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Tactical Mercenary skill changes

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9/11/2012 11:38:17   
Stonehawk
Member

Well, I don't know if you guys figured out, but tactical are in big disadvantage when we talk about skills.
It is said that they removed smoke for that field commander... But let's think about it:

1- Tactical mercenaries now are the only class that can't lower any of opponent's stats, all the others have skills to do that.
2- Stun grenade's damage is REALLY low, maybe because bounties have smoke, which made them hit more, so it was nerfed... but tacticals doesn't, so even if you get epic dex, it still does low damage.
3- Atom smasher, frenzy and double strike can be blocked, which means we need dex, and the only DEX skill was nerfed, as I said on 2.
4- Field commander can increase strength, but even mercenaries' is a bit better, because it gives a (very) little health.

I just feel like the weak skills were mixed and put together on a single class, which is the one I use.
I must confess that reroute is great, but mages can also reroute, AND lower opponent's tech, AND boost his own, and EVEN increase DEFENSE. Tacticals can only increase strength.

Well, I think it's enough for now... here are some suggestions:
1- EMP grenade for tacticals. Even the class' picture is a tactical holding a grenade, so maybe we could be the grenade guys :P
2- Smoke screen instead of Field commander or at least blood commander.
3- Frenzy should be changed, maybe unblockable OR at least be available for swords, because it's just like cyber's skill that increases energy on a hit, the only difference is that it increases health instead, and cybers can use that with a sword.
4- Maul can be blocked, but ignored some defense. If we can't smoke screen, it would be a better stun skill for tacticals

These are only suggestions, I really think something should be changed. Maybe there could be other changes that would balance fights more. Please read my suggestions and make it a bit more fair for the tactical mercenaries!!!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/11/2012 11:54:27   
Bunshichi
Member

As much as I'd like to see a little changes to this class some of these are ehhh

quote:

1- EMP grenade for tacticals. Even the class' picture is a tactical holding a grenade, so maybe we could be the grenade guys :P

Yeah but I still want it based on str

quote:

2- Smoke screen instead of Field commander or at least blood commander.

Even without technician people would not want tlm with this skill.

quote:

3- Frenzy should be changed, maybe unblockable OR at least be available for swords, because it's just like cyber's skill that increases energy on a hit, the only difference is that it increases health instead, and cybers can use that with a sword
.
Cyber hunters static charge is also blockable. Many swords have better stats then half of the classes main weapons maybe that is why its is maul only.

quote:

4- Maul can be blocked, but ignored some defense. If we can't smoke screen, it would be a better stun skill for tacticals

No problems with that.

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 9/12/2012 12:14:58 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
9/11/2012 11:59:34   
Stonehawk
Member

Yeah these were just suggestions I was thinking now, not the best by the way, but still helps a little... I accept more suggestions! But changes are needed urgently!

And, well, you want it based on STRENGTH because it's probably your way to play with a tactical, which is kinda selfish...
I just want it a little balanced, so that we have choices, not only poison all the time.

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 9/11/2012 12:01:34 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
9/11/2012 12:14:53   
MONCHITO19
Member

Im agree with you Stonehawk. We need a change of skill. We need a skill like SMOKE SCREEN OR MALFUNCTION
Epic  Post #: 4
9/11/2012 12:25:59   
Bunshichi
Member

quote:

And, well, you want it based on STRENGTH because it's probably your way to play with a tactical, which is kinda selfish...


What are talking about atom smash is good even when you are intimidated unless its a 7 or 8. I'm 5 focus I have plenty of option to play off of. I don't touch 1 vs 1 but I have visited 2 vs 2 and juggs often enough to know tlm's are not horrible you can always go merc....the only thing I notice is the length of our fights its long.

A emp with a guy having 27-33 tech does does 28 thats more than my atom smash at lvl 1
I have yet to see a tlm with low tech but by all means I'd love to zap 31 energy from my opponent.

< Message edited by Bunshichi -- 9/11/2012 12:43:19 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
9/11/2012 12:46:45   
Stonehawk
Member

I'm just giving random suggestions, 'cause most of the skills gives disadvantages. That was just an example because most of tactical mercenaries' unblockable skills are weaker, like stun grenade. (at least in my opinion)

If you compare to other classes, you will see how overpowered the others can be, while tacticals... well...

I take a bounty as an example:
He can make your dexterity lower. ALL of his attacks will give them health, and smoke screen makes them hit more. Smoke screen also makes them block a lot more, JUST LIKE shadow arts. They can also choose to stun grenade after it, making a good damage with a chance to stun.

Now a tech mage:
Most skills hit energy, and they can MALF to make tech lower. And they also reroute. Enough said, I guess.

Now tell me the good news about tactical mercenaries, if you think I talk nonsense.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
9/11/2012 12:53:47   
Ranloth
Banned


 TLMs cannot get any debuff, you must lose Reroute or Passive Armor in order to do so since you cannot have all 3 at once. Ashari had a choice between removing Smoke or Reroute, Smoke was wiser since Reroute allows you to somewhat loop and make up for the Smoke loss and more.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
9/11/2012 12:55:59   
Bunshichi
Member

Assualt bot reduces the debuff
Gamma bot has a unblockable but deflectable special
Baby Yeti takes their side/aux but I've only seen it once
Smoke/Malf last 3 turns robot,gun,aux
Have not seen many fierce tech mages just high caster builds with 110hp and 100 energy
From what I hear the infernal android is still powerful with the tlm class depending on how long the fight is

You can always jugg.....

< Message edited by Bunshichi -- 9/11/2012 12:58:04 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
9/11/2012 13:13:26   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

TLMs cannot get any debuff, you must lose Reroute or Passive Armor in order to do so since you cannot have all 3 at once. Ashari had a choice between removing Smoke or Reroute, Smoke was wiser since Reroute allows you to somewhat loop and make up for the Smoke loss and more.


Okay, but what would I do with all that energy that comes back, since most good skills abre blockable, and the unblockable ones are only good when you can debuff?
(I'm not talking about poison, it's the only skill that makes tacticals really different, but I personally don't like it)
Passive armor only makes you need less dex to get average defense, but most skills won't hit if you don't have dex so... Don't you think something would change about that class?


quote:

Smoke/Malf last 3 turns robot,gun,aux


Then you get massacred, and bounties' health is high again.
In my opinion, it' kinda unbalanced.


< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 9/11/2012 13:17:40 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
9/11/2012 14:39:23   
Stonehawk
Member

EMP grenade instead of atom smasher and Maul instead of stun grenade... What you guys think?
Or is everything okay? I want suggestions or opinions about Tactical Mercenaries.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
9/11/2012 15:33:02   
Ranloth
Banned


 EMP is Hunter skill and CHs as well as BHs have it, TLMs don't fit in it at all. Atom is fine since it's also cheaper than EMP and can be stronger too so it makes up for fact it's blockable. Maul for Stun is fine since it's a small boost and gives some power to Strength builds as well as other Tank ones that may use it for defence ignore (cannot be used together with Smoke due to.. lack of Smoke).
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
9/12/2012 8:40:25   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

Maul for Stun is fine since it's a small boost and gives some power to Strength builds as well as other Tank ones that may use it for defence ignore


Yeah, then one more blockable skill. Every tactical will have to spam dexterity to be able to use any skill... That's why I was thinking of EMP and Maul changes.
Stun grenade MUST be changed. If you think about it, there's PHYSICAL stun grenade for bounties because of smoke and ENERGY stun grenade for cybers because of malfunction.


...how about Field commander? Blood commander was nerfed, it gives very little health, so I think it wouldn't make TLMs overpowered.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
9/12/2012 8:57:29   
Ranloth
Banned


 Blood Commander was nerfed? Lolwhut? It's unique skill ONLY for Mercenaries (it was said once already) not TLMs and it's as strong as FC + HP regen on attacks. It always gave little Health since it works with any skill which makes it quite good with decent BC and good weapons/skills.

And how is blockable skill a problem? EMP is BH and CH skill so giving it to TLMs makes no sense. Maul was good before and now you don't like it? Sorry you can't have best of both worlds and you already have Poison and SS that are unblockable and strong as they are (one passes through defences completely). Maul would be a buff since you hate Stun Grenade and it's not like you don't have to spam Dex to use Grenade as it is now? Thing is that Maul improves chances as well as ignores 20% of defences but whatever you say.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
9/12/2012 9:15:17   
Mother1
Member

^ Trans I think he means the bug that mad BC give 100% health back if a certain condition was met such as it being weakened by the azreal borgs special or something like that. But that wasn't a nerf as it was never meant to be that potent in the first place.
Epic  Post #: 14
9/12/2012 9:59:51   
Stonehawk
Member

Blood commander used to give more health, I think. I used it a lot when I was a mercenary. But it doesn't matter, I'm talking about TLM skill changes to make it not so weak so that he stand a chance against the other classes, and more balanced duels. If you compare the other classes, they all have a lot of options, TLMs doesn't. But it's just my opinion, I'm not always right, I just want to know if I'm the only one that thinks TLMs needs some changes
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
9/12/2012 10:14:08   
Darkwing
Member

TLM has energy regen, passive armor, health regen. Sure you need dex so your frenzy,double strike,Atom smasher will not get blocked often....but evry other class has that problem?

Blood commander: you have 3 ways to get health: FM, Frenzy, SS....now you want 4?
Smoke: reason why TLM was op, no way they put it back
Maul: instead of stun Grenade? this could be a good change

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 9/12/2012 10:18:07 >
Post #: 16
9/12/2012 12:34:22   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

TLM has energy regen, passive armor, health regen. Sure you need dex so your frenzy,double strike,Atom smasher will not get blocked often....but evry other class has that problem?


Bounties doesn't have a big problem, they can smoke screen.
Tech Mages doesn't have much problem with it, since they got strong unblockable skills.
cyber hunters need dex to hit, but they got plasma armor to support energy defenses.

All those skills you said needs strength to be effective, and dexterity to hit, so we need both to be high, giving us few build options with them. How do you call this TACTICAL?
We need more skills, to have choices! I hope someone thinks about it and makes a good change, instead of NERFING this class even more

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
9/12/2012 12:57:46   
Ranloth
Banned


 You have SS build, Poison, complete Tank, Strength (Frenzy), Support/Multi, what else do you need? You have all possibilities but Dex which doesn't really work well for TLMs. How we call that tactical? With so many options, people pick Poison or SS, that's it. You're limiting yourself and won't try other ones. If that's not tactical - to have variety of builds - then I don't know what you want.

Also TM only has 4 unblockable skills, all costing Energy and Multi will be not counted since all classes have it so it's 3 but Ultimate is also one of them so 2 unblockable. Right. And you have passive Armor and Reroute to cover it as well as Poison which can be as good as say Bolt of TMs over course of 3 turns (and doesn't require ANY abuse of stat!). We don't also have EP drain, only Assimilate with max of -12 EP at Level 10, and you have problem with Atom which can drain more even at Level 1? Both are blockable yet you have Reroute AND Atom.
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
9/12/2012 13:58:59   
Bunshichi
Member

A support/multi build is notvery good anymore from what I've seen unless you get a big crit. I rarely get hit with crit by a support build in juggs and when I played 2 vs 2 recently my lvl 35 varium artner nearly got killed in 2 turns with 95hp, he did not land a crit with 129 support. Their are not many benefits to using a support build no more deflects, heals no long improve with it meaning you have t dump more skill points into a heal, and with a 4 turn heal cooldown giving limited hp I don't think you could survive a long fight.

If anything I find guys with lower support than me hitting crits.

< Message edited by Bunshichi -- 9/12/2012 14:04:42 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
9/12/2012 14:16:20   
Stonehawk
Member

Tech Mages steals energy for them, and ALSO damages opponent, that's good enough.
But maybe you're right, but we use more luck than tactics, because of many blockable skills.

And I'm not limited, I tried many builds, maybe it seems difficult to me because I'm a non-varium player, so I got lower stats. But it's really good for juggernaut, I have to admit.
But If we don't pick POISON or SS, what else do we do? I tried double strike, I keep getting blocked, I try support build, then I am easily killed because of low defense, lol.
Stun grenade, no comments. I can have 150 dex, it still hits nothing and rarely stuns (maybe I'm the unlucky guy)

Frenzy's delay, I'm not sure, but I think it increased, its skills are highly nerfed... But it's okay, I can still play lol, no need to eat me alive.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
9/14/2012 8:48:48   
Stonehawk
Member

Ok, I just tried some varium, and I must confess everything seems different. Looks like tactical's problem is a need of many extra stats, while some classes can do a good skills combo without that much stats.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
9/14/2012 11:48:12   
Mother1
Member

Stonehawk that was because of a bug that you would gain so much health back. A bug that for a short period of time made Merc OP. Heck I remember the first time I used the Azreal borg's ability on it to nerf the strength, and then he used Berzeker on my partner and gained back all the damage he inflicted to person. It was a nightmare, and It put me and a lot of players who use this bot at a big disadvantage.
Epic  Post #: 22
9/15/2012 7:57:00   
Kar77o7
Member

I think they should give back smoke and that is it. Giving back Maul would almost be like the Old TLM: Strength or 5 focus support. Replace Field Commander with Smoke and that is all.
Post #: 23
9/15/2012 8:22:36   
Mother1
Member

^ To gain back smoke you would need to lose reroute or mineral armor. With a debuff and two passives to give you back energy and defense the class was extremely OP. Plus TLM isn't underpowered by any means. It is a tank class and if worked correctly can be very effective in winning duels.
Epic  Post #: 24
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