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12/31/2012 11:43:55   
Xendran
Member

85% is simply way too high. These should be 65 or 70%. (Not 50, because of the way def/res work, you'd just end up with a garbage attack)
I like the idea, and i actually think it should be a new gun type altogether, with spreadfire being available as an alternative to Single fire or double fire.
Also, double-fire guns should deal less damage in exchange for having a lowered deflection rate.

This would offer 3 types of gun to add a bit more variety: Accurate, Powerful, Spreadfire.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 12/31/2012 11:44:15 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
12/31/2012 12:44:21   
Mother1
Member

Xendran when I first saw this weapon I thought it was OP myself as well, however the only classes that are truely OP with this weapon are strength abusers, and those with deadly aim. Plus remember in omega we will be losing a lot of stats so everything will be powered down including weapons and specials.

As for the new kind of weapon sounds cool as well.
Epic  Post #: 2
12/31/2012 12:47:10   
Ranloth
Banned


 But they still deal 170% damage either way, whether you abuse Strength or not. Difference is that it hits 2 enemies and can result in lower damage than focused Gun on one enemy. Rage makes it much more useful and quite deadly so, really, Rage should be revised first and if it's still too strong (Crits too probably), then change the Gun's damage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
12/31/2012 12:52:22   
Waxor9001
Member

Unsupported, that would make them underpowered.

It is a special skill after all.
Epic  Post #: 4
12/31/2012 13:00:38   
Drianx
Member

Spreadfire damage should not be further boosted by deadly aim. Then it would be balanced at 85%.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
12/31/2012 13:06:37   
ReinXI
Member

yeah... at 85% have you seen someone with like 50 str in 2v2 without deadlyaim? unless they rage or the opponent is malfed/ smoked the damage is going to be garbage... theres nothing wrong with these weapons. Honestly this is just like the whole massive strike special something that's deadly when used right and under certain circumstances yet balanced in the long run :/
Epic  Post #: 6
12/31/2012 13:09:16   
Mother1
Member

@ reinxi

I can agree with that. Also even as a mage with deadly aim and having 67 strength it doesn't do too much. The only ones really abusing it would be strength builds or strength BM to be more exact since they can get plenty of health back thanks to bloodlust.
Epic  Post #: 7
12/31/2012 13:34:13   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


 not supported

I does do good dmg when you have DA and alot of str, but it isnt OP.
I actually dont even use it in a juggernaut just because it is too bad to finish one of and hit the other one.
And like you fight a BH and a TM or TLM i steal the energy of the TM or TLM so they cant do anything, and then if i have Spreadfire they regain energy and im screwed.

So this gun has its upsides and downsides, and for that reason leave it like it is since its not OP.
Epic  Post #: 8
12/31/2012 14:05:18   
King Helios
Member

The stat placement (low dex/tech, lots of support), makes it not OP.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
1/1/2013 11:48:55   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Not supported, even in some cases for 2v2 it can actually be a limitation! If you want to kill someone with your gun + deadly aim bonus damage, you can't because of the 85% chance bonus, which can really be annoying in jugg and against tanks when your gun is the only unblockable skill left. Also, using dage's gun against 2 tanks can actually deal less damage overall than using it on a single person sometime. Strength/support abusing with dage's guns also are less effective, because you have to trade your HP/defensive points into strength/support, making you an easy kill target in 2v2.
Epic  Post #: 10
1/2/2013 2:52:23   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 Lmfao go inside the garbage. I can say * dage guns with very high str on rage are OP in 2vs2 battles *
But still the change is not 100%
Alot of BMs Are using that because it stack with the Deadly aim my friend, deadly aim.
Agreed Exploding thats why a person lost to me.

I had a partner which had 8 hp
I had 12 hp

Enemy had 30 and... used the dage gun and my partner had left 2 hp and i had left 1 hp if he finished the first one * without using the dage gun * the enemy would of won. But we finished him cause of that mistake.

So i agree with the penguin ^^
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
1/2/2013 11:16:18   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Another thing to also note is that it's typically a better strategy to focus all the damage on a single person to minimize the damage output of the opponent's team. Using dage's gun is great for recovering HP with blood lust, particularly on rage, but sometimes it's far more beneficial to do 35 damage to a single opponent rather than 23-25 damage on both.
Epic  Post #: 12
1/2/2013 17:35:14   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Honestly, I try at all costs to avoid using it in 2v2 or 2v1 fights, because of how little damage it does already
If you're against 2 BH's in 2v2, then the one you're not focusing attacks on will just Bloodlust their way back to full hp

Guns are fine, balanced
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
1/2/2013 21:44:09   
arthropleura
Member

I'm guessing you don't have one then...
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/3/2013 2:43:05   
Xendran
Member

quote:

I'm guessing you don't have one then...


Not relevant to the thread. My opinion would stand even if i did have one.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
1/3/2013 3:36:45   
arthropleura
Member

Nah, I doubt it, no one asks for their own things to be lowered for one,
And two you will fin that its not nearly as strong as you say, most only use it as a weak multi or life steal, me? Rage harvest xD
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
1/3/2013 3:40:15   
Xendran
Member

quote:

Nah, I doubt it, no one asks for their own things to be lowered for one,


I don't think you know who you're talking to. I want almost everythign i do in this game to be nerfed, because almost everything i do in this game is overpowered.
Breaking and exploiting game mechanics is what i do.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
1/3/2013 3:51:58   
arthropleura
Member

The BM is OP because all the other builds were nerfed dead, should I thank you for that? O_o
I'm not looking for a quarrel but since you posted an off topic statement I allowed mysel one too :D
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
1/3/2013 3:55:20   
Xendran
Member

I didn't post an off topic statement. You did, by pointing out that i do not own the dage guns.
Also, the only thing in this game that can really be attributed to me for being nerfed is field medic, and that's only because i unintentionally popularized a build that was extremely destructive to the game's environment due to the fact that i eventually managed to make a version of it that was flat out unkillable without luck elements. The 125HP str hunter was very close, with an average win ratio of 97%, and the 5 focus hunter around the same time with an average of 99.21. My finalized heal loop ended up with 99.67. No build should ever have win ratios like that.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 3:57:45 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
1/3/2013 4:01:45   
arthropleura
Member

You killed the support builds? Guess you really are a momentus figure in epicduel :/ sorry for the disrespect :D
I was referring to your last comment to me but I guess I overlooked my own... :3
Nevertheless I think they are fine as they are
Assuming someone does 12-15+35 dmg with dage, that's 50 on a 1v1
85% is 43(round)
Lots of Tlm tanks with what, 40 res with a high chance of deflect? Quite a lot of cybers too
Overall, unless you str spam way overboard they are not very powerful
There: on topic

Edit for your edit: funny how I don't even know you...

< Message edited by arthropleura -- 1/3/2013 4:03:00 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
1/3/2013 4:08:12   
Xendran
Member

The issue with these guns is mainly rage.

Think about rage, even with the very lackluster 15 +35 damage (you're much more likely to be seeing 20+35+10 on these guns), you will be hitting 23 (46 damage) on both targets as opposed to 30 on one.
With a tech mage that has a reasonable amount of strength, they are going to hit double 35s on a rage against a person with 40 of the correct defence.
That's 70 damage, as opposed to the 45 of a single target.

EDIT: You don't know me because from the looks of your character, you joined EpicDuel well well well after my prime.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 4:09:14 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 21
1/3/2013 4:13:46   
arthropleura
Member

Lackluster.. There's something new learnt :D
But you see, ANYTHING is powerful with rage
My rage multi deals 40-50 to two targets and more to one but no one complains about that too much
Anyways, a 15% is quite a big drop already, I'm practically the only one in the game that uses it withou losing too much, only seen a few others..

Edit: check breed yeti again, ur opinions are interesting, be back in a bit..

< Message edited by arthropleura -- 1/3/2013 4:16:23 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
1/3/2013 4:30:49   
Xendran
Member

Actually, i'm going to hold off on this until after omega. If skill cores are available on guns, this thread will be obsolete. If they are not, then my point will still stand, as this gun when used properly, is vastly superior to every other gun in the game.

EDIT:

quote:

You killed the support builds? Guess you really are a momentus figure in epicduel :/ sorry for the disrespect :D


No, i'm talking about high hp heal looping. High HP Heal looping actually used pretty minimal amounts of support. Actually, pretty minimal amounts of every stat. 44 str, enough def to have 26, however much res, 44-50ish supp depending on gear, and rest of the points into HP. We're tlaking about builds with 160-190hp before stat enhancements, bots, and guns/auxes with high stat numbers were in game, before the founder armor buff and when the level cap was 30.

So we're looking at a build that has nearly 200 hp, but with an average of 65 fewer stat points.



< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/3/2013 4:55:36 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 23
1/3/2013 5:09:12   
Xendran
Member

EDIT: Didn't mean to post this second one. Can an AK delete?
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 24
1/3/2013 5:50:09   
Mother1
Member

@ xendran

So you issue is truly with classes that can regain health with this weapon which are Merc (if using BC at a high level) BH and BM. But at the same time this would only work well with strength builds anyways for the soul purpose that even with rage if you don't have high strength you aren't going to get much out of it even with rage. Plus with omega coming we aren't going to have the same amount of stats like now.

less stats = less points to abuse

Less points to abuse = less damage output
Epic  Post #: 25
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