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Blood Mage(s), left out of the loop

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2/25/2012 15:21:05   
Nexus...
Member

I'm sure you have seen my various posts about Blood Mage in the past, and today I am posting on the forums (after a 2 month hiatus) to tell you that the developers have knowingly been keeping something from us about this class. It actually really wasn't born of bad intentions, but after this much time I find it to be pretty ridiculous that they have neither fixed this issue, nor made effective efforts to change it.

The effects of Blood Lust do not stack with Supercharge. This means that where Supercharge would normally return 50% of damage (with a level 7 BL) it only returns 30% as it would normally with the Tech Mage class, therefore negating the effects of Blood Lust (the key Blood Mage passive).

This has been confirmed by a moderator, you can test it for yourself if you would like. Originally Blood Mage was not supposed to have supercharge at all (apparently), and instead a new final skill. The other classes were supposed to receive new final skills as well (I believe this was mentioned in the design notes a while back.) However, they didn't have time to implement these new skills in time for the Delta release, so they put them on a very long waiting list. Subsequently, Blood Mage ended up getting the short end of this decision (like usual), as they ALSO decided not to code in the effects of bloodlust onto supercharge. I might understand if the class was still new, and they had plans to implement the new skills in one of the next releases, but its been more than 7 months, and there has been no change whatsoever. Furthermore, Blood Mage is extremely limited in builds (as I have explained in previous posts), with one of there only effective builds being strength based, and with support out of the equation (because of the deflection change), the only other valid build would be dexterity based, thus making use of supercharge.


I see this as taking the effects of bloodlust away from Massacre. It would be a huge blow to the class, and it would make no sense. I also think it is wrong they never told us about this, and left us out of the loop for so long. Blood Mage has been neglected in many ways, and I have explained them all before on the forum. If you can't find them, come and get me, I will be more than happy to tell you all about it. The long and the short of it is that this "small" mistake (that they know about), really ends up handicapping the class even further then it already is.

What do you think? Should they make the new skills a priority for this reason, and if not, should they at least fix the connection between BloodLust and Supercharge in the meantime? Going into the future would you like to hear about changes like this from the developers themselves? I think more communication, especially in situations like this, would benefit everyone.

Thanks for reading, have a nice weekend.


Prophet
*No flaming please
*Be constructive

< Message edited by Nexus... -- 2/25/2012 15:44:31 >
Epic  Post #: 1
2/25/2012 15:40:19   
TurkishIncubus
Member

100% agree , i also reported this on bug section and when a mod told its not a bug, Bloodlust is not effect Supercharge, i was WTF this game is very ridiculous.

With max bloodlust hp return from SC should be 53%, its not because BM is UP and need buff , its just because there is no logic in bloodlust not effect SC

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 2
2/25/2012 15:46:24   
Oba
Member

Yeap. Pretty weird why it dosent, actually. Its like if bloodlust had no effect with massacre!
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
2/25/2012 16:08:22   
rej
Member

Supported. This outrage must be corrected at once.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
2/25/2012 17:53:19   
Hun Kingq
Member

Everyone knows they will do nothing for the Blood Mage because if they have not done so they will never do so but just let it die with Delta and make a new mage class with messed up skills for the next phase and try to convince everyone this next evolution of mage will be better. They could have put max Blood Lust at 30% return instead of 23% (Level 5 Reroute). They could have gave the Blood mage a Debuff skill that seeks out the stat with the highest points and since no damage the effects on that stat and weapon would be the greatest, but they won't.

Epic  Post #: 5
2/25/2012 18:38:42   
AQWPlayer
Member

@Hun Kingq
BloodLust at 30%? Stop dreaming bro :P
Health is more important than energy, so it makes sense for it to have a lower %
AQW  Post #: 6
2/25/2012 18:51:08   
Oba
Member

Yet, with a higher energy regain %, you can easily heal loop. Which gives you hp aswell then.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
2/25/2012 18:51:35   
Hun Kingq
Member

Since health is more important than energy then max reroute and static charge should be put at 23%. Since you say health is more important then why is there a greater energy return at max than a health return at max. You tried to disagree but by saying "Health is more important than energy," you basically agreed.
Epic  Post #: 8
2/25/2012 19:00:26   
rej
Member

^Hung, you really need to learn how to reason properly. If something is more important than something else in a game that revolves around balance, then it should automatically be weaker. Don't you understand that? If Blood lust were to become as powerful as static charge and reroute, all heck would break loose.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
2/25/2012 19:07:01   
Hun Kingq
Member

rej, If something is more important than another, then that one thing should have a high percentage. So if health is more important than energy should not there be a high health return than energy return do you also fail to understand this?
Epic  Post #: 10
2/25/2012 19:10:10   
rej
Member

*Sigh* I feel like I am trying to explain quantum physics to a toddler.

Let us just for a moment consider your convoluted theory of importance of skill vs. power. Under your theory, an ability (let us just use Blood Lust as an example) is already semi overcharged and the staple to all intelligent Bounty Hunter's builds. Since, under your theory, the more important skills should be more powerful than less important skills, then blood lust should thus be buffed to equal or greater than static charge. If this were to happen, strength abusing massacre builds already common in today's game would suddenly multiply by 10 as intelligent players realized that with the buffed blood lust, they would heal enough to negate 80% of all attacks while simultaneously dealing massive damage. Players may also begin to use blood mage more often. Bounty hunter would replace Cyber Hunter as the most Overpowered class, and the game would be left even worse off than it is now.
I ask you, how can you truly believe what you are saying?

< Message edited by rej -- 2/25/2012 19:19:22 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
2/25/2012 19:12:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 I think what he meant by Health > Energy:
Higher return from BL would give you bigger advantage. HP is important but you'd get too much of it.
Energy is less important thus higher gain from it on some classes. TM has it as it's a Mage class and it's logical to have it and not all classes need to use Energy or high amount of it.

It's not like more Energy can save you in battle; as in it won't be as good as HP which keeps you alive NOT "you can heal, use skill, etc" <.<
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
2/25/2012 19:14:52   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

Yeah BMs aren't reallly that strong unless they use a STR build even then their defenses usually suck. @Hun Kingq Dude Blood lust would be way to powerful if it was equal to Reroute or Static Charge in terms of %. 30% or 44% of all dmg goes to HP?! You're joking right?
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
2/25/2012 19:21:10   
DeathGuard
Member

Remember Blood Lust works when hitting a opponent, you regain a percent of the damage while reroute works when you receive damage and receive a percent of energy back because of being "hitted". Both skills works really different and reroute is a higher percent because you need to be hitted and receive damage which can cost you a battle if you receive way too much damage.

Blood Mages need more variable skills, which costs low energy but also can deal high damage, I'm still saying that blood mage should get double skill and assimilation but who knows about next balance update.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
2/25/2012 20:29:30   
liy010
Member

How about...They increase Bloodlust to 44% and it only works on "Strike" and nothing else...We all Happy?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
2/25/2012 20:31:33   
Hatsuka
Member

^^ Not agreed. First, that will Ruin 2 class ( Bounty Hunter and Blood Mage ) and Blood Lust is the only important skill in Blood Mage.

< Message edited by Hatsuka -- 2/25/2012 20:33:07 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
2/25/2012 20:38:42   
liy010
Member

Ummmm....Bounty is Basically Smoke, Strike, Strike, Strike, Repeat
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
2/25/2012 21:00:08   
Ranloth
Banned


 Multi BH isn't. Nor is Support. And BMs? You're restricting them even further but also weakening. Berzerker won't work, Plasma nor Fireball.
It's fine now, just make it work with SC maybe. Although not sure if 53% damage to HP was the reason to not make them stack.
Also Intimidate will get boosted for Mercs and BMs when they get to it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
2/25/2012 21:12:54   
drinde
Member

quote:

Ummmm....Bounty is Basically Smoke, Strike, Strike, Strike, Repeat


I resent this. Some of us use strategicly placed EMPs, you know.

Also, couldn't they just make Intimidate reduce a % of the DMG taken? Problem solved. (Maybe)
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 19
2/25/2012 21:21:53   
Nexus...
Member

If everyone could please stay on topic that would be wonderful. This is not a discussion about BloodLust vs Reroute or any of the other passives, it is rather a thread about how BloodLust does not effect SuperCharge. Anyone who has been around long enough would know that BL/Reroute are part of the original classes, and therefore are balanced the way they are. In the future, please take any off topic discussion to the balance thread.

quote:

Although not sure if 53% damage to HP was the reason to not make them stack.


No, this is not the reason why they do not stack. It has been confirmed by a moderator that they never had time for the new skills, and "didn't feel it was necessary" to make BL stack with Supercharge in the meantime.


Prophet
Epic  Post #: 20
2/25/2012 21:29:15   
DeathGuard
Member

@Nexus: I really don't know it will be a good idea to mix up both, I know BM needs more variability in builds but 53% seems too much, but I wouldn't mind if this happen maybe that supercharge in BM skill tree has different special abilities than normal supercharge from TM. The best idea would be to make new ultimate skills according to each new class, I really can't imagine a SC build from a BM with such destructive power but their defenses would be quite weak, would be acounter and I'm still imagining a situation where they would be able to use the SC since they can be emped or assimilated, but I think it would work if half of the effect of bloodlust was given into it.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 21
2/25/2012 21:37:32   
Nexus...
Member

Blood Lust: Adds to your health a percentage of all damage you inflict. (ED Wiki)

I agree that the best way to handle this would be to implement the new skills. However, they have had 7 months to do so (almost 8), and in the meantime Blood Mage has received no compensation for the lack of stacking between a its main passive and ultimate skill. I think it is odd that you think BloodLust + SuperCharge is to much, but BloodLust + Massacre isn't. I really don't see any difference. Yes, Supercharge would allow for a 53% heal, but Massacre would theoretically heal MORE because of how much more damage it does. You also have to remember that BM cannot regen energy or take it away, nor does it have a debuff. I think it should have been a no-brainer to implement stacking. After all, the skill says "all damage", but we are getting "some damage" instead.


Prophet
Epic  Post #: 22
2/25/2012 21:58:29   
rej
Member

^I agree completely Nexus. It was childish and lazy to Leave this GLITCH unfixed for so long. Hopefully now that it has been brought to light, it will be fixed in the next two updates.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
2/25/2012 22:18:03   
DeathGuard
Member

@Nexus: We should take in mind that massacre has no special ability that helps it unlike Surgical Strike and Super Charge but still it is powerful, since it can be abused by strength, massacre takes bloodlust effect because it has no special ability. I think that if half effect of Bloodlust was given to SC of BMs it would be fair and helped them, for me it is going in the right direction if they do this.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 24
2/25/2012 23:37:01   
Nexus...
Member

Looks like I'll have to do some math. Yes there are many variables that cannot be accounted for, but this is about as accurate as it will get in my opinion.


Supercharge:

Hypothetical:

Does 45 damage on an opponent at level 7
Would heal back 23 damage with a level 7 Bloodlust (40/2 = 20)

Verdict: 23 HP Gained



Massacre:

Hypothetical:

Normal strike does 25 damage without smoke
BloodLust and Massacre are at level 7

25*2.16 = 54 (+116% damage)
54*.20 = 11 HP Gained + 9 additional damage done to enemy

Normal strike does 36 damage with smoke
BloodLust and Massacre are at level 7

36*2.16 = 78 (+116% damage)
78*.20 = 16 HP Gained + 33 additional damage done to enemy



I think massacre definitely takes the lead when paired with Smoke, and slightly underperforms without it. However, when was the last time you saw a Massacre BH/CH not use Smoke/Malf? Not something that is very effective, and usually a build you won't see. SuperCharge increases with Dexterity, Massacre increases with Strength [=]

Final Verdict: Massacre paired with Smoke >= Supercharge + Bloodlust


No need to cut the regen in half, seems pretty even to me.



Prophet


< Message edited by Nexus... -- 2/25/2012 23:39:26 >
Epic  Post #: 25
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