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4/16/2012 9:08:35   
gangster a
Member

i dont understand how changing supercharge so it improves with tech is a good thing i mean they have technition so they will be even more powerful and i think this is a buff rather then a nerf.

if you think its a nerf please explain how so
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/16/2012 9:17:32   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because we cannot do Bolt -> Multi -> Attack -> Bolt -> Multi combo. Now it's Bolt -> Attack -> Attack/Heal -> Bolt/SC instead. If we abuse Tech, then we get much lower attack on 2 turns before casting a skill again, and before it was a bit different. Dex is fine now with TMs, 2v2 build can be insteresting with Multi + Overlord + Technican (it improves with Dex so additional Res & good for Bolt for cheap EP cost). And Technican + Caster? We need either high Technican, high Dex OR mix of both to use your combo given.

Just wait, I'd say requirements may be changed for some skills in TM skill tree to balance it out. At least I hope so as I PM'd Practel about it and he noted it. :P

Forgot to mention - once Betas get requirements, abuse won't be as easy. Sure there are weapons that may not have Str/Support requirement but even if you have a stat with no requirements, you have other 3 that do and might not give you as good stat bonuses as you'd want.

@below
Str requirement for SC deals with abuse of it with high EP and Reroute + favours BMs to use it & Support requirement for Reroute instead of Tech which favours both TLMs and TMs atm. Then they'll have to invest more in Str and Support to use build (Caster) more effectively rather than spam Tech and meet Dex requirements on SC. ;)

< Message edited by Trans -- 4/16/2012 9:28:34 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
4/16/2012 9:26:32   
BlueKatz
Member

I think the Tech TM is a bit overboard now, especially with Bot. Bolt - Bot - Aux/Heal - Bolt - SC - Bot is really strong if you have enough HP to stand. The main problem is Skill Points though since you really should have DM
The most annoying thing is the Bot. If you can't block it you are surely die

I think the STR requirement should be back as the least
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
4/16/2012 9:29:16   
drinde
Member

Yea, am totally wondering why the DEVs didn't just throw the STR Req back and be done with it.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 4
4/16/2012 10:50:17   
  RabbleFroth
Member

quote:

Yea, am totally wondering why the DEVs didn't just throw the STR Req back and be done with it.


This might be a great fix to the problem if we only had to worry about higher level players. Unfortunately a decent Strength requirement on a TMs tier 1 skill forces lower players into one specific type of build, and if they don't use that build, they generally just lose because they have no damage. Not to say it's completely off the table, but we wanted to explore other options before just reverting.

I also think TMs have a few more viable build options now. If the numbers are a little crazy, now we can adjust them. Before the problem was more than just a numbers game.
Post #: 5
4/16/2012 11:17:07   
Arcanis
Member

Rabbbabe,maybe the problem is in that that you try to even things out throughout all levels same way.
Unless there was MAJOR shift in experience gain,it takes cca 10 k experience to get to lv 20.With power hours and
relatively fast fights at lover levels,average player should get there in few days,lets say a week. Thats 1500 exp per day
which is 50 wins per day. That was also always the reason why many people in 2v2 still use base weapons till lv 20 or so,
lv growth speed makes many weapons not profitable in longer runs.

Dynamic requirements on skills would work better than static ones,
similar to medic and assimilate which depend on player level too.
Str is the most viable stat mostly because 2 simple reasons: primary is always usable,and it can be used almost without
any support from energy stat. Not to mention that the fact that the gun too depends on str,which with alternate weapons types
makes a whole lot of whoopass possible in a row combined with any str dependable skill.

Sure,one might say thats what blocks and deflects are for,but to base counterbuild on a factor determined by a RNG,which is,tbh,
very suspicious in itself,isn't the path PvP should go.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/16/2012 12:08:34   
Goony
Constructive!


 It would be a lot easier to give decent feedback if the devs shared their concerns more often. But, didn't Ashari mention a while ago that mages were doing ok in the lower levels after the buff to plasma bolt and with the extra damage that the staffs now have, maybe it's a case that mages are not utilising skills effectively and the low win ratio in the lower levels could be attributed to poor execution rather than them being underpowered...

I have a lower level non varium mage account and it does fine... Mages have some of the best strength builds per unit of energy cost in the game with deadly aim and bludgeon and as such it would be better if the requirement was support...

All this update did at max level was change the mage builds from technology to dexterity. Now the mages block more and use a skill with a chance to stun... Overload, multi, gun/heal, overload... Same story different statistic, mages with beta weapons can get 160 dex and that equates to a level 1 technician that gives 50 tech... From my perspective I'd much prefer then to deflect than to block and stun.
Epic  Post #: 7
4/16/2012 13:27:19   
  RabbleFroth
Member

@Arcanis,

Despite the fact that someone moves through the lower levels quickly, if their class is severely underpowered at early levels (Like Tech Mages used to be), they are much more likely to simply stop playing because they are losing 70%+ of their battles, which is just not enjoyable.

Also, many players will not get 50+ wins in a day. It might take them a month or more to reach level 20. Just because they play at a slower pace does not make them less important.
Post #: 8
4/16/2012 13:31:56   
rayniedays56
Member

@ Rabblefroth

The ideas implemented for the Tech Mage were well drawn out :)


I have a level 20 tech mage who is a Dex abuser (lol)


I am now winning 15% more battles than before (out of how many I do in a day, about 30)


I have also began to see an inkling of Strength Tech Mages, which is VERY weird since I have NEVER seen this, not even with my 34 cyber!


I like the update, it is teaching players that winning is not as important as having fun
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/16/2012 13:36:03   
Ranloth
Banned


 Rabble, would you be able to look at Balance Tracker of TMs after the change and look at how perhaps abusers are doing? I mean the popular Caster build: same as before but with SC instead of Plasma Rain. Requirements on SC and Reroute should be changed to 2 stats they neglect when abusing - Str and Support.
quote:

Support - Reroute; currently it's Tech which is main stat of most of the TMs so there's no point having it there, and TLMs usually will have higher Tech as well to go with Mineral Armor. Support benefits TMs by Matrix and Malf while for TLMs it's just Multi but having 42 Support requirement at Lvl 10 is not too much as many players go for Lvl 7 which is just 36 Support. Chances are, your equipment will have similar requirement anyway but yet, it brings abuse down.

Strength - Super Charge; currently it's Dex. Seeing as TMs have no passive Armor, it's obvious they will invest in Dex a bit so it won't kill them to invest 42 Str at most at Lvl 10 SC. Seeing as just Malf has Strength requirement, which is already low - being max of 38 Str whilst many TMs and CHs go for Lvl 5-7 then it's 28-32 Strength which is very small amount. CHs would not mind that requirement as their SC depends on damage and they are likely to invest more in Strength while TMs that use Caster builds (Plasma and SC) don't need Strength. If a player decides for Malf + SC combo then he needs to train Str a bit, so that won't kill them either.

^ That's my opinion about it and justification of it.

Otherwise change is good, TMs have ability to do any build now and find a use of every stat, even Str which is rare for TMs at the moment but ND Mallet has a great build as well as OWA which use Str and they do work quite effectively for F2P and Varium players. xD
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
4/16/2012 13:47:19   
rayniedays56
Member

Hows this idea guys! :)


It is in the skill suggestions, but since this is Tech Mage...


I have another one of ingenious ideas! :)


This is for da Tech Mages since I have an alt tech mage! :P



What if, and hear me out, what if the DA passive was BUFFED for the TM (stays the same on BM, or even nerfed).


Instead of it doing a percentage of the weapons strength, how about it add a lower percentage (23% at max) BUT also add a percentage of enemies defense/resistance ignored! :)

It will hopefully encourage Tech Mages to try Strength builds :)


Heres how it would work:


DA (new)

Level 1: 9% more attack on gun +10% defenses ignored
Level 2: 12% more attack and +12% defenses ignored
Level 3: 15% more attack and +14% defenses ignored
Level 4: 17% more attack and +16% defenses ignored
Level 5: 18% more attack and +18% defenses ignored
Level 6: 19% more attack and +19% defenses ignored
Level 7: 20% more attack and +20% defenses ignored
Level 8: 21% more attack and +21% defenses ignored
Level 9: 22% more attack and +22% defenses ignored
Level 10 (max): 23% more attack and +23% defenses ignored

(CANNOT GO HIGHER THAN +10)

Theoretical? :)




So lets say a Tech Mage with 20+ on their primary (80 strength?) would have a maxed NEW deadly aim...heres how it would work



Tech Mage


GUN (22-27+35 physical)


23% of 35=8

22-27+35 (+8)

22-27+43 AND ignores 23% of enemy

LETS say enemy has 30-36+1 defense


You hit at 25, so it is 25+43=68 damage ALREADY

since 23% of 31-37 (i added the one) is 24-29, the damage of the Strength Tech Mage would be....


68-(say they defense at 26)

68-26=42 damage done


So the Tech Mage could do 42 damage at this new DA, and hopefully inspire Strength Builds, because Bludgeon is a nice strength skill also! :)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/16/2012 21:23:58   
ScarletReaper
Member

Yeah, when I saw supercharge now improved with tech I was like duuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrpppppp, um, So instead of a less powerfull multi, they can now do like 50 damage with bolt, and ridiculous damage with supercharge? Add to that the fact that they have reroute so they can actually pull off both moves, unlike bm, and I said to myself... "what nerf?"

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
4/16/2012 21:35:12   
Hun Kingq
Member

ScarletReaper, to get any damage a mage, either class, have to have Super High Dex. that is why I put on max reflex boost to get 80 potential damage from Plasma Rain to get in the high 40s. Yesterday I was getting in the high 50s t70s then after the fix I am back down to the mid 30s 3nd low 40s while with the merc class having 141 29-35 could get 47 plus damage even on me with high dex/defense build.
Epic  Post #: 13
4/16/2012 21:42:45   
ScarletReaper
Member

What I'm saying is high tech build is almost more powerfull than before for tm. Supercharge improving with tech is waaaaayyyy better for them than plasma rain ever was.

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
4/17/2012 1:52:47   
Laces
Member

But now with SC improving with Tech, thats less stats spent on Dex which makes melee classes like BM and BH as well as TLM better against TMs.
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
4/17/2012 6:58:48   
BlueKatz
Member

quote:

But now with SC improving with Tech, thats less stats spent on Dex which makes melee classes like BM and BH as well as TLM better against TMs.

Well that's even more unnecessary since BM and BH really good vs TM already. TLM not though
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
4/17/2012 12:55:52   
friend18
Member

Interestingly enough, my tech mage wasn't affected by the recent changes. He just relies on max bolt and has a ton of dex (doesn't rely on supercharge or rain, has decent tech around 60ish). And he's been doing just fine with 1 v 1 and 2 v 2.

However, I feel with the recent changes, people are still abusing tech, but instead of plasma rain, it's now supercharge. I ended up getting bolted and supercharged twice in a row in this one fight :/ Wasn't fun.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
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