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11/2/2011 18:46:19   
Drianx
Member

I have created a similar topic in the past, but I got heavily countered by narrow-minded people, so I come again with facts:

Using the wiki exp chart, I have made some calculations to find out how many credits can an average player earn from lv1 all the way up to lv25. Average player = a player whose win ratio is 1:1, so he would earn about 20 credits each fight. To make things simpler, I assumed the player only fights 1v1, and no NPCs.

This is the result - please note that in the column "Total Credits" there is the amount of credits earned without spending on anything:

1st column is Level
2nd is Total fights for current level
3rd is Total credits

2 4 80
3 11 220
4 21 420
5 34 680
6 50 1000
7 69 1380
8 91 1820
9 116 2320
10 144 2880
11 175 3500
12 209 4180
13 246 4920
14 286 5720
15 329 6580
16 375 7500
17 424 8480
18 476 9520
19 531 10620
20 589 11780
21 657 13140
22 735 14700
23 823 16460
24 921 18420
25 1029 20580

Please note at lv25 you can do a maximum of 20k credits with a 1:1 win ratio, without buying anything up to lv25 - this is impossible, but anyway.
Now let's see how much a full lv25 equipment costs (armor+primary+gun+zooka): 15000+4250+4000+5500=28750 credits. It is way too much for an average player.

Also, a skillful player who has a 2:1 win ratio would earn about 30k credits - barely enough to cover lv25 equipment cost only, but actually you have to spend constantly on equipment as you advance through levels, so full lv25 gear is still too expensive.

I think
- That's why non variums never afford equipment - how are they supposed to make builds then?
- That's why enhancements basically do not exist for most players. I laughed so hard when I first discovered that enhancements slots were added to items lower than cap level.
- This is the most important aspect that turns non variums into dead meat. Not level gaps or anything else.
- That's why most newbies ragequit EpicDuel before even learning the game basics like builds, strategies and so on.

I'd say credit earning should be x10. It is a free currency, and in the long run it will definitely help the game by attracting players.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 11/2/2011 18:51:25 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
11/2/2011 18:49:32   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Dude dont forget that if you mess with the credit system you then have to go back and toy with the Gear and all that fun stuff sadly it is a package deal you make credits easier some weapons may increase in price(Rares) and some other things may have to change too(Retrain might have to edit its formula but not sure)
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 2
11/2/2011 18:54:46   
hardcore59
Member

i agree i'm 31 and still have a gun from last year and i am constantly bankrupt i guess since level 3 when i started buying items
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 3
11/2/2011 18:56:45   
Drianx
Member

@OWA
Says who? It is supposed to be a credit reward modification. Credit prices and rewards do not affect stats, damage or any engine calculations. They are just... prices.

EDIT: I find it funny to see a non varium oppose this, since I think it would be an extremely important benefit for them.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 11/2/2011 19:02:38 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
11/2/2011 19:07:16   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Drianx They wouldn't adjust the arcade drop rate because it would "Flood the Epicduel economy with credits"~Titan EDF

So thing would have to change if you are going to alter the credit reward system
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
11/2/2011 19:12:56   
Joe10112
Member

I find that when I was level 27, I had like 3k credits and horrible Equipment. (Reaper Blades, Security Blaster 2, Railzooka) Only at level 29 I was able to get an Armor (Predator Armor E), then was bankrupt. I then had to farm again to get Touch of Agony, Headhunter SMG, and Graphite Gun. I'm level 31 now, and I have 14k credits in my bank, and no enhances. I feel that the credits should be increased, maybe even double the current credits per win...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
11/2/2011 19:13:42   
PivotalDisorder
Member

what about just raising the current credit reward by 1 stage.
Post #: 7
11/2/2011 19:26:35   
He Who Lurks
Member

Original Thread
From Ashari:
quote:

Looking at the numbers, players are actually on a very tight credit budget as they level up.

Here's an example of the total credits earned by a player as they are leveling up with a 60% win rate. Even at 70% win rate, these credit numbers only go up by 5%.

Listed below is the total experience required to get to a level, the total number of 1v1 or 2v2 matches it would take, and the total amount of credits earned.

Matches Credits Earned
Level XP Req 1v1 2v2 1v1 2v2
25 10290 1029 515 22638 20168
26 12620 1262 631 27764 24735
27 16200 1620 810 35640 31752
28 21030 2103 1052 46266 41219
29 27110 2711 1356 59642 53136
30 34440 3444 1722 75768 67502
31 48020 4802 2401 105644 94119
32 61600 6160 3080 135520 120736
33 75180 7518 3759 165396 147353


Going on the model that a player would buy a new Primary, Gun and Auxiliary every 5 levels a player will on average spend 30,109 credits by level 25 and 81,609 credits by level 30 solely on equipment. This is without buying armor at level 15 which many new players do make the mistake of doing, leaving them even further behind on credits.

This is given the best case scenario, where the player buys all the right weapons for their level and still this leaves a player grossly overbudget. A normal player will probably buy the wrong weapon or buy weapons more often than every 5 levels, not to mention the cost of retraining which is probably done at least 5 times by the time a player reaches level 30.

Now Missions and Power Hour are a nice boost, but neither are enough to cover the gap yet. Doing all the pre level 30 missions will only get you 4070 credits (including sellback of weapons you are rewarded). Not everyone can play during power hour, so when taken into consideration, that should be considered a boost to give players some breathing room in terms of credits, not to cover the gap.

I think Missions are going to be the greatest boost we'll see in terms of credits at lower levels. Right now there still aren't that many, but as we'll get more it'll be a big help in covering the gap.



EpicDuel takes too long to get things going. They[The Staff] simply can't backtrack to other problems without fixing ones that are present and are being worked on. If they divide up the task, it'll simply take much too long actually get anything completed.
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
11/2/2011 19:34:48   
Drianx
Member

@HWL
Wow, I didn't know a 3rd thread actually existed.

Apart from agreeing with Ashari, having a staff admitting that buying an armor available to purchase in game - and the only one available for that level - is a mistake, it is a bad thing. This means that armor is actually a trap, made on purpose to destroy players unaware of it, or what?
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
11/2/2011 19:37:30   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Drianx Armor is really needed because enemies with all lv 31-32 gear and no armor are much easier to beat then those with weaker gear and armor not sure why but Armor helps even if it puts a huge dent into your funds
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/2/2011 19:40:17   
Basicball
Member

if we take it that you only do 1V1, and you never lose from someone who's a higher level then you, you have and yu have he horrile win/lose record of 50-50
level 1: 250 cred
level 2: 3wins,2losses= 360 Cred
l3: 6w, 6l= 708c
l4: 11w, 12l = 1144c
5: 18,18=1846

you see, i could go on, but it's already quite clear that your calculations are quite off.

besides, ED's cred system is good, i's supposed to be a challenge, i comparisment to other AE games which are a walk in the park

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
11/2/2011 21:07:04   
Laces
Member

There should be more credits then 32 from a battle. Many people try to do the best they can and they may not have the time to spam 30 wins a day like I do. In the past, I was forced to sell weapons to keep up to date. Now, I'm more conservative with my credits because I have everything I need through getting money from the 10k package. However, in order for a non-varium to compete, they have to spend 12000 credits or more + enhancements at high levels making them free kills. Thats utterly ridiculous. Double the credits from one battle. Not the EXP, just the credits per battle. This needs to happen.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
11/2/2011 21:26:54   
AQWPlayer
Member

It would be even better if credit reward doubled or tripled for nonvariums and stayed the same for variums. Buying an epic varium package automatically gives you the best primaries in game+15k credits. What else could you possibly ask for? So variums don't need the extra credit reward. (that is, until the gap is closed to the point where it is supposed to be, AKA 2 levels gap)
AQW  Post #: 13
11/2/2011 21:30:55   
helloguy
Member

Take into account missions and power hour fighting and beating some one higher Level
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
11/2/2011 22:51:20   
Sparticus
Member

Wow, the math is correct but so wrong I don't know where to start.

You can earn a ton of credits fighting higher level NPCs and players. You can double your credits during one of the two available power hours, you can do missions and earn credits. You can win sick credits by combining a power hour with fighting a higher level NPC. Think 1000's of credits a day using some creative means and a bit of effort.

Other then an armor, most equipment is inexpensive and you can sell it back to earn up to the next weapon. The weapons now all have a usefulness range, you can use them well below what the previous level used to be for a slight damage loss. That piece of equipment can last you multiple levels.

Just as an aside, it took me 3 days to get to level 25. I did it way, way back in the day when there were few things available to begin with. There was no power hour and no missions. I didn't purchase my Founders set till I was already level 25. I already had great gear and only really needed an armor.

Suggestion now is make another drop armor for lower level players and let an NPC of about level 20 drop it. That should make players happy within the first few days they start to play. Is that soon enough for all of you?

< Message edited by Sparticus -- 11/2/2011 22:52:31 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
11/3/2011 2:40:49   
Joe10112
Member

I think that the NPC limit should be scrapped or raised to maybe 10. (10 challenges per hour on one NPC)

Therefore, at least 30 NPC battles that you can win, during Power Hour, will get you 32*30*2=1920 credits in about 20 minutes (if you NPC fast). I find that gaining credits is not hard, but just time consuming. Clicking the same buttons to defeat different enemies gets monotonous. I find levels 26-29 to be the hardest levels, as that's when you start facing hardcore players, and more high level gear starts to be in your range. I actually quit ED when I was level 27 (?) beacuse it was just too hard without a good build, the right weapons, and no varium. I took a 1 year leave from ED, and am now back, I made it past that HUGE roadbump just by NPCing (and promising myself that my ED record cannot be as bad as 1000:1500 (in 1v1 battles). I am now at 2048:2046).

I can't tell you how many times I retrained from levels 1-31. Maybe 31 times, AT LEAST once per level. That's (at least) 31*500 = 15,500 credits I wasted, due to not having a good build and horrible weapons I tried to make good.

Overall, I think the credit thing needs to be buffed. 32 credits per win against lower or equal leveled person? 15,500/32 = 485 battles I fought and won to retrain. It should be buffed to 64 credits per win against lower person, 80 credits win against equal person, then double everything else. (Basically, Power Hour is the "new standard").

And a ED tutorial or Guidebook wouldn't hurt...(Put in ideas for builds, good weapons to get, etc..., must be consistantly updated though)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
11/3/2011 2:43:34   
Algorithm
Member

Well as our level increases so does the need for credits.
Post #: 17
11/3/2011 4:06:28   
BlueKatz
Member

I totally agree. I play with many Alt acc and the Credit thing is very annoying
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
11/3/2011 4:17:50   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

I don't see what's the big problem (or if there is one), that results from inflating credit prices. You gotta remember, when you start the game as a beginner, you tend to make very premature decisions: My personal experience -

Example:

1.) I brought two bikes worth 15k (style looks awesome and sleek vs. long term benefits = absolutely worthless amount of flashy pixel rendering)

2.) Changed my build multiple times (due to balance issues, nerfs on skills, and constant debuffs) which resulted in a lot time and effort of retraining and revamping my skills+stats = lotsa mula down the drain.

3.) Desired to acquire stronger weaponry: sold my old weapons just to get the seasonal promos (I was real poor at the time) which yielded better stats.
SHORTCOMING: Did not foresee that new and future releases would out rival my old weapons forcing me to either complement on the following options:

a) Either enhance what I have to compete against updated weaponry (which is really expensive) OR
b) sell my old weapons in hopes that the new weaponry will stronger or equal to future releases (which we know is RARELY the case). . .Such as my seraph armour which I happily gave sold after getting Biohazard husk armour. (I spent 5 enhancement slots = 30k on seraph and - waste of time an effort).

4.) Enhancements are ridiculously expensive: 10k for just one slot? You gotta be kidding me. And once you've enhanced one weapon, you're basically committed to enhance it entirely. If you sell it, you're gonna be losing money. If you're gonna enhance it more, it's just gonna be more and more expensive. And as we know, weapons are going to be outdated over time; so you're gonna be either purchasing new weapons or enhancing your old ones = expensive.

I suggest raising the credit rewards to at least 100 credits for 1v1 and 200 credits for 2v2. This will facilitate users greatly and also help with issues regarding imbalance involving the nonvarium vs. varium debate. Less people arguing = more happier = stronger community. That way, people can ACTUALLY AFFORD enhancements, likewise myself.

With an inflation to credit rewards, ED could implement some uber item or set (cost 100k or something), for players to work towards.

Argument: Power hour- well, not many people are available during those times and many of us don't like to NPC. I NPC but I just find it extremely boring.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
11/3/2011 5:10:42   
drinde
Member

^
Way too much Credits per Battle. Around 50 for 1v1 and 90 for 2v2 sounds more feasible.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 20
11/3/2011 7:01:27   
Monstrocon
Member

This is a controversial issue that has been addressed many times in the history of the forums.
As a non-varium, I find the credit system fair as long as I am committed to at least 15 PowerHour wins a day. However that means I only have enough for new weapons and no enhancements/bikes. This is taking into account that I sell my old equipment for new equipment. I would suggest increasing the rewards slightly.

1v1 Win = 50 credits
1v1 Loss = 11 credits
2v2 Win = 84 credits
2v2 Loss = 23 credits
Juggernaut win = Debatable, as the fact that a non-varium can play as the Juggernaut means that he is well off. The rewards for Juggernaut are already good, but an increase has to take place if the reward of credits for other battle modes increase.
Juggernaut loss = 28 credits

Other than that, another idea is to scale credit reward with levels.

With the reward system increase, this does not mean item price or the price of functions such as retraining and colour customizing should increase, as that would defeat the purpose.

< Message edited by Monstrocon -- 11/3/2011 7:08:38 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 21
11/3/2011 7:42:17   
Drianx
Member

My suggestion is meant to help lower levels mainly, who frequently make bad decisions (although they don't know that), and have no idea about power hor or NPCs. Many lv32-34 people have got miserable win-loss ratio up to lv30+, and this is caused mostly by the lack of credits. Also, lv30-34 non variums will be able to access enhancements earlier and easier.

Scaling credit earning according to character level doesn't help, low levels would still be in trouble.
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
11/3/2011 13:41:39   
TurkishIncubus
Member

There should be item drop from every battle.And Raiting should increse item drop rate.This will lead to easy credit farm and future trading system.I have some ideas about this but i will not write it and spent time cause nobody(devs) will not read.

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 23
11/3/2011 14:56:32   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@Drianx

Well, 100 credits sounds reasonable. If you think about it, to fully enhance on average slots on nonvar + var equipment, it cost on average 150k (10 slots on gun and aux, perhaps another 5 or 8 on armour). Plus as weapons are outdated over time, many people need the money to enhance other sets of weaponry (so that's an additional 150k). Even as a nonvar commander, I still haven't enhanced my primary and my sidearm (missing 7 enhancements), and I'm down alot of money due to switching back weapons (sold my hypertalon which I enhanced considerbly for the SMG sidearm).

Summary: Inflating the credit rewards = decrease the marginalized GAP between nonvar and var = increased incentive to play. Here's what I propose:

Standard pvping
1v1 = 100credits
2v2 = 200 credits

FOR power hour 50% +:
1v1 = 150 credits
2v2 = 300 credits

It may seem like a lot of credits but think about it in the long run: with more credits, the Dev's could implement features that will gauge on "elitist" rewards such as an uber set/status (purchable) in the game. Plus, we're moving into a more 'credit' friendly environment: therefore credits should be as valued as varium (varium should be granted as an incentive to get better items not as a way to enhance weaponry).

Notice that we've haven't factored in costs for bot, bike, war kills (100k) etc which its still alot of money. The fact is you'll be getting a much greater amount of credits; I don't see why this is a problem.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
11/3/2011 20:29:33   
H4ll0w33n
Member

IF YOU NEED AN EXPLAINATION PLEASE PM ME, DON’T ASK ME IN THIS TOPIC BECAUSE I AM NOT ON OFTEN, I MADE THIS AS SIMPLE AS I CAN SO THERES NOT ALOT OF COMPLICATED MATH FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS WHO ARENT GOOD AT IT LIKE ALL MY CALCULATIONS DIDN'T COUNT CREDITS FROM DEATHS BECAUSE IT WOULD JUST MAKE IT MORE CONFUSING.

NOTE: CREDITS ARE TAKEN FROM FIRST ITEM I CHOOSE (NON-VARIUM), NOT AVERAGE, MAY BE INACCURATE SLIGHTLY. (I don’t have that much time to spend dealing with a small issue)
(Credits of weapon/32 Credits=Wins)
1-100 credits==3 wins
2-175 credits==5 wins
3-270 credits==8 wins
4-360 credits==11 wins
5-450 credits==14 wins
6-540 credits==17 wins
7-750 credits==23 wins
8-720 credits==23 wins
9-729 credits==23 wins
10-900 credits==28 wins
11-990 credits==31 wins
12-972 credits==30 wins
13-1053 credits==33 wins
14-1620 credits==51 wins
15-1350 credits==42 wins
16-1224 credits==38 wins
17-1600 credits==50 wins
18-1981 credits==62 wins
19-1530 credits==48 wins
20-2090 credits==65 wins
21-1785 credits==56 wins
22-2500 credits==78 wins
23-1760 credits==55 wins
24-3600 credits==113 wins
25-4250 credits==133 wins
26-6051 credits==189 wins
27-6931 credits==217 wins
28-7000 credits==219 wins
29-10000 credits==313 wins
30-12000 credits==375 wins
31-12000 credits==375 wins
32-15000 credits==469 wins
33-14000 credits==438 wins
IF TREND CONTINUES
34- 532
35-562
36-656
37-686
38-780
39-810
40-904
Levels that shows rapid increase in wins needed: 13-14|||23-24|||28-29

Analysis:
1-13 the average increase in wins is about 2 per level. [33-3=30/13=2.3]
(High jump in wins needed)
14-23 the average increase in wins is about 4 per level. [78-38=40/10=4]
(High Jump in wins needed)
24-28 the average increase in wins is about 21 per level. [219-113=106/5=21.2]
(High Jump in wins needed)
29-33 the average increase in wins is about 24 per level. [469-375=94/4=23.5]


It’s odd how the slope of the amount of wins required rises so abruptly at levels 13-14|||23-24|||25-26|||28-29|||29-30|||31-32|||. You have a cool down of 13 (level-0-13) then 9 levels before the next rise (Level-14-23) then you have 1, 2, 0, and 1 cool down a period which is why credits suddenly become significantly more important.

At first a rise in 21 wins might not seem like a big deal but over time it adds up, after your level 28 from 24 you would need 106 more wins for one item out of 4 so that’s 424 more wins needed! In case you don’t understand it means at level 24 you only needed (113x4) 452 wins to get all the items you need ^^ but ONLY 4 level later will that have doubled to needing (452+424) 876 wins to getting maxed out O.O. AND if you still don’t understand at level 28 to 29 you will need from 876 wins to getting maxed out to needing (876+376) 1252 wins to get maxed out after ONLY ONE LEVEL. If this trend continues then at level 40 you will be expected to need (904x4) 3616 wins to get your ARMOR, PRIMARY, SIDEARM, and AUXILIARY!!!! Some people are asking “But why don’t they just keep prices at 15000-20000 then as the level rises?” My argument to that is if that be the case, at level 40 we would essentially be paying the same for a level 32-33 item, how’s that fair for us right now, the answer? It isn’t unless you want to get 3616 wins for maxed out equipment.

Now this relates to VARIUM and a bit too stats!! The same thing is happening to varium, the rise suddenly came from: (starting at level 28) 280--->900--->975--->995--->995--->1200[I’m comparing the cost of sidearms]. This is just like credits because credits suddenly came from 219--->313 at level 28 to 29. The jump is less noticeable at levels 1-27 because they remain steady. Now the same thing applies, WHY are we paying for something more expensive than it should be? At level 40 you will see it still be 995-1200 which is exactly what we are paying for right now. If the trend in credits continues then ONE varium item can come out to essentially costing 2000+ at level 40. So my argument about this is shouldn’t the rise of Varium stay the same at a lower cost because it is something we CANNOT get in game. This is the difference, in credits we can get in game ^^ but varium we can’t, that means that the rise of varium pricing shouldn’t increase significantly from level 1-34. At level 1 a item would cost 50 varium but at level 33 it shouldn’t suddenly rise to 995, it should go to 300-500 varium for one item. NOW some people ask “Why doesn’t the price of varium just stay the same then and we let level keep increasing?” My response to that is it’s not fair, like I stated above about credits, a level 40 item costing the same as 33 doesn’t work out, and if prices don’t raise then WE ARE ESSENTIALLY AT THE MAX LEVEL CAP!
Another question that people may have is “In AQW AC prices are the same and level cap is still increasing, why can’t it work with EpicDuel?” My response is AQW allows enhancements do a 1 Gold item can be as strong as a 1000 AC item. In EpicDuel, because the weapons stats are set in stone it means that you won’t be able to use a level 1 item as effectively as a level 33 item.

SOLUTION TO THE CREDIT PROBLEM

I have been thinking about this and at first I thought the solution was simple like everyone else did. To raise credits earned from battles. Now that is a solution but that doesn’t make sense because if credit increased by 10x or 2x then lower leveled players would have a very easy time. More credits earned also allows easier use of In-Game extras like class change and because if level 33 players got more 10x more credits than a level 10 player, it would be unfair for the 33 to be able to have a advantage over something that isn’t essential.
The solution to credits being more important and how to solve it is big; it is CHANGING THE PRICE OF ALL ITEMS. Yes, that is true. If the items were raised at a controlled level then it would still allow easier access to buy the items. Like right now a level 33 item costs 14000 credits and that is 438 wins, if we changed it to costing 8000 credits then it would be 250 wins. It’s not that credits are becoming harder to earn, its weapons are rising at such a significant rate we can’t keep up with it fast enough since almost every update a new, stronger item comes out. Now some may be asking 250 wins is too little, well that is for ONE ITEM you would need 4 for a maxed out equipment which equals to 1000 wins compared to the almost 2000 wins. Of course this will only apply to items that are essential. What I mean by that is Bikes, Bots, ect. Should stay the same in pricing because they are WANTS in an EpicDuel World not NEEDS. You might want a bike but do you need it? No it only reduces the amount of time travelling and it is more like a item of show for the fact that you can afford it. Do you need a Primary? Yes because it allows you to compete in PvP and is essential to winning, unlike a bike it helps with performance not efficiency.

Other thing to consider: 438 wins for a item at level 33 is counting that you win all of them, if you lose some it is going to take you longer, and if you want you can apply that to the entire argument if you really like math lol.

NOTE:
I am not going to relate this to dealing with experience because that takes another 3 paragraphs of explaining.
Essentially it is the same thing, at level 29-30 experience doubles while at level 28-29 experience increases by only 1250, so to fix this we still want it increasing at a steadier rate starting from certain levels, which is why you might be able to afford all 4 needed items at level 30 compared to 25 because you have more time. This also relates to the broken credit system because of the odd increase in wins needed.

< Message edited by H4ll0w33n -- 11/3/2011 21:15:49 >
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