A few possible balance changes


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1/5/2017 14:19:38

Warmaker04
Member

Make malfunction's scaling with dex
Make reflex boost's scaling with tech
Nerf all multi shot attacks % of damage to multi targets from 85% to 80%
Decrease the chance of stun of Stun/Plasma grenades and overload by 5%
Buff the chance of stun of Maul by 2x

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 1/5/2017 14:21:07 >

AQW

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Post #: 1

1/5/2017 14:38:35

Mother1
Member

Maul's ability to stun scales with the level the person has the maul ability meaning unlike the other stun moves it isn't 100% fix by level.
Also Multi attack's currently do 90% damage to two opponents not 85% thanks to a past balance change prior to the nerfing of them with the latest one.

Though I am curious to ask why do you wish to nerf all the other stun moves of every other class by 5% while increasing merc's stun chance X2 for the entire class?

I am also curious about the other changes you suggested to TM and CH Malfunction and BM and and BH reflex boost scaling with tech as well.

But on another note I can't support the maul buff. Even at it's lowest with said buff it would have a 32% chance to stun which is far higher than any of the other stun moves even without the change to them and at it's max level it will have a 84% chance of stun which is nuts. Even if it is blockable with a high energy cost at max level this is still far to OP for this move.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 1/5/2017 14:46:05 >

Epic

Post #: 2

1/5/2017 21:01:48

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

Why do you think these changes will help the game? If you provide some more context on your thoughts, it'll be a lot easier to discuss and will make your suggestions easier to understand.

If you just have a list of changes but you don't state why they should be in the game, it's hard for other users as well as the balance team to consider whether or not your suggestion should be implemented.

Epic

Post #: 3

1/6/2017 5:44:12

Warmaker04
Member

quote:

Why do you think these changes will help the game? If you provide some more context on your thoughts, it'll be a lot easier to discuss and will make your suggestions easier to understand.

If you just have a list of changes but you don't state why they should be in the game, it's hard for other users as well as the balance team to consider whether or not your suggestion should be implemented.

Yeah.

quote:

Also Multi attack's currently do 90% damage to two opponents not 85% thanks to a past balance change prior to the nerfing of them with the latest one.

My bad, well nerf them back to 85%

quote:

Make malfunction's scaling with dex and make reflex boost's scaling with tech

As... you know... both Defense Matrix and Energy Shield scale with support (they provide def & res) but Technician and Reflex Boost provide dex & tech and it makes no sense to me if either of them scales with support because the shields (Defense Matrix and Energy Shield) already scale with support. So I am saying that :

Technician scales with Dexterity (+ tech, + dex) therefore Reflex Boost should scale with Technology (+dex, + tech)
Smoke Screen scales with Technology (- dex, + tech) therefore Malfunction should scale with Dexterity (+ dex, - tech)

What will happen if these changes get implemented? Well, tech mages' and cyber hunters' dex builds will get buffed :

Cyber Hunters will be able to do combinations such as Malfunction + Multi-shot or even Malfunction + Plasma Grenade (at lower tech because of the new high effect of Malfunction) while they will still be able to create high tech builds that only work with Plasma Grenade. Even when CH's use a 5 focus build, malfunction will still be powerful due to its scaling with tech. That doesn't make Malfunction op, it can easily be countered with shields. But, if you have A LOOOT OF DEX and 250 resistance as a Cyber Hunter and you get malfunctioned, this is very bad because the Plasma Armor won't be able to keep you alive for long and it is very possible that you might die in 2 hits. While this will provide a buff to Dexterity and 5 focus Cyber Hunters, it will also provide a big weakness in their resistance if the Cyber Hunter doesn't put any points in tech so this is what doesn't make it overpowered.

Same goes for Tech Mages. They will be able to do combinations such as Malfunction + Plasma Rain, Malfunction + Plasma Bolt (at average tech because of the higher effect the Malfunction provides) or even Malfunction + Overload (at lower support due to the higher effect the Malfunction provides).

quote:

Decrease the chance of stun of Stun/Plasma grenades and overload by 5% and buff the chance of stun of Maul by 2x

I am changing this to :

Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade's % of stun chance should be reduced to 20%
Overload's % of stun chance stays at 25% (due to its scaling with support)
Maul's % of stun chance stays at 2x

First of all, the Maul is a blockable stun skill, which means it does not guarantee a successful hit unlike the other stun skills that have 25% stun chance right from the start. The energy cost of a maxed Maul is simply too much for a just 40% stun chance (including the possibility of a block). The Maul at an average level will be also more strategic in 2vs2 (especially at a maxed level, where the stun chance will be 86%), so it could be a game-changer. This will buff pure STR mercenaries as they will be able to do combinations such as Maul + Berserker but they will also have to invest some stat points in tech to max the Maul and also put some points in dex to max the Berserker. And I think it is a bit difficult for them to have all of the skills maxed out -> Blood Commander, Maul, Berserker and Static Smasher OR Blood Commander, Double Strike, Maul and Static Smasher. Not to mention they will start second everytime due to their low support and their opponents will be able to come up with a defensive move or something else.

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 1/6/2017 5:51:34 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 4

1/6/2017 6:03:02

Warmaker04
Member

Also for Blood Commander : Only attacks involving the Primary Weapon will grant lifesteal.

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Epic

Post #: 5

1/6/2017 6:53:02

crownthedeadman
Member

i dont really think that reflex boost and all those other stat boost should scale with their respective skill. That would again make one stat spam also support scaling is already fine so i dont have any problem with that.

Post #: 6

1/7/2017 5:16:15

Warmaker04
Member

You should explain why you don't think so. How is it positive and negative?

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Epic

Post #: 7

1/7/2017 15:19:58

Stonehawk
Member

quote:

Technician scales with Dexterity (+ tech, + dex) therefore Reflex Boost should scale with Technology (+dex, + tech)
Smoke Screen scales with Technology (- dex, + tech) therefore Malfunction should scale with Dexterity (+ dex, - tech)

This somehow makes sense. Therefore I don't agree because defensive skills are made to SUPPORT the player, so they improve with support. I would even say technician would improve with support aswell, I don't know why exactly it improves with dexterity.

Only thing I kinda agree is Maul, it really is not worth increasing it to more than lvl 1 if it's only a small % chance to stun increased.
Instead, I'd increase the defense ignored instead of stun chance, and stun chance could be same as the other skills (30%). The reason is that this is the only skill that the luck factor is increased with its level, while all the others are truly stronger as they level up.

You can max maul but it will hardly hit a high dexterity, so it will certainly be a waste of energy and skill points. By making it increase defense ignore, it will be a powerful attack if you choose to max it. Powerful but blockable, which will be its drawback. In fact, it will be similar to current cheap shot (which I don't agree with the way it works either but I'll probably talk about it in another post), but also with FIXED stun chance. And it already costs higher.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 8

1/7/2017 16:04:49

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

Support, as you stated, is a stat meant to bring utility to fights, hence why it buffs stuff like reflex boost, energy shield, and defense matrix. However, when you get just one or two skills out of the entire pool that's different, that's what makes the skill unique and really really cool, which is why I think technician should still stay as dex, and just be rebalanced if it needs to be.

Regarding maul, a lot of skills in general in ED have really trashy rank-up ratios. They honestly need to have a lot more power in each skill point invested or something. It's another change that I really hope happens.

Epic

Post #: 9

1/8/2017 3:03:29

Warmaker04
Member

Well, just because Reflex Boost is a support skill, that doesn't mean it 100% has to improve with tech. Defense Matrix and Energy Shield support (defenses & resistances) while Reflex Boost and Technician support (dex & tech). Defensive skills are only Defense Matrix and Energy Shield, this is why they improve with support but... Reflex Boost and Technician do not only improve one's defenses/resistances - they also buff a certain stat of a player which powers up players' skills and their guns / robots, so it is something more than just a defensive skill. These two are also used for strategic reasons during a battle so I can't agree with Stonehawk at this point. And if Technician scales with dex then honestly I don't see a reason why Reflex Boost shouldn't scale with tech as well as it makes perfect sense to me

If Technician improved with support, this would definitely make support tech mages overpowered. This way both shields (Defense Matrix and Technician) will be super effective and ALSO, it would be very possible to see a support mage trying to even come up with a build such as Technician + Plasma Bolt (even though it is a support mage) due to the high effect of technician. They will have decent tech after using technician, decent chance of deflecting, good chance of critting (due to their high support) so it will definitely be an op build, without a doubt.

It would be interesting if we saw the other way around - Reflex Boost scaling with tech and Malfunction scaling with dex

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 1/8/2017 3:04:06 >

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Post #: 10

1/10/2017 21:15:19

Stonehawk
Member

@Warmaker04

Reflex boost doesn't increase with tech for the same reason technician doesn't increase with support. High tech builds mean better robot. If a skill that boosts another stat increase with tech, it will bring an OP focus build with high tech AND dex (unfortunately... all because my suggestion to make focus increase +10 on all weapons instead of +40 on robot was ignored)

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Post #: 11

1/19/2017 2:09:16

Warmaker04
Member

Sure, but your point is not valid. If technician doesn't improve with dex, but support, it won't create much chaos - instead, it will create more variety. Think about it. Dex tm builds are getting spammed and it is literally the only thing they spam

AQW

Epic

Post #: 12

1/19/2017 4:27:48

Mother1
Member

@ Warmaker04

Having too many skills needing one stat be it requirments to use said skill or to power it up will also cause imbalance in many forms as well, and for TM Dex and Support are tied with required/improving moves if you combine the two. Otherwise TM would have more skills scaling with support than they would Dex.

If fact if we go with the later only

Plasma rain
Technician

work with Dexterity

Where as

Malfuction
Defense matrix
Overload

All scale with support and adding Technician to the mix would make it so their would be 4 moves that scale with support and one that requires it which would make almost half the skill try needing support in one way or another which would also cramp variety of other builds as well.

But on another note if Reflex boost was to be switched to tech instead of support the scaling of this move would need to go down. I mean with base support if I were to max it out I could get 42 Dex from it which is much higher than any of the other stat boosting moves with support without invest so if I were to spam Tech with this new reflex boost? The amount of Dex I would be able to get would be even worse than the blood commander buff I could get from spamming support and unlike with the later I would have extremely high defenses along with it.

In other words it would be even worse than what you consider with Technician seeing as the scaling is far slower.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 1/19/2017 4:35:23 >

Epic	Post #: 13

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