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8/6/2011 10:49:11   
PumKing
Member

Look, I know that many of you out there are getting sick about hearing how Oped TLMs are (half for hearing it so long and tired that nothing is being done, and the other half being TLMs who want nothing done to them). However, it has come to my attention that there is indeed a problem with the TLMs in the form of an absurdly high def and res build I call "The Wall". I this build, which I have seen few of atm, but will undoubtedly grow into a large sect of the TLMs, as a little more than half will not do as they preferr high str builds. "The Wall" is where a TLM will have that enhances def, then, as all mercs do (thanks to hybrid), they then put the remaining enhancment points into tech, so as to obviously have a high res, the problem is, that this then leads to a TLM with around 40 def and 33-35 res. So then the problem dosent become, then use malf or energy attcks, that does not work, because of technician, which then raises the res to 38-40, not to forget that it can debuff itself with assault bot. And there is no detrement for using technician with reroute, and taking less than double digit damage perturn.

The point is, is that I, a str BH, am hardpressed to make 9 damage per turn. So it stand to reason, if the class which has long been known for their terrifying str builds, why is it then that TLMs are not considered Oped by even a fanatics standards. I want to make a point right here stating, I am not writing this post for bounty hunters, I am writing it for every other class BESIDES bounty hunter and tacticle mercenary"

This post is being written for the fairness of the other classes, because if a str BH is hard pressed to do double digits worth of damage, then how is any other class supposed to be expected to do much better. I am not saying that the other classes ae weak either, at least not in there own right, I am only comaring them to combat with a TLM.

@Goldslayer, please do not simply reply with a post of desension, please try to explain how any other class is supposed to take on a TLM with def and res bordering on 40s, with reroute to heal and reapply technician in the build I have posted about

^strange isn't it, it's almost like I know what kind of emotionally charged, and logic forgetting post he writes, oh and btw goldslayer1, you never did get back to me on those blood mage builds you said you would make, that can supposedly take on a full var and fully competant TLM , to prove that they aren't Oped



MY BUILD--to prove that I am not a newb, or a noob

HP: 125
MP: 57
STR: 50(+35)
DEX: 47(+37)
TECH: 35(+31)
SUP: 30(+9)

SKILL TREE

1-4-5
1-M-4
0-1-3
4-2-0

EQUIPTMENT
Delta Daggers
Frostbolt Blaster
Telsa Armor E
Eggzooka
Assault Bot

< Message edited by PumKing -- 8/6/2011 17:47:18 >
Epic  Post #: 1
8/6/2011 10:53:59   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 Im one of those TLMS!!!!!!!!! Yay! Thanks though, now everyone is gonna do this lol. I discovered it myself aas soon as i got the tesla armor.

< Message edited by Chosen 0ne -- 8/6/2011 10:54:13 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 2
8/6/2011 10:57:06   
PumKing
Member

The first person I saw with it actually had telsa armor P, but thanks, If more TLMs learn about this sooner, and start to do this, there blatantly OPed build will come about quicker and that means they will have to be nerfed quicker as well
Epic  Post #: 3
8/6/2011 11:00:23   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 Well, i will tell you that i barely lose. I use this with focus. I get +49 dex, and +31 tech. I dont even fully enchance all my weps. I can tell you though, if the comunity gets ahold of this, tlm will be more oped than you will ever believe.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
8/6/2011 11:00:54   
zelemania
Member
 

 I don't see how ur build proves that you are not a newb.
Post #: 5
8/6/2011 11:02:01   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 ^ it is a common strengh build for bh's. It works, youll get high percent and fast kill.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
8/6/2011 11:02:43   
PumKing
Member

@zelemania--my name in forum, is that same in-game, my 1v1 record speaks rather well for itself, you can chack character pages to see, hope that isn't too hard for you

< Message edited by PumKing -- 8/6/2011 11:03:19 >
Epic  Post #: 7
8/6/2011 11:11:57   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 if i use technician first i can subtract 47 dexc from you, then i am basicly as powerful as a strength build.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 8
8/6/2011 11:17:31   
SouL Prisoner
Member

y do u ppl complain soo much about TM's.

if u think they r OPPING "THEN JOIN THEM " (in sort be 1)

prob solved

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
8/6/2011 11:38:03   
The Galin Killer
Member

That's the entire problem. In a game where the community likes originality, no one wants to be forced to join the OP class. Especially if they have to farm 50k credits or buy Varium.
Post #: 10
8/6/2011 11:38:41   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 ^ Then there will be no mages or no bh's, you would see the same 2 or 3 builds, everyone would get bored and quit. There cant be only 1 class.

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
8/6/2011 11:43:12   
aqwshadowking14
Member

Lol Pumking, I like how you have my skill tree, but I kinda messed up on that build. SA is at 5 which should only be at 4. Level 5 has a 32 support requirement.

Change around the stats so that you could have 59 mp.

Skill tree:
1 4 6
X M 3
X 1 4
4 2 X

Saw a few miscalculations. From your weps.
125
59
50+37
46+40
35+27
30+8

< Message edited by aqwshadowking14 -- 8/6/2011 12:06:09 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
8/6/2011 12:04:58   
zelemania
Member
 

 Neither of the stats hit the right breakpoints from the Stat Progression chart and as it was stated SA 5 requires 32 Support and you have only 30.

I have yet to test TLM but with the future balance changes they won't be as OP as they are now.

< Message edited by zelemania -- 8/6/2011 12:05:43 >
Post #: 13
8/6/2011 12:05:57   
MrBones
Member

Could a Pony jump that wall Pumking ?
Epic  Post #: 14
8/6/2011 17:50:36   
PumKing
Member

@zelemania, good catch, will fix that in build

@mr. bones, ummm, I suppose so, but it would have to be trained rather well, I think a pony could leap that high

@aqwshadowking14, not bad, will have to try that out


< Message edited by PumKing -- 8/6/2011 17:52:39 >
Epic  Post #: 15
8/6/2011 17:52:50   
aqwshadowking14
Member

@Pumking That 1 less support fixes the rest of the stats giving more strength and dexterity.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
8/6/2011 18:05:53   
nico0las
Member

@pumpking Like I told you on the 2v2 discussion, the problem isn't the class, it's hybrid armor. BH and Tech mage destroys any merc in the earlier levels, until they realize that hybrid armor is amazing. hence, i propose this:
1:REMOVE SHADOW ARTS AND ASSIMILATION, and put in Hybrid armor
2: delete hybrid armor enteirly
Make the other classes hut MUUUCCCHHHH harder.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
8/6/2011 18:07:28   
PumKing
Member

^yeah, thx man, I sometimes don't calculate right ( even with claculator's help XP )

---off topic----

usually goldslayer1 has said something rather caustic or degrading by now, maybe he's off the forums today, hate to think I scared him off with my comments about him not keeping his promise (because he normally ignores peoples request to simply not troll and try to give constructive critisism intead)
Epic  Post #: 18
8/6/2011 18:10:14   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 The Wall is a very powerful build and one that has been made many times over, mostly by Mercs. In time it is always overcome but with Enhancments at their perk in power and a decent not seen anytime soon and gear that is every increasing is stat modifers i see a long future for it
personally i cannot think of a solution but a nerf would only punish those down the road so i will say not to go with that
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
8/6/2011 19:22:02   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

So what is the point of this thread? To discuss solutions on making TLMs "balanced"?
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
8/6/2011 19:28:01   
Soda Pop
Member

Fast rage...but still OP cuz of Surgical Strike
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
8/6/2011 20:18:23   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

@Goldslayer, please do not simply reply with a post of desension, please try to explain how any other class is supposed to take on a TLM with def and res bordering on 40s, with reroute to heal and reapply technician in the build I have posted about

ahh yeahs i made a few builds with physical armors myself in the past for major 2 vs 2 tanks builds. mine specifically had 43 def and 37 res ranges. pretty good too. however they heavily lacked offense without a robot. now i will not say the class is OP over something thats uni-class usable robots are OP with every class. and if u tried heavy tank builds for BH and 5 focus the robots damage allows them to regain health with bloodlust, while having a huge smokescreen to increase their block.
u see, mercs can only pose such problems because of its tanking. however BH posses a str because of blocking, semi heal looping and semi tanking. the staff had said themselves that robots are OP regardless of what class they are used with. now if u encountered "the wall" this wall most likely used a 5 focus build to have decent damage out put. now i can assure u that the wall build will not be so strong if it weren't for the robots because of its lack of damage out put. and even reroute and constant heal wouldn't help much.


quote:

^strange isn't it, it's almost like I know what kind of emotionally charged, and logic forgetting post he writes, oh and btw goldslayer1, you never did get back to me on those blood mage builds you said you would make, that can supposedly take on a full var and fully competant TLM , to prove that they aren't Oped

lol yeah i did on several threads i explained some builds for BM at that time when i was a BM.
i had 82 dex with 135 str builds, max bloodlust, maxx fireball, lvl 1 berserker. and as much as possible on deadly aim.
it got about 80%-85% without NPCs the build was capable of a 3 turn win with a devastating fireball damage, gun damage, and berserker.
now lets keep in mind that back when i was a BM the bug that didn't allow gun to be used after fireball was in place. so i could have gotten a higher %. the build had 2 heavy damaging attacks that weren't blockable. (gun and fireball) i also made a couple of focus builds at the time with a physical armor and tech spam with plasma cannon. it also pretty game changing at the time with the combination of robots plasma cannon and rage berserker + bloodlust.
now lets keep in mind that bloodmage is a class thats mostly based on str attacks. and str builds wont get high % unless ur BH. (TLM averages 85%-90%, while str BH is 90%-95% while sometimes higher)


quote:

usually goldslayer1 has said something rather caustic or degrading by now, maybe he's off the forums today, hate to think I scared him off with my comments about him not keeping his promise (because he normally ignores peoples request to simply not troll and try to give constructive critisism intead)

well seems someones got rage. and yes i been off in the forums for a while and haven't had time to read everything the last few days. plus this thread was made by u, no point in giving criticism to someone whos biased and wont understand :/
and actually if anything is caustic it has to be ur non stop blabbering about TLMs.

now u said ur a str BH. how about i make u a build that shouldn't give u so much more problems with "the wall"
quote:

MY BUILD--to prove that I am not a newb, or a noob

HP: 125
MP: 57
STR: 50(+35)
DEX: 47(+37)
TECH: 35(+31)
SUP: 30(+9)

SKILL TREE

1-4-5
1-M-4
0-1-3
4-2-0

EQUIPTMENT
Delta Daggers
Frostbolt Blaster
Telsa Armor E
Eggzooka
Assault Bot

ok ur a newb. first off u have 85 str, ur 2 points away from the next str lvl. that means u have 2 waste stats point in str.
u also have 84 dex . ur 2 away from next defense lvl, or u have 2 waste points into dex. u laos have 66 tech, that means u have 1 waste point into tech. u also have 1 waste point into support. lets add all of that up. and u have 6 wasted points.
ur skill tree is also bad. lvl 1 mass is good enough, u dont need lvl 4 cheapshot or EMP. and if u want to have a good build u need a better strategy with ur attacks and combinations with the energy.

honestly its like u just copied and pasted the build from a newb and made a thread raging TLMs.
now how am i suppose to take u seriously when u cant make a build for str BH?

here i took the liberty of making a build for u that should help u counter tanks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Health: 125
Energy: 63
Strength: 47 +40
Dexterity: 44 +42
Technology: 43 +22
Support: 25 +8
Primary: 20-24 +34 - 1 (physical)
Secondary: 20-24 +32 (energy)
Defense: 26-32 -1
Resistance: 23-28 +9 - 1

1|1|7
0|M|1
0|1|2
1|1|M

Items:
Delta Claws (enhancements on dex)
Frostbolt blaster (6 enhancements on str, and 1 on dex)
Tesla armor E (enhancements on str)
Eggzooka (enhancements on str)

strategy if ur fighting "walls" use poison, smoke after that, then keep it with strikes. when rage comes if ur smoke is still there then strike it, if ur smoke is gone then use gun. now if u were any smart u would know not to use massacre on high defense as it will have little effect.
this build will allow u to counter tanks while dealing good damage. u can also go with the regular strategy of smoke, double strike massacre on regular players.

also remember how to play against mages, dont smoke them because they will use defense matrix, just keep it on strikes and mass. if he uses defense matrix then gun the mage on the first turn of defense matrix and smoke him after then massacre when defense matrix is down and rage the next turn if u have rage.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
now my "friend" ill leave that build to u as a gift to u.

now i hope u stop ur crying about TLMs. altho i remember someone said that crying is a way of releasing anger and rage and it helps to not keep it build up. so im not gonna stop u from crying about it

also lets keep in mind that 5 focus is getting its much needed nerf next friday (if there are no other delays) and currently % skills should be stronger against tank types when release comes, so for now we will have to see.

so the so called wall build wont be that good with the damage output while only good at defense. and % skills should help do more damage against high def/res


EDIT:
did i mention ur build is newb?
seems very copied without any well thought into it.

now the build i gave u took me about 15-20 minutes to make. hope u enjoy it.


< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/6/2011 20:51:29 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
8/6/2011 20:39:38   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 ^OMG GOLDSLAYER!

HOW, HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO HAVE THE PATIENCE TO READ THAT!!!!!!


Please! shorter posts lol
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 23
8/6/2011 20:42:34   
goldslayer1
Member

@chosen
im sorry chosen but when i want to pwn someone in an argument patience of reading is usually not something i care about.
its most me saying his build is crap and newb. and how the wall build i only soo good because of robots.
which the devs tehmselves said was OP and not suppose to be the primary attack. without robots this wall build would be nothing. and thats what pum needs to realize.
and the argument of the BM build i had was explained long ago during the second day of delta.
if he wasn't there to read it, not my problem.

its also me giving him a well thought out build because he cant obviously think of one.
(again thats why i said his build is newb)

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/6/2011 20:43:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
8/6/2011 20:44:05   
aqwshadowking14
Member

You don't need poison to kill tanks, I'm a str BH and I'm doing against tanks. It's just that players have to know how to adapt to different situations. There are those that massacre although those mercs still have 70 hp with 37+ defense...
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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