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1/28/2012 18:11:57   
Stabilis
Member

I am not sure about most of the player-base, but if you see many people out there with just strength or support, its because many of today's weapons have very high requirements... and this can contribute as to why someone "had" to be strength or someone "had" to be support.

Right now I'm sort of lucky. My support stat, even though I don't really want it, is a cool and low requirement of 28. Not bad eh? My technology stat requirement, is from the new Azrael Curse weapon at a reasonably low 32. My dexterity stat requirement, is from my not so favourite Serpent Blaster (I sold this thing before... I didn't think I'd see it again) at also a reasonably low 32. My strength stat requirement, is ALSO from my Serpent Blaster at an astounding 41 strength points. Because of these requirements, I MUST have level one focus (which I don't really need tbh)... but some people, depending on the mix of weapons they have, can be unfortunate enough to have a necessity of level 2 focus and sometimes nearly touching level 3. Let's not forget the stat modifiers, you can't change those. I have a minimum of +19 points to strength. You can imagine what kind of build I am going to need (dexterity lol).

I think that the requirements should be laid off, and that stat modifiers wouldn't be so picky.

But that's just me of course.

What about you?
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
1/28/2012 18:16:47   
Basicball
Member

my min. req for the stuff i use is 32,40,30,32, but since i've been using a (5) focus for as long as i can remember, i never had a problem, and thus don't care, with enchantments

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
1/28/2012 18:18:18   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


The reason they're so focused is because most of ED sees weapons with average requirements on 3 stats(35 on 2 and maybe 40 on a 3rd one) as "encouraging" or "forcing" Focus builds. Either way the requirements are statted someone will complain. It's either too high and causes stat spamming or it's too spread out and encourages players to brainlessly use Focus builds. You just can't win in this category of item statting.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
1/28/2012 18:32:43   
Stabilis
Member

I never win in item statting, I always have focus and focus (believe it or not) is always an option for me because of the requirements.

If we had more stats (stat types not points), we could remove requirements because of how weak each stat would be. I'm going to slam this quote from balance again.

quote:

My suggestions for stat attributes:

Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, rage rate, and enhances certain skills.
-
Dexterity: Increases the chance to block and the accuracy of Primary (only 50% effective), chance to dodge (ranged weapons can completely miss) (only 50% effective), increases base damage range of Sidearm (50%), and enhances certain skills.
-
Technology: Increases robot damage, increases base damage range of Sidearm (50%), increases base damage range of Auxiliaries (50%) and enhances certain skills.
-
Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries (50%), increases the effectiveness of personal buffs (defense matrix, reflex boost, energy shield, technician, etc.), enhances field medic, and enhances certain skills {and by certain I mean very few offensive skills}.
-
Defense: Increases physical defense.
-
Resistance: Increases energy resistance.
-
Luck/Chance: Increases chance to go first, critical strike, chance to connect for Primary-Sidearm-and-Auxiliaries, reduces chance to be stunned, and enhances certain {new} skills.

Strength: Goes well with the the Strike skill which is infinite, and can crush through tanks with the ability to amplify rage.
Dexterity: No longer counts for defense, which protects from half of all attacks, realistically, and comparative to AQ (if you didn't know is extremely balanced for stats), will make ranged attacks better, and also avoid incoming damage from weapons, but, as stated above, only 50% effective.
Technology: This becomes mostly an offensive stat, improving all weapons except for Primaries. Robots improve by this stat 100% like it does right now, but Sidearms and Auxiliaries only improve by 50%. DOES NOT AFFECT ACCURACY.
Support: The helper stat, improves Auxiliaries by 50%, also enhancing skills that boost the player. THIS INCLUDES IMPROVING FIELD MEDIC AGAIN BECAUSE SUPPORT IN THIS VERSION IS ALMOST BALANCED.
Defense: Improves physical defense independently from stats that affect other forms of defense (blocking, which dexterity does, for example).
Resistance: Improves energy resistance independently from stats that affect other forms of energy defense (which would have used to be technology).
Luck/Chance: Needed to be separated from basic combat stats. Support means third-party aid. NOT GAMBLING.


EDIT (this section is new):
Strength affects: Massacre, bludgeon, double strike, intimidate, berzerker, maul, frenzy.
Dexterity affects: No skills.
Technology affects: Smokescreen (50%), EMP grenade (50%), multi-shot (50%), stun grenade (50%), plasma bolt (?) (50%), overload (?) (50%), malfunction (50%), plasma rain (?) (50%), super charge (?) (50%), bunker buster (50%), surgical strike (50%).
Support affects: Field medic, energy shield, reflex boost, defense matrix, technician, field commander, artillery, reinforcements [increases your support or your ally's support during combat], oppose [strike and weaken an enemy by reducing their support in combat], surgical strike (50%).
Luck/Chance CAN affect: Any skill that uses a luck factor (such as cheap shot or maul) (50%).

About Focus (this section is newer):

Option A: Focus still improves the same way it does now. 4 stat points are given per each level up.

Option B: Focus improves when 5 to 7 stats (can include defense, resistance, and luck/chance) are balanced. Therefore, to make focus possible, 5 to 7 stat points are given per each level up. Agility is removed. Example: Level 1 Focus = 25 Strength, 25 Dexterity, 25 Technology, 25 Support, 25 Defense, 25 Resistance, 25 Luck/Chance... and so on.


I still have to work on this suggestion, as I also have to think about more ways to work with focus. Focus could be its own unique stat so that it doesn't interfere with multiple stat types.

Because the effects of stats have been split (a little here but not much), requirements won't be needed as stats by themselves aside from our current attack stats (strength/support) give fewer bonuses at less points allocated.

In this version, the way strength and support scale will be lessened (right now its around +1 base damage for each 4 stat points, it could be +1 base damage for each 8 or 10 points).

Requirements concentrate and restrict a single stat.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
1/28/2012 19:07:13   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


So they should spend several months testing and implementing all those changes just so they can remove something that really isn't a problem in the first place? You're buying a flamethrower to kill a spider when the spider isn't even alive. I'd rather them keep the current stat system and requirements instead of redoing the entire stat system for the entire game and every single NPC and skill and then test all that just so we don't have to deal with requirements. If anything, all those stats will turn ED into AQ where the best builds are set in stone and anything creative will fall flat on its face.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
1/28/2012 19:22:00   
Stabilis
Member

Gee, thanks.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
1/28/2012 20:27:16   
Ranloth
Banned


@The ND Mallet Guy
Why not? It's just a suggestion, and of course it'd take at least months of testing and coding as it's change of whole game. He doesn't say all must be used, but some of his suggestions would really enhance the gameplay and make it more creative + fun.
And I laugh at your comparison of AQ - single player game, to ED - PvP game.. <.< Btw, Sweep in AQ slowly makes all builds equal. It's taking a while but all builds are equal in the end, but go back to beggining of the sentence; you cannot compare.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
1/29/2012 0:41:35   
Remorse
Member

I agree that equipment rquirments are wat too high!

But unfortunately I also think they are necesary because of one big problem..... ENHANCEMENTS!

I can link many ED's problems back to this terriable unecesary feature, I really Hope it's changed.

Some bad follow ups of enhacments I belive are:
-High equipemnt requiments
-High skill requiments and new skill requiments
-Agilaity
-Diminishing returns
-Brainless Oped copy builds
-Extreme costs (practically doubling the cost of the game)
-Variety restricition.(due to enahcment enforced oped builds forcong you to join them or be beatin)
-Wepon restricitions (forces us to use bare minimum of wepons due to the extreme costs)
- Worsen var,non var gap.
-many many more!

The only three usual vaiable rasoning for enhacments are:
- Improve rares (How pointless is this? One you can simply improve rares by giving them a few extra stats in the first place. Two improving rares has been proven to lower balance.)
- Stat freedom ( proberly the only vaible agrument BUT can easily be sustained in a change in enhcements without the above disadvanatges)
- Support the game with Income.( But at what cost? Enhacments has led the game to be practically pay to play in a sence it is impractical to say this feature is fully open to non varims plus feature like these should only be allowed if it benefits the players more then disadvanatges them so in this sence enhacments should be changed)

Thanks for Reading, Remorse Less.
Epic  Post #: 8
1/29/2012 17:06:46   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


1. If defense and resistance improves with only one point then tank builds will be OPd.
2. If they improve with multiple points then strength builds will be OPd.
3. Dodging a bullet and an explosive round are ridiculously unrealistic and will make Str Hunters and TLMs OPd(both have dex nerf).
4. TLMs will be back on top because Support Tanks will dodge everything, heal what they don't dodge, and be able to kill you with a gun as well as their auxes plus Artillery Strike
5. All these changes will take more time than it's worth in coding and testing and will probably end up scrapped because of balance issues it will cause. Most people playing ED get rage filled if releases are released every two weeks. Several months? Yeah, no.

Top 5 reasons those stats shouldn't be implemented.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
1/29/2012 17:36:12   
nico0las
Member

So we complain about stat abuse and now we're asking for LOWER requirements?
If only we had a facepalm smiley here....

Well, I don't mind the stat requirements that much. Being a dex mage, I use all the stats equally (although dex is the most important), and it pays to have a well balanced build, stat-wise. What DOES bother me is when you have a high amount of X stat and it doesn't work. (This is not the case for strength and technology, as strength is offensive and Tech raises resistance, bot and some skills. Neither have a chance factor). For example,my support requirement is 35. I have a total of 68 (including points off my gear) support without any enhancements. What bothers me is having that many stat points in support and NOT GOING FIRST against enemies who have one third, or half my support. Not to mention getting deflected.

So, all I'm going to say is, if we're going to have high requirements, the stats we raise better actually work.
I can't tell you how many times dexterity and support have failed to help me despite them being generally, if not very high.

So: high requirements are alright, provided the stat works.
Do we need lowered requirements? Not really.

< Message edited by nico0las -- 1/29/2012 17:42:02 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/29/2012 19:14:36   
Stabilis
Member

General comment: What if you had planned on using good support AND strength, but couldn't because your equipment had high modifications in tech and dex... (example: beta set w/ tesla armour and you can't afford anymore). Now there is no requirements for stats that you don't want, but the mods (which set limiters), are preventing you from your greatest potential to have strength and support as your greatest stats. Since, if you had the mods set to str and sup, you could save on reinforcements to your health and energy. What do you do then?

quote:

1. If defense and resistance improves with only one point then tank builds will be OPd. 2. If they improve with multiple points then strength builds will be OPd. 3. Dodging a bullet and an explosive round are ridiculously unrealistic and will make Str Hunters and TLMs OPd(both have dex nerf). 4. TLMs will be back on top because Support Tanks will dodge everything, heal what they don't dodge, and be able to kill you with a gun as well as their auxes plus Artillery Strike 5. All these changes will take more time than it's worth in coding and testing and will probably end up scrapped because of balance issues it will cause. Most people playing ED get rage filled if releases are released every two weeks. Several months? Yeah, no.

Top 5 reasons those stats shouldn't be implemented.


If defense and resistance improves with only stat tanks are OP?! I'm pretty sure tanks are the definition of OP already. Besides, how is dexterity purely balanced? You can shield from physical damage quite cheaply and block better with the more points dexterity gets. It also improves multiple skills, offense and defense, skills like multi-shot and technician. Dexterity scales with focus, and as focus' second best stat next to support, gives the much needed luck. With defense as it's own stat, the base number can be adjusted easily when it comes to how many stat points it takes to increase base defense by 1. Dexterity stops improving past 200 roughly, it gives 3 already mentioned bonuses!!! Defense, Primary accuracy advantage, and skills to further improve! If stats weren't abused, it would be because they weren't enough points to concentrate to give a stat enough power, and that would be because we had more stats to diffuse the given effects.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 1/29/2012 19:33:03 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
1/30/2012 21:29:28   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


I said if those defenses improved with only 1 stat invested in them. At level 34 you will have 132 stats from leveling. You can put 50 on both defenses and then 32 points into health(which equals 64 health). So you get 60+ on both sides without any armors and around 100 health. Can you cut through that without any criticals or rage? After so much defense, rage becomes useless. If it takes several points then the only option people will have is to pour everything into strength or support to get damage since defense would be useless. 4 stats for only defense and no way to attack? You either nerf tanks to oblivion and increase strength and support spamming or you turn tanks into indestructable builds.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/30/2012 21:37:47   
xxmirxx
Member
 

quote:

I am not sure about most of the player-base, but if you see many people out there with just strength or support, its because many of today's weapons have very high requirements... and this can contribute as to why someone "had" to be strength or someone "had" to be support.
actually because agility why so many are force to do copy past builts.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
1/30/2012 21:46:12   
Retrosaur
Member
 

Okay....
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/30/2012 22:27:42   
Stabilis
Member

OK ND Mallet, to suit your needs we are going to remove enhancements, health, energy, strength, dexterity, technology,support, and other side additions like focus.

We are going to have 1 stat and it will be named CRAMITALLINTOONEPACKAGEWAFFLE. This stat takes care of everything. Now the best varium gear determines who has the most of this stat.

Ya, I like it too.

...

Why won't you consider that everything about stats is congested??!! The only GOOD stats are health and energy but even health worsens over high numbers!

Because of how OP stats are, ya that's right, classes aren't OP, its things like str, dex, tec, and sup. Why are focus users so powerful...? I'll tell you the blatant truth, its because they have neutralized high levels of the 4 OP stats without suffering a true repercussion!!!

Gasp.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
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