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5/22/2010 19:37:36

Rhia Shirubia
Member

Just as the title says, I'm suggesting a way for the general public to provide the staff with productive/constructive criticisms and feedback.
I've worked over many different sites before and still surprised how this community is held together, especially for the general targeted audiences.
the forums are confusing, they are organized however when players generally require assistance or have a question, the most that happens is a swift lock from eager moderators and confusing guidance (or no guidance at all)

Allowing the community a chance to give any anonymous feedback on how the staff or moderating staff can improve would help build this community to a higher potential, I've had it done many times before and assuming the feedback is actually read, it can be used to greatly benefit both sides, the staff and the players. From what i gather clearly AE is trying to build a great player community, but i can't see how this can be done without player feedback, we have suggestions, but they are not the same as providing feedback.

Anyways i guess that's all i really have to say about it, I'd personally like to see that leap forward to further benefit the community as a whole, with that if there is a way to provide feedback currently, please link me to it, if it does exist currently, i don't think I'd be able to understand why it isn't in public view (hidden)

**Note i'm not suggesting feedback towards specific individuals, i mean feedback towards the entire team as a whole.

AQW

Post #: 1

5/22/2010 19:47:27

Valosity
Member

I think that feedback that will be read and possibly taken into action would be managed by Circe, the head Administrator.

In my opinion, theese forums are fasr clearer then most. But, that aside, having anonymous feedback would be exremly hard. Yeah, sure, most forum hosters (probably like ASPPPlayerground.net) have a guest posting option. If a subforum (probably and poissibly off of this forum, Forum suggestions) were to be made allowing users to just post while being logged out, and give feedback no one knows who it's coming from, would be awesome and horrid.
It would be awesome because it would allow people to give negative and posative feedback to staff without ANYONE knowing who said it, so if it's a bad idea, no one will know who to blame it on. And, this will allow staff to improve greatly, if possible.
It would be horrid because someone could just come in, and start doing so many things that is against the rules, and a ban would not be able to happen. There would have to be a large amount of Archknights (Those who have already been promoted are busy, so this would be a problem) and Moderators constantly looking at the board. Because, many users will not always stick to the rules unless needed, and may become reckless and mean, not to meantion law-breaking.

There are a few postive parts of this idea, but also negative.

~Valo

Post #: 2

5/22/2010 19:50:53

Rhia Shirubia
Member

I think your taking the idea in a poor direction, I never said anything about a "guest" feature,
one way to do this sort of thing is setting up a google spreadsheet, they can create a form for players to fill out where all data collected moves to a hidden spreadsheet for staff review.

AQW

Post #: 3

5/22/2010 19:56:30

Sir Gnome
Member

My first question after reading this would be why you feel anonymity is needed when providing constructive criticism and giving feedback. We are NOT about to punish people for giving either or these things, assuming they are phrased in a constructive and polite manner. Ideas for the improvement of any of our boards can be given right here in Forum Suggestions, where they will definitely be read by the Forum Staff, and in the case of things specific to one board here, pointed out to the Head Moderator of that board.

In my opinion, requiring that people are NOT anonymous while posting such things ensures that what they post will be better thought out and more likely to be constructive criticism than simply criticism.

Post #: 4

5/22/2010 20:00:57

Rhia Shirubia
Member

Just as simply done, generally some players don't like having names attached to their criticism (at least from alternative experiences) however it really doesn't matter either way, it's just a general idea which i feel should be developed to further improve the community

Edit: adding onto that, where as the forum suggestions forum is there for ideas to be developed, it isn't an exact place for criticism (which oddly i could see being locked)
A specific forum made for such a purpose would be great, assuming the link is put on display where anyone can see it without digging

< Message edited by Rhia Shirubia -- 5/22/2010 20:03:26 >

AQW

Post #: 5

5/22/2010 20:02:42

Valosity
Member

As for what I said, you said the users would not be known who they are. A guest feature would be basically that.

As for what Sir Gnome says, I think that's right. Although, I think that if users wish to suggest something for the forum and they do not want people to know it was them suggesting it (For whatever reason you may have) they could try and PM an Administrator or Moderator about this. Correct?

~Valo

Post #: 6

5/22/2010 20:06:44

Rhia Shirubia
Member

For the record, i don't have any reason to hide my name towards any ideas or feedback I'd suggest, the anonymity thing was generally for others, we all know not everyone wishes for their voice to be displayed publicly for any given reason, which is where that part of the suggestion came from, not required in anyway.

AQW

Post #: 7

5/22/2010 20:10:52

Sir Gnome
Member

Well, if the suggestion is board specific, and you have a special desire to be anonymous to the general community, then you can always PM the Head Moderator of the board in question directly (although I should note that this really should only be in special circumstances; the Forum Suggestions board is here to be used

). As the description of this board says: "Post all your forum-related feedback and suggestions here. ". Another board like you're suggesting would serve a very similar purpose, and for many reasons, not least of which that we don't have infinite moderating staff, its best not to have multiple boards for exactly the same material.

As to "adding onto that, where as the forum suggestions forum is there for ideas to be developed, it isn't an exact place for criticism (which oddly i could see being locked) " - Just saying "This is broken" probably would be locked, as that's not constructive. Saying "I think X in Board Y is a real issue, but I think Z would really help fix that" would not be locked though.

Post #: 8

5/22/2010 20:19:16

Rhia Shirubia
Member

I think your still missing the point towards the suggestion, it would not be serving an exact same purpose, it would be used to further benefit staff/mod - player relations benefiting the community interactions and forums as a whole, I know I'm not the only person who has feedback that could benefit how things are currently run, it's not really directly related towards "the forums" themselves rather "the people running the forums"

For example,
I've personally seen threads locked for "being in the incorrect location" whether by accident or forum confusion (i can say the forums aren't really straight forward) without providing a link to a proper location OR actually answering the question, which i find generally entertaining as answering the question and then locking would remove the requirement to actually remake the thread elsewhere, also simply moving the thread would be just as simple as locking (just an extra few clicks) assuming a mod has the power to lock, I'd assume a mod would have the ability to move anywhere in the same forum in which they govern, that's just an example, hopefully something to allow you to further understand the idea.

AQW

Post #: 9

5/22/2010 20:27:49

Sir Gnome
Member

That sort of thing would be fine to post in this board; its got a fairly large scope

"How the forums are moderated" still comes under Forum Suggestions.

To answer your example:
I'm sorry that a link to the board the person was redirected to wasn't given, we aim to do that whenever we redirect people, either with a lock or a delete.
As to moving threads, we prefer to lock/delete over moving, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, many of the boards here have posting style requirements, some more strict that others (some have formats that must be used in either the body or title of the post). Getting people to visit the board that what they're after belongs in means that they can see what is normal for that board, and report their thread accordingly. Secondly, especially in for Questions, one might be able to find that a question has already asked something in a Q&A board, and that other members with the same question could find the answer there easily by looking at the Q&A board. Checking that nobody else has posted a question recently, or that the answer isn't contained in an FAQ, will generate an answer far more quickly than posting it in, say, a General Discussion board, and so we lock/delete and redirect so the user definitely knows that the Q&A style board exists, and they can go there directly next time.

Post #: 10

5/22/2010 20:41:21

Rhia Shirubia
Member

Interesting, yet still difficult for players to know, which i still find concerning as public feedback is important for a business.
Clearly your not going to understand this idea, so I'll end with the following list of suggestions rather then making another thread which would lead to further complications,

- Govern Moderators more closely to ensure they are actually productively helping the community
- Stop locking threads in the Q&A, not understood to mods players need a place to discuss a question as well not all answers are answered as well as people may wish, leaving the Q&A a place for players to give help more freely is definitely required Mods should only really move in if they have constructive feedback or a post is inappropriate.
- Potentially work on a layout more friendly to users
- Realize your not working with only children or adults therefore keeping such a firm grasp on the community is truly not required
- Fix all this red tape everywhere as you said all these forum specific rules... there complicated and not required.
- Set up a feedback thread for all players to suggest their views on how things are run, simply telling me players can post here won't allow the community to understand that, the concept is hidden
- Mods need to be less Lock eager, which btw gnome i appreciate your understanding as i don't commonly see people like you roaming around doing the job right.

< Message edited by Rhia Shirubia -- 5/22/2010 20:42:56 >

AQW

Post #: 11

5/22/2010 21:35:25

The Forgotten
Exquisitely pathological

Actually, forum staff (and their assistants) are monitored quite closely. Personally, I've had dealings with most of the forum admins.

When it comes to the AQW Q&A (I'll assume it's this one, because it seems to match your description the best), threads are locked if the question has been answered. If a question warrants further discussion, it should take place in the GD, not the Q&A. The accuracy of answers is the most important need of the Q&A. If we had discussions going on in the Q&A, it would make the forum difficult to navigate through and to find answers.

From what I've seen from the AQW boards (And this is all purely my opinion), the tight moderation is necessary. As an AQ Q&A AK, I typically don't lock threads if the question has only been answered. If none of the posts in a thread have broken a rule, I leave it alone. However, the AQ boards see significantly less posts made on them than the AQW boards. If topics in the AQW Q&A were left open, I would imagine that would lead to a lot more hijacking/spam/mini-modding. That, as I've stated in the previous paragraph, would make the board much more difficult to use.

I really don't see how "Forum Suggestions" is a hidden board. It's advertised as a place to voice concerns and feedback about the forums. From the homepage:

quote:

Post all your forum-related feedback and suggestions here.

I think that covers about all I had to say.

AQW

Post #: 12

5/22/2010 21:57:40

Rhia Shirubia
Member

The knowledge that the board may be used for general feedback towards the people who control the boards is more or less hidden, not worth arguing, it's all the more reasons to justify my long absence on these boards and lack of faith towards specific regions,

Although i will ask, if it needs to be further discussed and deserves light in GD, why do mods lock and not move? it seems like a pointless motion,
i seriously can't understand how these boards possibly function,
but meh as stated as above, i surrender, giving up on any potential fixes,
everyone seems to have a one track mind since it's been like this so long, which is also why people don't tend to use the forums =/

Anyways thanks for the reply from the view point of an AK, at least i know you watch the suggestion section.

AQW

Post #: 13

5/22/2010 23:56:26

moneybags
More than a Game

A few points to add:

quote:

Govern Moderators more closely to ensure they are actually productively helping the community

If you do find a problem with an ArchKnight(s), you can PM the head moderator of the board they patrol. That would usually be listed in a sticky (on top of the page) of the specific board the AK has power in. If you have a problem with a Moderator, then you can PM the head Admin Circe.

quote:

Although i will ask, if it needs to be further discussed and deserves light in GD, why do mods lock and not move? it seems like a pointless motion,

If a question requires discussion, there usually is a thread set up in the GD for that, tagged or not. For example, during release days, many questions in the AQWQ&A are based on the release; for that, you can discuss your problem or in the tagged thread. The question itself should be in the Q&A. The reason AKs don't move it there is obvious-- repetitive topics aren't reequired and just unneccesarily fill up the forum.

As to the questions that a forum member wants to discuss, they can make their own topic in the appropriate GD board. The Q&A should only be for Q&A's, and GD for discussion-- I personally think it's much cleaner and neater if both aren't merged together.

Epic	Post #: 14

5/23/2010 6:55:17

Sir Gnome
Member

Right, I'll try and answer as many of these issues as I can.

quote:

- Govern Moderators more closely to ensure they are actually productively helping the community
- Stop locking threads in the Q&A, not understood to mods players need a place to discuss a question as well not all answers are answered as well as people may wish, leaving the Q&A a place for players to give help more freely is definitely required Mods should only really move in if they have constructive feedback or a post is inappropriate.
- Potentially work on a layout more friendly to users
- Realize your not working with only children or adults therefore keeping such a firm grasp on the community is truly not required
- Fix all this red tape everywhere as you said all these forum specific rules... there complicated and not required.
- Set up a feedback thread for all players to suggest their views on how things are run, simply telling me players can post here won't allow the community to understand that, the concept is hidden
- Mods need to be less Lock eager, which btw gnome i appreciate your understanding as i don't commonly see people like you roaming around doing the job right.

We have review processes for all members of the Forum Staff. ArchKnights are accountable to the Head Moderators of the boards they moderate in, and to the Head of the ArchKnights (currently Elanith). Moderators and Administrators are accountable to the Head Administrator of the Forums (currently Circe), who in turn reports to the Head AE Staff.

Generally, in a Q&A board, we take the attitude that if a thread has been answered correctly, or that the thread poster has replied signifying that they are satisfied with the answers given so far, then the thread is locked so other people don't just post in the same few threads continuously with the same material, bumping those and pushing other questions off the first page of the board, where they might not get seen and so not be answered. More importantly though, (as a general rule) a Q&A board is only for questions with definite answers. While (taking an AQW Example) "Which of the new Guardian, Dragonlord and Starlord classes is the most powerful?" is a question, its certainly a question open for discussion, so belongs in AQW GD rather than in AQW Q&A.

As to the layout.... Well. I'm not entirely sure what's confusing about the current system. Certainly, I've been around for a while, so I'm used to it, however from the forums homepage you can get to virtually any board in two clicks, and to the majority in one click. If you look at a view like this one, then the function of each subboard is made fairly clear. If you could be more specific about what is "unfriendly" at the moment, then I could be of more help.

I'm not sure what you mean by "keeping such a firm grasp on the community". We do moderate the "Community" board that is the OOC Room fairly closely, yes, but this is because some of the topics there have the potential to be fairly volatile.

Forum Specific Rules not being needed - Here, I'm really going to have to disagree strongly. With so many different boards serving such different functions (comparing, say, AdventureQuest Battle Strategy with the Clans & Clubs board is like comparing chalk and cheese!) then if they didn't all have rules to govern the specific of their board, then the main set of forum rules would have to be VERY long indeed, which would put people off reading them. The Board Specific rules are also a good place to list the Head Moderator, associated Moderators, and ArchKnights with responsibility for the board in question, so people can easily find out who to contact if they require assistance.

I believed that having the board description for Forum Support being "Post all your forum-related feedback and suggestions here. " sufficed to let people know that they could give all their feedback here - if there's something on that sort of level that you feel would improve things, please do let me know and I'll consider it. I'm against having just one thread for several issues though, because as you can see just from this post answering your concerns, this can generate a "Wall of text" feeling in the Staff replies. Spreading things out over individual threads lets each individual issue get attention separately, rather than run the risk of things running together in one thread.

As to your final point, the rate of locks and/or deleting will vary by board. I can't really comment on them as a whole, as each will have slightly different policies for different reasons (and I probably couldn't comment on many boards, and would have to go ask their Head Mod myself).

quote:

but meh as stated as above, i surrender, giving up on any potential fixes,
everyone seems to have a one track mind since it's been like this so long, which is also why people don't tend to use the forums =/

Just to finish by addressing this; we may seem slightly resistant to change, but that is only because we've spent a lot of time trying to determine how best to do things, and we hope that we are as close to that at the moment as is feasable. That doesn't mean we'll ignore good ideas though, either on a global or by board basis. When presented with such a situation, we aim to explain why things are as they are (as I did with the idea of moving vs lock/delete above), to then give the person giving the suggestion reasons why they feel what they're suggesting is better than the current system. If they do so with good reasons, then we likely will make a change (unless there are circumstances beyond our control, such as requiring a large recode of the forums, etc).

I hope that answers as many of your concerns as possible!

Post #: 15

5/23/2010 8:46:33

darlinvs12
Member

very good

Post #: 16

5/23/2010 11:39:40

Circe
Stand Back

Hi all!

Rhia Shirubia, I'd like to thank you for not only taking the time to make this suggestion but for having the patience to stick with it and explain what you mean calmly and respectfully. That's a rarity and I wanted you to know that we appreciate it.

I'd now like to weigh in generally on a few of the overall points discussed in this thread. First, we value feedback so much that we have an entire forum dedicated to it. Forum Suggestions exists solely for forum members to offer their input as to how the forums could be improved. Do we always accept that feedback? No, but we never dismiss it out of hand, as evidenced by the time Gnome and a few of the AKs have spent responding to this thread. The AE forum is for you, the player, and your input will always be valuable.

That being said, one of the things we cannot do is implement duplicate services. The forum staff is limited - and stretched very thin as it is - and so we only have the manpower for the services we already have implemented. Sometimes we expand beyond our capabilities, and my team is absolutely amazing in their ability to adapt to those necessary changes and keep the forums running smoothly. We couldn't exist without their dedication - much as we wouldn't exist without your interest and patronage. While I agree that there are things about the forums that are less than ideal, we are constantly striving to improve and do better.

An example you offered is people locking threads without providing a redirecting link. That's probably human error - that the AKs or Mods are so busy and moving so fast that they simply forget to provide one. We all endeavor to do our best, but sometimes mistakes happen. The thing to do in that instance is to politely PM the person locking the thread and offer a link for them to provide to the thread starter. Any assistance from the community is always welcome and always appreciated. We depend on you guys a lot more than you realize - without patience and helpful members, our jobs would be impossible!

I hope these explanations help you understand our general reactions to your suggestion. We do care very much about user feedback, but we already provide for it in the best way we possibly can.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 17

5/23/2010 13:25:41

Rhia Shirubia
Member

@Circe, best and straight forward reply i can gather from this entire thing, thank you very much as it's much more clear and understanding towards the points proven,
One thing i will suggest towards it as a whole, is the fact that you guys are run so thin, is there a possible way to suggest ones services as a whole to help in such an issue? Most places take in applications which are then reviewed and tested on a trial basis before fully accepting ones application,

From most things I've seen AE seems to reject the idea of allowing players to assist mods, or allow them the chance to apply, although for the most part i can imagine this being form players who bluntly state "can i be a mod" or want it without understanding the general work load. I'd have to say i strongly appreciate the work you guys do work on throughout the forums, and human error is more then possible, however also very repetitive by certain individuals, of course that's head moderator work as clearly stated multiple times, I'm glad to see someone state that it clearly isn't ideal, as the layout is decent however the forums are still difficult to work with, especially with all the red tape around, i have to constantly ask mods to deal with my posts if in an inappropriate place as it's still difficult to figure out where a post should be. I'm not saying rules should be lifted altogether which i think is how gnomes taking it, clearly somethings should be listed such as post layout in specific forums.

One suggestion for AQW's forum is a forum suggesting future content as a whole not armors/weps ect, events to be more clear, I've had dozens of ideas before but still every time i look there is no place to properly post them. (keep in mind not all my feedback from one specific forum as i play all 4 games) however my post count is pretty limited due to the fact of never knowing where a post should be specifically placed, just earlier i had a question in Q&A which i was told to move to GD for better discussion, following such i had a PM telling me it was deleted and should be placed in the Q&A ._.

Anyways, I'd say as much as i can gather from all of this, you guys should be searching for legit individuals who can further increase your help and support groups of moderators, since as you said it's running thin, only issue i guess would be arch knights being required to watch more mods, of course every general idea does always come with downsides.

AQW

Post #: 18

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