it
Epic  Post #: 12
9/12/2014 23:22:12   
theholyfighter
Member

The animation could always stay :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
9/12/2014 23:39:40   
kosmo
Member
 

Shadow arts have a great effect, they massivly reduce energy drains, and they are the only shield that can impact rage; the issue whit them is the duration and the energy cost.

About balance update, i belive the only needed change was making parassite blokable, also the buff to emp and multi helped a bit, what im disappointed whit is the joke they did whit static granade, basically bringing 30 ep from drain to gain...

Whatever im hoping for this:

quote:

We’re currently exploring solutions for making Static Charge a little more consistent. The changes weren’t quite ready this week, but we hope to have them ready for the next patch.

and possibly major adjustments nxt week.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 9/12/2014 23:40:00 >
Epic  Post #: 14
9/13/2014 2:41:33   
Satafou
Member

Shadow arts is a lot more powerful than you think, there's a little hidden secret in shadow arts and perhaps because of that is why they're so hesitant to buff it.
Post #: 15
9/13/2014 6:03:44   
Justingbieberfangirl
Member
 

Well this made balance a little bit better but still a lot of problems remain...

Cores/some clearly better than others some worse.

Strength seriously now.

Counter-play why? If someone uses a shield the other person grants a lot of rage. There are things which destroy shields e.g. the azreals aux.
Also now it looks like class vs class.... something like this
BM wins TM
TM wins Tlm
Tlm wins Bm
and so on. The builds dont matter as much. And almost no skill is required. If they want the game to be energy based then replace skills that have eather doubles (e.g. battery backup, massacre ect.)
With skills like "Immunity" You are now immune to energy drains for 3 turns. Costs 5% hp. The higher upgraded the skill is the less hp it costs to use.


Support needs to improve something such as heal or maybe energy flow. E.g. with every 5 support you are 1% less affected by energy drains. And by 0.5 your energy drains/gains become stronger.
So it would be interesting for example to tech mages as they can eather get higher resistence to drains and higher drain by small % by using support or they can increase their gain by higher % but would be vulnerable to drains.
Also a quick mention that heal as is now is too useful. Y? Well max level heal gives you 633 hp (More if you have crit heal) And costs 350 energy.(also cures poison) Whats wrong with that?
considering u have rank 20 + and maxed your res/def you have 100 basic res and def + 60 with armor so around 160 def/res. You would need at least 177 dex + MAX plasma rain to do the same damage IF THEY HAVE MINIMUM defences. And normally people have around 300ish so heal is even stronger. This has been ever since heal ISNT improved by support.


Ranks need to get changed. That is the bottom line.

Health is a little bit too strong maybe it could have something as cores/skills that work of your enemy max health.

Classes are getting more and more similar.
Class passives is def a solution I am a big fan of. E.g. Mercs have ''hybrid armor''. +50 def and res.
Bonty have the ''wraith'' +5% damage increase.
Tlms could have ''hard counter'' they are more resistant to basic attacks by 10% (strike, gun and aux)
Any way you get the point.

I understand that they need to get the balance tool out first and that the balance is a tiny bit better but it still has far ways to go.

They know what the community wants so give them time. And hopefully they will introduce some cool features.
Post #: 16
9/13/2014 10:39:31   
The berserker killer
Member

 

they should mmake static charge do 110% dmgif they are looking for a buff
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
9/13/2014 10:40:25   
suboto
Member

quote:

Dont get me wrong balance is good to have but its possible to have too much balance.
Things players enjoyed taken away:
NPC's in battle during war
ENCHANTMENTS~~>changed into legend ranks (players are not likeing this wide range of stuff they must do just to compete after hitting the cap. I myself would of loved just to of hit 40 and have that been the cap rather then +60ranks to do.
BATTLE TOKENS~~>Credits. Although its thought to be a good thing seeing as we earn more credits but wheres the fun in purchaseing achievements anymore?
PASSIVES~~>Actives this damaged the game way more then thought to of done why? Because this made the game be AWHOLE LOT more focus on energy
CLASS PASSIVES~~>CLASS ACTIVES~~~> THIS damaged the games balance why? it made the classes practically the same and rose the the game based on pure energy
Return of: any of the above would result in a population increase
My favorite mode was delta why? We had 6 classes to enjoy. Everyone had passives that made the class different. Enchantments were around. Battle tokens were around. NPCs in battle was around.
A start to making the game fun again is Passives returns until that is done im afraid the population will remain at a all time low. Ever heard of a movie called the giver? well thats what the game has turned into the movie the giver. We arent meant to be clones of one another we should sand out from one another classs wise.
This is comeing from a player thats been around since beta

This is how i feel about balance now
Epic  Post #: 18
9/13/2014 14:23:53   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Massacre doesn't need a "special effect." It's special effect is that it's the highest damage potential skill in the game. It literally just does... TONS OF DAMAGE.
Epic  Post #: 19
9/13/2014 14:36:05   
Remorse
Member

^Plus there is nothing wrong with massacre, the only reason it's not often used is because of the brocken energy focused meta the game is in.

In fact all these balance changes are in some way to make skills fit this energy meta...

Dex spells are fine, battery backup isn't.

Unless they wish for this energy meta to stay then pretty much all of these changes are pointless and would in some cases need reverting if they ever decieded they want to actually fix the game.

And if they don't wish to fix this energy brocken meta then there is no hope for the game, I would appreciate it if this was their intention to inform us so those hoping for the game they liked to return can finally quit properly.
Epic  Post #: 20
9/13/2014 14:41:01   
Ranloth
Banned


quote:

ENERGY FLOW
With recent updates adding energy costs to cores, and reworking passive skills into useable skills, energy management has become much more important. We feel that this is an important aspect to managing the pace of a fight, but certain things are a little out of line, so we want to review the system in general to make it fit better with the updated skills.

The major changes here include:
  • Increasing the amount of Energy players have.
  • In general, lowering the impact of energy draining effects. These have become much stronger now that Energy is a more important resource, so they just need a little nudge to bring them in line.
  • Adjusting energy gain on each class. Examples include giving Bounty Hunters a reliable way to generate energy, reducing Tech Mage energy generation, and adjusting Static Smash to be more useful.

    Nearly every energy-affecting class skill has been adjusted in some way. We hope that this will improve the strategies around Energy management and help push the pacing of battle into a more interesting direction.
  • Source: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21510050

    Energy management is here to stay, and skills won't be removed from x class because they "shouldn't have it" due to "variety", or whatever the reason may be given. Whether EP will be revamped or not, there's no answer - because you cannot expect major changes fast, even more so that other factors (stats) contribute to its imbalance, so all six stats would have to be revamped at once - and to do that, you would also have to rebalance some skills to prevent any major imbalance, therefore, it won't happen just like that.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 21
    9/13/2014 15:06:03   
    Remorse
    Member

    ^

    That is actually the info I wanted from them.

    Now I can understand the direction they want ro move.

    The proposed change above I think is an ok step, partly solving high energy contraints in the current meta will hopefully help the mechanics of the game a lot.

    I don't expect mega changes, I expect them to have a plan.

    Before this I just assumed they didn't even care about the energy constraints considering how long they left it in the highly brocken state.

    Plus changing this meta would be more like returining an old one.

    So if anything needed "an all stat revamp" it would of been the passive to active change, not the major change that fixed its mistakes.

    I don't care how long they need to do something, I care whether or not they actually plan on doing something, and if that something is the right thing.






    < Message edited by Remorse -- 9/13/2014 15:14:42 >
    Epic  Post #: 22
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