Home  | Login  | Register  | Help  | Play 

Narrative & Prizes, Changes & Updates

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [AdventureQuest] >> AdventureQuest General Discussion >> Narrative & Prizes, Changes & Updates
Forum Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
5/5/2023 0:19:20   
Bannished Rogue
Member


quote:

Constructive Criticism

• What is it?

Constructive criticism is being able to process and offer your own thoughts and opinions in order to give courteous and friendly feedback. This is done by explaining what you like and dislike, while at the same time providing feedback that is useful. This is what separates constructive feedback from ranting/complaining and flaming.
Essentially a "compliment sandwich", while a common tool, is not indicative of nor should it be necessary or a requirement to be provided for criticism to be/deemed "constructive".

• Example of Constructive Criticism:
"I didn't partularly like this war because it felt too empty. To have made it better, I think the staff could have had a 50% cutscene to unlock rather than just a shop to progress the storyline. As it was, I personally was a little dissapointed that this war felt more rushed than previous wars, however I do understand that the staff had a lot on their plate when making this release.
That said, I greatly enjoyed the boss fight, the animations and art fit perfectly with the song that was playing in the background. So while not one of the best wars DF have done, I still enjoyed it. Thank you, DF staff!"
Saying you liked something, is the equivalent of saying, "just keep doing what you're doing"; which isn't constructive feedback, it's just a compliment. While I understand the provided is just an example, to suggest that this is necessary, is a disingenuous ego trip and skews perception of people's honest opinions.

• Example of Unconstructive Criticism:
"I didn't like this war at all. What were the staff thinking? The items in the shop were ugly, overpriced and were bugged!! No cutscene? That was never done before and it is not how it should be done ever. Seriously, doesn't the staff ever listen to us?! The boss fight was too hard and took forever to beat :( And there was no sound. I dont think the staff even care anymore. Best war ever /sarcasm I hate this game D:<!"
Or "I didn't partularly like this war, but I enjoyed the boss fight." This is also not constructive just because it has a compliment or because it doesn't only focus on the negative; this is just a criticsm and a compliment. The "constructive" part comes from the specific details that provide fair, logical, and actionable information that can be used to improve something.



That being said, lets see how well I can generate some constructive criticism.

Not to not beat around the ambush, this is.. in a sense, a continuation to the discussion regarding the popular opinion concerning the changes made to the Wrath armor, however this is MORE than just about that armor. That armor is just the most recent circumstance, thus easy to reference.
This recent circumstance has however, brought to light a few things I've noticed and obviously feel like is worthy of discussion; though I WILL do my best to attempt to not have too many different topics/variables/factors/things crammed into this in order to prevent multiple discussions that would probably be worthy if their own thread. I digress.

In the wake of the initiative to increase focus on the narrative of the plot going on with each quest. Which I appreciate, to an extent. It is has been my experience and observation that effort has taken away from the rewards in general.

Before I continue, I do want to throw in a curve ball. I actually do not have a single problem with the armor nor the changes made thereafter. I know, shocker. So why am I talking about the armor?

Speaking for myself, the armor or item alluded to from a quest is the primary thing that gets me interested in the story. The frostval "no way home" quest would not have been nearly as interesting for me if the armor that we got was the armor advertised in the plot of an alternate reality where the hero became omega, a vessel for the devourer. Believe me, I was drooling at the mouth at the thought of actually getting the armor for which I was pleasantly surprised.
I'm not sure if Staff understand that (i will go out on a limb on this, and I could be wrong but) without that initial appeal, I would venture to say most people just click through every quest and skip the story. Therefore to help with continued player investment and improved opinion, it is my opinion that the focus on the narrative has been generating a net negative return and that effort should be put back into items and equipment.

This circumstance has also brought to light the growing evidence that the process that items were made in the past was flawed and is now catching up to the Staff as evidenced by Ianthe's comment:
quote:

if we deliberately overpowered armor then the next time we release a Wind armour we'll also have to make it deliberately overpowered too or else what's the point? And then we have to do the same for all other armor elements, and then we have to update monsters so that they're not too easy, and then we'll have to release over-overpowered equipment, etc. etc. It's a vicious cycle we want to avoid.
Which is precisely the point, there are already too many "what's the point armors" that are just floating around existing in the game without any real viability for the current meta if the game. This is essentially a false sense of variety as everyone already uses pretty much the same armors or grit their teeth and use things less viable because they just like the aesthetic. No endgame player is seriously using the Yulgar's plate armors (save for the retro golden plate) unless they explicitly built their character to be a generic and plain as possible.

I am not saying that staff should start rapod firing a whole bunch of brand new armors. However a concern I've noticed, is that Staff seem to be so quick to act on an item they believe is too powerful, but that same energy is not applied to items that are "underpowered". This isnt to say Staff haven't been making ANY efforts to update/revamp items, that clearly isnt true. However, changes made to depower an item is made at a fever pitch break-neck speed without much concern to whether or not the item will be virtually ruined. There seems to be this weird fear the Staff project that the player will commit some sin against humanity to corrupt the game, like beating the Essence of Wind Dragon, thus must be stopped immediately at all costs.
However, this only prolongs the aforementioned underlying issue. I do not claim to know any special circumstances or reason, however my eyes see that, when the staff want to, they/you can make changes happen quickly and worry about the consequences later. Why is that same energy not given the otherway around? It seems like Staff would much rather let player satisfaction suffer.

Instead of the rapid firing new items, my proposed solution would be a new model by which items are generated from and "balanced" by having 5 different "types" of items in terms of use/viability (which generates actual variety):
plain Jane overall useful- generally good in most all situations, nothing unique however
class- I'm not talking about literal class armors, more so items that can be used in multiple situations, but very clearly is better at certain things than others
niche- items that are super good if not the best in very specific situations, but not most situations
hidden gem- items that on first appearance don't seem to be that useful. However if you put in the time and commitment to learning exactly how to use it properly and possibly finding the right combination of equipment, it really makes it surprisingly one of the best
temporary- items that as they are described, are temporary. However, for that nature, these should be stronger than your average item. Also it would also be smart to have multiple tiering of temporary items based on the difficulty of acquiring them. Take for instance the Dragonbane weapons would be a tier 2 or 3 temporary item, due to the difficulty of your average player mostly not being anywhere close to casually completing quest. This allows a condition for which allows items to be more powerful than a normal permanent weapon so players get to enjoy that version that is significantly more powerful, while also not forcing the players whom don't want to use an overpowered item (which is something I personally never understood, just don't use skill 3 then).

Niche, hidden gem, and temporary provide the feeling of having a fun extremely useful item, while also balancing themselves put based on their application/nature/acquisition.

The point is, all of these have viability and there are plenty of different factors that give enough variety potential (element, playstyle, aesthetic, narrative relevance, status effect, item type, etc.). Everything's already a mess, I say take advantage of the mess and start trying stuff, buffing stuff like how the Mark of Wrath was "corrected". There are plenty of items that could be given simple buffs (increase damage, MRM, decrease resistance modifiers, reduce costs, add affect etc.) That could bring them into relevancy and possessing legitimate viability.

< Message edited by Bannished Rogue -- 5/5/2023 0:40:08 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 1
5/5/2023 1:06:41   
  Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

 

quote:

In the wake of the initiative to increase focus on the narrative of the plot going on with each quest. Which I appreciate, to an extent. It is has been my experience and observation that effort has taken away from the rewards in general.


The existence of such an initiative, regardless of what 'increase focus on the narrative of the plot' is meant to entail, would be news to me. There have even been fewer main story quests and more mechanical revamps since 2019, when the seven-quest summer event included a trilogy as a prologue. Further, there is (And given the team composition, there can be) no such thing as a focus being taken away from items to go into the narrative. Not only has effort not been taken away from other development to work on the story; item development has intensified over the past four years. Complexity and power have both significantly crept, with respective examples being amount/variety of armor skills and the increase in how much damage can pay for effects in gear. Further, I'm slowly learning other quest design tasks so that the rest of the team can spend less of their time on quest setup. As of the writing, I do that entirely on my own, months ahead of release time and thus causing no delays or alterations to Kamui and Ianthe's design. Reckoning was written in early 2022.

I hope the fact that the observable trends and development logistics move in the exact opposite direction of this impression can assuage some concerns. With that part of the discussion completely addressed, let's move on to a key misconception:

quote:

However, changes made to depower an item is made at a fever pitch break-neck speed without much concern to whether or not the item will be virtually ruined. There seems to be this weird fear the Staff project that the player will commit some sin against humanity to corrupt the game, like beating the Essence of Wind Dragon, thus must be stopped immediately at all costs.


That narrative is inapplicable. Hopefully this explanation can be a sufficient reassurance: I would recommend reading the remainder of the thread this topic is branching from, as this was already explained to not be the nature of the change at all. We can dispense with the assumptions of intent when the intent, method, and circumstance have all been laid out as follows:

quote:

The reason the Reckoning skill was doing double damage was because it had leftover code from the NPC skill. Its damage was calculated as if it was split between two hits, and since it dealt two hits, it was dealing double damage.


A bug as simple as a 2 remaining where there should have been a 4 was noticed within 24 hours of release. It wasn't exactly breakneck speed work to replace one with the other; this was the fixing of a simple bug done in line with open requests that such changes be handled quickly, particularly those fixes that cause a loss of power. Once again, the fix was made before a day had passed, with Kamui performing it as soon as he had time to sleep and return to work the next day. Further, given the obvious problems with an item doing double damage and invalidating anything that doesn't arbitrarily go even further (To the detriment of the entire game), this wasn't done in any reckless disregard of ruining an item. To consider the armor ruined for not dealing double damage on one of its skills, we would have to either consider all burst spells useless, or see the armor as only having worth when it was so broken that it invalidated all other spell-based skills and nothing ever released in the future could compete. As the very post quoted in the main thread explains, that is a standard that we have extensively explained that we cannot engage in.

To address the sum of the thread's points: Please read the following explanation on what balance actually entails and how we actually operate when it comes to that subject. The purpose of that thread is to be able to get on the same page in the subject of balance, and feedback suggesting a complete change in our approach to balance invariably needs to be performed from such a position -- At the very minimum, to ensure that we are using the same definitions for the same terms and not operating on incompatible premises about what the team is actually doing.
Post #: 2
5/5/2023 1:10:09   
Korriban Gaming
Banned


As of the time of this post, I would say that I am reasonably satisfied with the Mark of Wrath armor in its current state. The only change I'm left waiting for is for The Cold status to be split into multiple stacks though this change won't be that soon. The second skill while having limited uses is at least more worth using now after the cost reduction. Third skill with the -20 BtH lean and gaining back some of the original damage is also in a good spot.

I feel like the outrage of the first change was cause by 2 main issues
1. It was simply too huge of a change, each skill got a 50% change, be it in cost or damage
2. The bug was painfully obvious and yet it wasn't spotted before the release was pushed out

Let's go into more detail regarding the 2nd point. How are releases tested? I'm heavily questioning if they are even tested at all. It takes less than a minute to use the skill one time against CPT to see that the damage or cost wasn't what it's supposed to be. This is not a difficult bug to spot at all. How it made through to release is beyond me. On top of that, the latest change to the cost of the 2nd skill was due to another error. So you're saying there's a bug in your bug fix. Do you realize how badly this reflects on the staff as a whole? This is why I agree with this statement
quote:

I am not saying that staff should start rapod firing a whole bunch of brand new armors. However a concern I've noticed, is that Staff seem to be so quick to act on an item they believe is too powerful, but that same energy is not applied to items that are "underpowered". This isnt to say Staff haven't been making ANY efforts to update/revamp items, that clearly isnt true. However, changes made to depower an item is made at a fever pitch break-neck speed without much concern to whether or not the item will be virtually ruined. There seems to be this weird fear the Staff project that the player will commit some sin against humanity to corrupt the game, like beating the Essence of Wind Dragon, thus must be stopped immediately at all costs.
However, this only prolongs the aforementioned underlying issue. I do not claim to know any special circumstances or reason, however my eyes see that, when the staff want to, they/you can make changes happen quickly and worry about the consequences later. Why is that same energy not given the otherway around?

The first change was so quickly done and yet, this not only resulted in another error being made in the process but also huge player backlash. It is commendable that new release stuff are getting fixed quickly but when it's to tone down the power of something, may I suggest that more care and testing be put into it before it gets rolled out? No one's going to complain if the newly released Iphone is getting a free chip upgrade, but the same cannot be said if it was a downgrade even if these were not intentional by the manufacturer to begin with.

quote:

Speaking for myself, the armor or item alluded to from a quest is the primary thing that gets me interested in the story. The frostval "no way home" quest would not have been nearly as interesting for me if the armor that we got was the armor advertised in the plot of an alternate reality where the hero became omega, a vessel for the devourer. Believe me, I was drooling at the mouth at the thought of actually getting the armor for which I was pleasantly surprised.
I'm not sure if Staff understand that (i will go out on a limb on this, and I could be wrong but) without that initial appeal, I would venture to say most people just click through every quest and skip the story. Therefore to help with continued player investment and improved opinion, it is my opinion that the focus on the narrative has been generating a net negative return and that effort should be put back into items and equipment.

I actually agree and feel the same. I think a good number of players would agree with this as well based off what I've seen. Is that a significant number in contrast to the entire playerbase? I don't know, but I do know that quite a few players feel this way. To their credit, I do feel that the writing has been improving constantly and I don't think there should be little to no effort put into writing, this is an RPG after all. But I will agree with your point that more focus should be put on items and equipment as I think that matters more to many players.

I would also like to take this opportunity to suggest that they "clean up" the writing for their Devourer Saga "revamps". All we get are new items, but how much time does it take to just look through the quest dialogue and correct the grammatical and spelling errors? Keep the original writing intact but at the very least, polish it up. I can tell you from reading through the revamped quests on video, it takes 30-45 mins on average and that is with combat, you can't tell me they don't even have the time to look through it.

quote:

It seems like Staff would much rather let player satisfaction suffer.

For myself and from many of the other players I've conversed with, I think they agree. Now, this might not be the intention of the staff and I don't believe it is either, but players feel that way based off the actions taken. Whether or not they deny this doesn't change players' POV because impressions are mainly formed from the actions taken as opposed to what was said. If you want this impression to change for the better, then take into account what I said above about taking more care with regards to changes that downgrades an item's power. Is the change correct? Are there errors in the changes itself? Does the changes make it too weak in practical combat? If yes, can it be changed in another way or can some flexibility be exercised with regards to the standards? If this doesn't stop, then this negative impression that people have will continue to perpetuate whether you like it or not.

quote:

• plain Jane overall useful- generally good in most all situations, nothing unique however
• class- I'm not talking about literal class armors, more so items that can be used in multiple situations, but very clearly is better at certain things than others

I like these ideas

quote:

• niche- items that are super good if not the best in very specific situations, but not most situations

I feel like niche items nowadays just aren't powerful enough in their particular niche. More often than not, general use items do an even better job. I don't see this as a powercreep issue, but rather, items that only work in a specific niche needs to be heavily buffed. E.g a weapon that's for slaying Vampires shouldn't be just getting some paltry 20-30% damage boost, we should be talking numbers like 50%, heck even 100%. To compensate, they can deal largely reduced damage vs anything else. E.g if a weapon deals +50% damage vs Vampires, then it deals -50% damage vs everything else. So every time I fight a Vampire, this niche item comes to mind first rather than some general use case item but I wouldn't dream of using it vs a Demon or a Werewolf etc. That's the whole point of niche items right?

quote:

• hidden gem- items that on first appearance don't seem to be that useful. However if you put in the time and commitment to learning exactly how to use it properly and possibly finding the right combination of equipment, it really makes it surprisingly one of the best

Or items that have some crazy good synergy with some obscure or less-used item

quote:

• temporary- items that as they are described, are temporary. However, for that nature, these should be stronger than your average item. Also it would also be smart to have multiple tiering of temporary items based on the difficulty of acquiring them. Take for instance the Dragonbane weapons would be a tier 2 or 3 temporary item, due to the difficulty of your average player mostly not being anywhere close to casually completing quest. This allows a condition for which allows items to be more powerful than a normal permanent weapon so players get to enjoy that version that is significantly more powerful, while also not forcing the players whom don't want to use an overpowered item (which is something I personally never understood, just don't use skill 3 then).

This I don't agree with. I don't think time should be wasted on crafting temporary items. I don't want to go on a long quest for some powerful temporary item just so I can use it in another long quest. And to do this every time I login? That's not for me, I just don't like wasting time on getting something that doesn't stay with me permanently and that I have to re-get every time.



< Message edited by Korriban Gaming -- 5/5/2023 1:22:37 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 3
5/5/2023 1:27:44   
  Ward_Point
Armchair Archivist


Tread very carefully.

You are free to disagree or be dissatisfied with Staff actions, but do not pretend that the Staff have not addressed the talking points made, or quote and twist Staff replies out of context.

This will be the only general warning this thread gets.
AQ  Post #: 4
5/5/2023 1:55:48   
Aura Knight
Banned


I've observed a quick to nerf, slow to buff response for items not working as intended. Whether rewards are too weak or too strong, the time spent fixing either should be equal. This may not be the reality but there tends to be more favoritism towards nerfs if an introduced item outdoes what was established as the meta for the time. I do think there needs to be items which are the true best for specific builds, however keeping them the best doesn't need to happen. The fear of outperforming existing gear or of preventing powercreep will only place the game in a stale state. Release weak items, add strong ones too. Variety is key in burnout prevention. Somehow fun and balance needs to mix.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 5
5/5/2023 3:30:47   
Broccoli
Member

Nerfs are self-contained to their respective items, buffs have to consider a variety of factors. It's entirely reasonable why one would occur more.
Post #: 6
5/5/2023 11:34:57   
Aura Knight
Banned


Didn't think of that. Thought each had equal impact.

The frustration of enjoying an item on release to have it be changed for the worse is something to not ignore. With the wrath armor, however, my reaction was mistakenly made. I tried the armor again and it's pretty decent. Skill costs for the most part are fair for the damage output. So the thought of devs trying to ruin my fun, not valid here.

On the topic of fun I'd say there's an unsolved challenge. One side will always lose out on their perception of what is enjoyable. Maybe adding an occasional powerful or unbalanced item can fix this. Doesn't even need to be permanent. Look to the assault knight for inspiration. You're put in a massive robot with capabilities to fight titan sized alien threats.

Use of temporary gear may help people who feel betrayed by balance to have fun.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 7
5/6/2023 13:47:00   
Bannished Rogue
Member


Responses to Lorekeeper:

It may not have been your intention to do so, however the totality of your response reads very much explicitly tailored to this one circumstance with this specific item rather than the underlying topic of concern. While I understand slightly because I did admit to using it as an example, however I did clarify this point when I stated:
quote:

Not to not beat around the ambush, this is.. in a sense, a continuation to the discussion regarding the popular opinion concerning the changes made to the Wrath armor, however this is MORE than just about that armor. That armor is just the most recent circumstance, thus easy to reference.
This recent circumstance has however, brought to light a few things I've noticed and obviously feel like is worthy of discussion.


The initiative on narrative again, is an observation. First, the assumption wasn't that there was an intentional trade happening (i.e: less armor and more narrative), but that focus is ultimately limited, 100% of focus can be given to multiple things on an individual basis, but from a team direction, not everything can be top priority. The observation was that something was begining to suffer from too much focus increased in a certain area and that there wasn't a balance of focus or an ideal distribution that provided a net positive. As someone who's been playing AQ since beginning of 2006, AQ used to take itself a lot less seriously narratively. I've noticed recently a lot more effort has been put into the narrative and roughly at the same time these issues either started happening or became more prevalent.
To be fair, this observation COULD just be a situation of correlation instead of causation. However, I am providing my feedback based off of the information visible to me. If it's not that, then I lack the constructive to that criticism and all that's left is just criticism.

To Korriban's point:
quote:

Now, this might not be the intention of the staff and I don't believe it is either, but players feel that way based off the actions taken. Whether or not they (Staff) deny this doesn't change players' POV because impressions are mainly formed from the actions taken as opposed to what was said.


Which brings up the other observation:
It is not lost on me the issue the reckoning skill had and why the supposed "bug" needed to be fixed/removed. Again I specifically mentioned not only not have any issues with the armor, but also that this is more than just the armor. However what we see as the player base is that changes were made that debuffed original perception of an item based on how it was originally presented.

Which while had to happen, while resources were shifted around to create a more balanced armor (increase SP costs, reduce damage, have multiple status stacks), we are still apparently waiting on the multiple stacking Cold Statuses.. Again, what we see at the player base is that Staff wanted to make changes to an item, something was overpowered and needed to be "corrected" and something was underpowered and was planned to be "corrected". We got all of the nerfs immediately but none of the buffs. This presents a perception of Staff willing to make break neck speed changes to nerf but not giving that same energy to buffs. This is not some request for a buff that is outside of balance standards, this is what the Staff said you were going to do. The reason for the outrage was because people felt like the armor was ruined (again, I personally don't have an issue with the armor), but the plan to balance out the armor by buffing something to compensate for the nerfing of something else so that too much viability wasn't lost still hasn't happened. This is what we see as a player base.
Is it not fair to say that if the plan is to nerf 1 part of a thing and buff another part of the same thing, that they would be released together? Or at least, if the double damage bug HAD to be fixed immediately,
that before the individual Cold stacking was finished, hold off on the extra SP charge and release those together? To me, that would be evidence to show that Staff care instead of making changes and being completelyfine with letting player satisfaction suffer.


Responses to Korriban:

quote:

I feel like niche items nowadays just aren't powerful enough in their particular niche.
I agree, another possibility would be more void triggers or element seeking with damage buffs and/or status inflictions and downtriggers against everything else like you mentioned.
If I know I'm going into darkovia. My general items should not be more useful than the items that are specifically made to be more affective against vampires/werewolves/werepyres/etc.

quote:

Or items that have some crazy good synergy with some obscure or less-used item
Agreed, this would also reduce the need for as many items to be updated if other items get special bonuses with them. E.g:
On top of other things, updating Whispering Raiment, that when equipping the assassin shields, adds additional MRM + what it provides in base, increases offensive lean damage without taking more in return, etc.. This would pretty much be the same thing as updating that useless shield without even touching it.

quote:

This I don't agree with. I don't think time should be wasted on crafting temporary items. I dont want to go on a long quest for some powerful temporary item just so I can use it in another long quest..... I just don't like wasting time on getting something that doesn't stay with me permanently and that I have to re-get every time
First, you don't HAVE to go get them, these are intended to be extra. Second, this functions fundamentally the same as the challenges during war where you shoot the monsters running from one screen to another that gives you a ranged attack bonus, which is also completely optional. You also don't have to jump from one to another, if you want to essentially just battle to Dragon Essences because the dragon bane weapons are all you want, that's your prerogative. However, like the ranged attack bonus war camp challenge, for the people willing to take a bit more of their time to get the buffs so that they are more effective going forward, that option is available to them.
I for one, hate how it feels like the only thing to do as an end game player, is log on once a week, do the weekly release if there is evern anything to do, and then log off and wait till next week. This would give me more things to do and get things worth getting that aren't just purely a waste of time.
I also think another thing in temporary form that could be a buffed version of the permanent, is lucretia's potions. Take for example, if I complete the items list for Lucretia for the dead-eye straight potion, I can then but it from her for gold anytime/unlimited times after for +6.8 BTH. But let's say I'm willing to go do the quest again to get "fresh" ingredients. Then I bring those back to her and she makes me a potion on the spot instead of just handing me one off the shelf that's been sitting there that gives +12 BTH. Again, all this is optional, if you log out and log back in, and you wanna just buy the potion and be on your way, you still have that option and you'll get the normal +6.8 BTH. This doesn't take anything away from anyone but gives players a reason to play AQ for longer and it be fruitful versus just replaying old missions just for the heck of it. Them being temporary would justify them being extra powerful instead of just another item.

< Message edited by Bannished Rogue -- 5/6/2023 14:10:33 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 8
5/6/2023 14:24:52   
Korriban Gaming
Banned


quote:

Nerfs are self-contained to their respective items, buffs have to consider a variety of factors. It's entirely reasonable why one would occur more.

I can kinda see what you're trying to get at but I disagree. Buffs are very much like nerfs, no item change is really self-contained in this game tbh because almost nothing in the game is used on its own. It's usually used in combination with another item, if not more. So any change, buff or nerf, has a variety of factors to consider.

quote:

Look to the assault knight for inspiration. You're put in a massive robot with capabilities to fight titan sized alien threats.

I feel like they did something similar when they let us play as Entropy in the recent quest or as Warlic a while back or even the time when we were able to play as Artix. Letting us go on a power trip as some other character once in a while is quite fun for me, though it is a shame that the power we wield in that moment is entirely contained within the quest itself (for good reason I guess). I think it would be nice if we can have more of such roleplaying quests in the future.

quote:

Is it not fair to say that if the plan is to nerf 1 part of a thing and buff another part of the same thing, that they would be released together? Or at least, if the double damage bug HAD to be fixed immediately,
that before the individual Cold stacking was finished, hold off on the extra SP charge and release those together? To me, that would be evidence to show that Staff care instead of making changes and being completelyfine with letting player satisfaction suffer.

Exactly! I, too don't understand why the negative part of the change was pushed out first in such a hurry when the positive part had to take a longer time to be pushed out. Why not push them out together? I know this goes against what we asked for (timely changes to new releases), but to me, there is no point in pushing out a half-change, in fact, it's worse than making no changes at all as you can see from what happened with the armor this time because only the negative part of the change was pushed out. Do it once and do it good, not do a half-job many times.

quote:

First, you don't HAVE to go get them, these are intended to be extra. Second, this functions fundamentally the same as the challenges during war where you shoot the monsters running from one screen to another that gives you a ranged attack bonus, which is also completely optional. You also don't have to jump from one to another, if you want to essentially just battle to Dragon Essences because the dragon bane weapons are all you want, that's your prerogative. However, like the ranged attack bonus war camp challenge, for the people willing to take a bit more of their time to get the buffs so that they are more effective going forward, that option is available to them.
I for one, hate how it feels like the only thing to do as an end game player, is log on once a week, do the weekly release if there is evern anything to do, and then log off and wait till next week. This would give me more things to do and get things worth getting that aren't just purely a waste of time.
I also think another thing in temporary form that could be a buffed version of the permanent, is lucretia's potions. Take for example, if I complete the items list for Lucretia for the dead-eye straight potion, I can then but it from her for gold anytime/unlimited times after for +6.8 BTH. But let's say I'm willing to go do the quest again to get "fresh" ingredients. Then I bring those back to her and she makes me a potion on the spot instead of just handing me one off the shelf that's been sitting there that gives +12 BTH. Again, all this is optional, if you log out and log back in, and you wanna just buy the potion and be on your way, you still have that option and you'll get the normal +6.8 BTH. This doesn't take anything away from anyone but gives players a reason to play AQ for longer and it be fruitful versus just replaying old missions just for the heck of it. Them being temporary would justify them being extra powerful instead of just another item.

Fair enough. I guess I just like that I only have to commit 30 mins to an hour per week currently on the game to be fully caught up but you're right that these temporary items are completely optional.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 9
5/6/2023 15:58:00   
  Lorekeeper
And Pun-isher

 

quote:

may not have been your intention to do so, however the totality of your response reads very much explicitly tailored to this one circumstance with this specific item rather than the underlying topic of concern.


Provided that one skips the majority of my post referring to general development structure and practices, the remaining sentences would indeed refer to this one circumstance. That would be a minority of the post rather than the totality.

On the matter of narrative focus, there isn't a correlation to draw in the first place. Balance has been a priority for far longer than any recent focus on the story. However, the fact that Kamui and Ianthe no longer have to spend any time on writing allows for more balance work, such as projects and buffs yet to be acknowledged in this discussion. This has allowed for greater reward complexity on special occasions, as well as for class revamps to happen at all.

I would request that the above linked post on balance be read and acknowledged before continuing to discuss in this thread, as this notion of too much focus on balance requires alternative definitions rather than the ones actually at play. In order to have a discussion about a topic, we need to be using the same definitions for the same words, after all. Further, there is only so far any discussion can go if answers are dismissed or ignored outright.
Post #: 10
5/6/2023 20:27:34   
  Ward_Point
Armchair Archivist


That's it.

Staff have replied multiple times on the issues at hand about bug fixing. Cutting skill damage in half is a more straightforward fix than dealing with a Status system held together by spaghetti code. Lorekeeper stated multiple times that Ianthe is busy with plenty of back-end things of which the AQ Team is not willing to disclose at this point.

And once again on Temporary Items. Temporary items must still conform to the Balance Standards. Lucretia's potions already exist outside them. Swinging the scales further in player favour would make life too easy. You like to godmode. We get it.

You may not accept the explanations, but do not pretend that Staff did not give an answer.
AQ  Post #: 11
5/6/2023 21:30:22   
Aura Knight
Banned


quote:

Temporary items must still conform to the Balance Standards.


Some of the gear we're forced to use makes me doubt this. Yes they're in very specific events but their power goes beyond typical balance. At best you can say reward scaling is where the real balance lies. If you're one-hitting mobs it makes sense for the gold/xp to be less than a typical fight.

On the topic of bug fixing sometimes it seems like the convenient response. Trouble is easy to avoid by taking longer for a release too. Your audience is most likely adult so it's not like patience is impossible. We can wait longer.

AQ DF AQW  Post #: 12
5/6/2023 21:51:43   
Korriban Gaming
Banned


quote:

You may not accept the explanations, but do not pretend that Staff did not give an answer.

quote:

Further, there is only so far any discussion can go if answers are dismissed or ignored outright.

I'm a bit confused, when did we "pretend" that Staff did not give an answer? Can't we discuss further if we are dissatisfied with the given answer or is it the case whereby just because an answer is given, the discussion has to stop and we are to accept the answer whether we like it or not? This seems like an unnecessarily hostile attempt to silence the discussion. We get that this is an uncomfortable topic to talk about but that is all the more reason why we should talk about it rather than try to sweep it under the carpet. Player dissatisfaction would not only not go away but it would also increase further if we are not allowed to discuss it every time it is brought up. I do not believe the posts here have broken any of the rules. Yes, it is criticism but it is of the constructive nature as we're all giving suggestions on how to improve the game.

quote:

I would request that the above linked post on balance be read and acknowledged before continuing to discuss in this thread, as this notion of too much focus on balance requires alternative definitions rather than the ones actually at play. In order to have a discussion about a topic, we need to be using the same definitions for the same words, after all.

I believe everyone here is in agreement that the armor in its initial state needed to be changed. We are mainly questioning the way the change is done.
1. Why are there still errors in the changes? If the original version wasn't tested properly such that the double damage could slip through, shouldn't the changes at least be properly tested? (I.e the cost of the 2nd skill)
2. I understand some changes takes longer to implement. Why then must it be done in parts rather than at the same time? Would it not be possible to just wait till everything is in order and do 1 perfect change rather than many small and imperfect changes?


AQ DF AQW  Post #: 13
5/7/2023 5:41:38   
  Ward_Point
Armchair Archivist


Actually. No, Korriban.

Contrary to your belief, this forum is not a platform for you to repeatedly air your discontent despite repeated replies by Staff to temper expectations and the fairly transparent way Lorekeeper has been communicating in good faith about the bug fix.

Once is quite enough. We get it. A bug made its way into the game that we all love.

Simply put, and this is very typical of any general working situation, is that the Dev team fixed the major bug (2x damage) while the arguably minor bug (Cold stacking) was fixed a little later. As an actual client facing engineer in my day job, this actually makes a lot of sense, fix what I can to mitigate the worst of the situation, then follow up with the complete fix later.

This entire conversation about the Mark of Wrath fix basically went as follows:

quote:

'I represent the playerbase, and I demand to know why such a bug made it into the game?'

AQ Team: Sorry, we're perpetually short on manpower. Ianthe's a little busy with back end things we don't want to talk about right now. We're gonna fix the worst of the bug, being the 2x damage, and follow up with the incorrect Cold Stacking later.

'Why didn't you fix both at once?'

AQ Team: Because the damage bug is a pretty major issue that is solved comparatively easily by changing a single integer. It invalidates every other Wind armour with a skill if we don't fix it. Cold stacking is an issue with the status system that is a little more difficult to fix. It needs more time and effort, so we pushed through the damage fix first.

'But why wasn't it done in the way I prefer it?'

AQ Team: Ermmm... See above.

'But why?!'

AQ Team: Please see the above

'But why?!'

Ward Mod: Enough. /Thread lock


Once again, the forum is not the place to repeatedly grief about how the AQ Team seemingly doesn't work in your preferred way. Some of the issues here are also better discussed in Suggestions as that is where those ideas belong.
AQ  Post #: 14
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [AdventureQuest] >> AdventureQuest General Discussion >> Narrative & Prizes, Changes & Updates
Jump to:






Icon Legend
New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition