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fireball is weak compaired to plasma bolt

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3/18/2013 4:28:29   
nooooooooob
Member
 

 fireball needs to scale the same to plasma bolt

whit 144+30 strength fireball will do 79 damage on lvl 35
whit 143+30 technology plasmabolt will do like 91 damage on lvl 35 rabble needs to fix this
Post #: 1
3/18/2013 4:31:47   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because Fireball stacks with BloodLust and improves with Strength, which goes with the overall skill-tree of BMs. Only because they are the same skills but different type (Energy/Physical) doesn't mean they have to be equal. Likewise with Plasma Cannon and Bunker Buster; Cannon is minimally weaker since it stacks with BL.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
3/18/2013 4:36:24   
lolo666
Member

^^ Agreed..

It stacks with Bludlust which gives a VERY BIG AMOUNT and will become OP if it will be equal to the plasma..
If this will be implimented, Better yet change Bludlust to another passive on BM or I'd never agree to this
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/18/2013 4:43:31   
odsey
Member

I agree with trans, fireball stacks with bloodlust so its better this way. However if a buff is needed something needs to be done with bloodlust.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/18/2013 5:14:02   
Mother1
Member

Oh god no! The horror of the overpowered fireball. This will bring back the OP strength build that existed so long ago. Please let's not bring back the OP strength BM that used to exist.
Epic  Post #: 5
3/18/2013 5:24:55   
Remorse
Member

I think they should change the whole skill,


An attck improving with STR which doesn't include your primary damage is just silly.

Should be like support.

Epic  Post #: 6
3/18/2013 5:38:34   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

There is a good reason why they didn't do that. Other then massacre and fireball all strength based moves that improve with the primary are blockable. Image the abuse that would happen if they made it scale like bludgeon or berserker.

It was extremely devastating back before the staff nerfed it to improve with every 4 strength instead of 3. giving it the power of the primary weapon as well would as I said be a dangerous overpowering buff especially since as I said it isn't blockable.
Epic  Post #: 7
3/18/2013 7:13:11   
ReinVI
Member

On-topic try not remaking a tm as a bm~
caster tms work because they have multiple moves that scale based on raising tech all of these are un-blockable
so they work together to make a "caster"

try using fireball for what it is an un-blockable physical attack best used when! hm lets see in 2v2? if there is an
opponent who is smoked and therefor weak to physical this is a good skill to use because it guarantees that you hit
that damage since it can't be blocked or deflected. Plus your going to regain health from using it which a TM does
not do when they use plasma bolt. If in 1v1? use it on a rage if your in a clutch moment where your gun/side/bot are all
on CD and you don't want to risk being blocked.

Raw power isn't everything power is only 10% knowing when to use it is the other 90%
even in real life give a man a bazooka sure he has a bazooka but if he doesn't know how
to use it well then odds are he might wind up killing himself.

Off topic comment removed. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 3/18/2013 20:50:56 >
Epic  Post #: 8
3/18/2013 21:40:38   
Trifire
Member
 

 Well, I wouldn't say that it is weak. It has a 13-25% health regen to it. Maybe i would buff the scaling to 3.5 per scale point put I think that it is fine overall. What I am wondering is why the heck BMs have overload, plasma rain, and supercharge.
Post #: 9
3/18/2013 21:46:46   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because they are still Mages. Overload and Multi are fine, Ultimate doesn't work good for BMs (lifesteal doesn't work with BL). Devs will replace Ultimates and Multis at some point but that can take some time. Besides, they are the only Energy skills they have whilst TMs only have Energy ones (well, Tech does mean something .-.), so yeah. There's Plasma Cannon too for Tech builds.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
3/19/2013 0:00:01   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Actually, I think BM would become an amazingly interesting class if fireball was changed to improve with support rather than strength.

Anyways, fireball is in the slightest underpowered, I'd just suggest increasing base damage of all levels by a small amount like 2. I mean, it gives +8 damage at max level when compared to your max strike hit, and it costs 31 energy for the +8 damage and unblockable properties. Bludgeon at level 10 costs 3 energy less and does double the damage boost while retaining the same damage type as fireball. I always found it somewhat ridiculous that bludgeon's damage boost doubles fireballs, and costs less merely because it's blockable.
Epic  Post #: 11
3/19/2013 5:37:39   
Remorse
Member

^ Exactly,

Plus the massive nerf to fire ball was given during the time of enhancements,


Yes abuse of stats still occur but now they have a lot more weaknesses if they do so.



But It would be a lot cooler if it improved with support since currently support only helps defensively for them apart from auxiliary.

And perhaps switch energy shield for technician so they dont have 3 defensive skill that improve with support.
Epic  Post #: 12
3/19/2013 5:46:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 Aux + Defence Matrix + Reflex Boost + Intimidate & you wanna give them Fireball. With Support, they can already tank well enough and have Aux for damage + can get DA to boost it up a little. Not mentioning it stacks with BloodLust for more HP and HP = defence, technically. Now give them Fireball that will have higher chance to Crit like Aux, is unblockable, and stacks with BloodLust. Treat it as Merc's Multi but hits one enemy and is slightly stronger.

Support BMs can do well nowadays, even after the nerf to Auxes (but obviously no one tells you to abuse), therefore giving them Fireball is a big buff to them. Strength would be left with Bludgeon only, DA doesn't count because anyone can get the benefit. BMs are meant to be Physical/Melee version of TMs, specialising more in damage, not just tanking. Fireball may get buffed but you'd be looking at very small buff at most. It's already received one in form of lower EP cost by -2 at all levels. Still a buff since it takes less EP to cast it. Nor it has to be maxed for max. efficiency; look at TMs who may have Lvl 5-7 Bolt and Rage it instead. That's how you get good damage at low cost.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
3/19/2013 19:54:40   
Trifire
Member
 

 Well yeah, now we don't have enhancements any more so why shouldn't we buff the scaling to like 3 str per dmg or 3.5.
Post #: 14
3/19/2013 22:30:31   
nooooooooob
Member
 

 bludgeon only increase weapon damage not doubling the fireball and bludgeon will do more damage than that ball of fire
Post #: 15
3/19/2013 23:26:14   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Here's what I mean:

Bludgeon at max level will give let you hit with strike damage +50% of your primary's damage boost (which will be +35 or +36, it doesn't matter as both will give you +18 damage in the end).
Fireball, when I used it with strength equal to 19-23 strike damage (which is actually a fairly high amount of strength, and fireball will eventually gain damage faster than strike damage increases due to the slow scaling of strength), it only does +8 more strike damage from the max. For example, when I use strike, my max hit would be 23+35, or 58 damage. When I use fireball, it's damage would be 23+8+35, or 66. Eventually, fireball can easily give a humongous damage boost compared to strike, but that's only with massive strength builds which don't really work on BM.

Now, to compare the two:

Bludgeon:
At max level, will always give +18 strike damage
Does physical damage
Blockable
28 energy cost at max level

Fireball:
At max level, will give around +10 more strike damage
Does physical damage
Unblockable
31 energy cost

Fireball's average damage boost is 10, and bludgeon's is 18. Overall, bludgeon's pretty much an identical, blockable version of fireball that costs less energy and doubles the damage boost of fireball.

@Trans:
Uhh...no. Support BMs are terrible and still remain terrible, I have yet to see a support BM which can defeat 70% of its opponents who are the same level. They may seem powerful at first, but they lack firepower, and a single aux attack + a weakened deadly aim which requires a large amount of skill points doesn't get them that far against blood lust and healing tanks who can also deflect you.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 3/19/2013 23:28:31 >
Epic  Post #: 16
3/21/2013 3:31:21   
nooooooooob
Member
 

 scaling at 3.5 or 3 str per damage who support?
Post #: 17
3/21/2013 8:17:18   
Ranloth
Banned


 It was 1 damage per 3 Strength, and that's the reason it was nerfed. It'd be like Plasma Bolt and Fireball stacks with BL, that's why its power is weaker. If you overshot the buff, you'll create Str BMs again and blame Devs for making another class OP with their "crap fixes", or so people say. Try raging it and not necessarily maxed out, you can get good damage at lower EP cost.
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
3/21/2013 21:14:25   
nooooooooob
Member
 

 even plasma cannon is weaker than bunker buster that bloodlust needs to get replaced on bloodmages
Post #: 19
3/21/2013 21:23:49   
Ranloth
Banned


 It's weaker because it stacks with BL. Mercs don't have BL, nor Reroute to loop the skill.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
3/22/2013 7:21:36   
nooooooooob
Member
 

 remove bloodlust including bounty hunter just replace blood lust whit a passive armor skill or nerf it to 15% at max so devs can remove the nerfs or buff skills
Post #: 21
3/22/2013 7:27:29   
Ranloth
Banned


 Purpose of BMs is to have BloodLust. They are called "Blood" Mages for a reason. Passive Armor is themed at Mercs, witch CHs being different but it suits the theme. Why would Mages need a passive Armor when they are focused on dealing high damage and casting spells?
AQ Epic  Post #: 22
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