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Idea to improve CH Static Charge

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3/24/2013 2:37:50   
Thesoulweaver
Member

What if we remove the cooldown?
This might help improve it
MQ AQW  Post #: 1
3/25/2013 23:57:54   
Emperor_Blitz
Member

or if they could raise the amount of energy given back not as much as when cyber hunter was OP, but mabye 35 or 40%?
Epic  Post #: 2
3/26/2013 19:44:44   
Midnightsoul
Member

@thesoulweaver

That actually is another REALLY good idea. It makes the energy regen on par with reroute, but the cyber can only strike to get that energy. If they have to use another move, then they won't get energy back. This is actually a very clever idea.

Supported
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/26/2013 20:01:37   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

^

If your gonna do that,

why not just make it a passive that regens mana everytime you strike?
Post #: 4
3/26/2013 20:08:29   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because class cannot have 3 skills that are passive Armor, passive EP or HP regen and debuff. There's a rule that such combo cannot be made, which is the reason why TLMs have also lost Smoke (and justifies such).

As of to no cooldown SC - so should Frenzy then. They work in the same way but one for HP and other for EP. But Frenzy costs EP instead, whilst SC costs nothing.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
3/26/2013 20:11:04   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

^

It would be the exact same thing. Unless someone accidently clicks strike instead of static.
Post #: 6
3/26/2013 20:20:44   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yeah, because you block passives. Passive means all damage would be included; BL works on all damage, Reroute works on any damage taken in, etc.. But if you assume so then even more reasons as of to why that kind of SC is a no.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
3/26/2013 20:32:25   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

As I said

"That regens mana everytime you strike"

Strike as in the actual basic attack.

Block passives? Dude, if you strike gets blocked, bloodlust and reroute have no effect. Same would go for if they were active skills.

< Message edited by AQWorldsFarmer -- 3/26/2013 20:33:19 >
Post #: 8
3/26/2013 20:35:26   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because BL works with skills, Gun, Aux, Bots and cores. Reroute works on any incoming damage, unless you block a blockable attack. So you want SC as passive that works just with Strike? It's still a passive which won't happen unless you ditch PA (it'll stay) or Malf. No cooldown SC is also a no because it'd be free Energy every hit (rendering Strike useless) which no other class can get. Yes, it can be blocked but it doesn't have to be blocked either.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
3/26/2013 20:38:11   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

No cooldown SC is also a no because it'd be free Energy every hit (rendering Strike useless) which no other class can get. Yes, it can be blocked but it doesn't have to be blocked either.


Thats kinda the point I was stating.
I was just trying to wonder how making it a passive or active has any difference in its effects. Which it doesn't.
Post #: 10
3/27/2013 8:56:25   
Thesoulweaver
Member

My point is that, you'll have to sacrifice one turn to get that small amount of energy.

Eg.

You have 20 energy. you need 12 for Multi Shot, your main skill.
You have max SC. You hit for 30 Damage and get 9 energy. You still need 3 energy points, which you cant get for 2 more turns. You're only way to win the match - Play desperate, risky. In the 2 turns, the energy may get used for healing or something else. You are forced in a defense loop and Bam! you lose.

A lot happens in 2 turns.

In these situations, if SC can be used more often, You have a better chance of winning.
MQ AQW  Post #: 11
3/27/2013 9:06:28   
Ranloth
Banned


 Why do you need reliable EP regen though? BMs, Mercs and BHs don't have any form of EP regen (but a core) yet they make it out alive. Yes, they have BloodLust (and debuff) but you have passive Armor instead of passive EP regen. If you find yourself lacking 3 Energy, obviously do put some stats in Energy rather than hope to get lucky. Only because you have SC, it doesn't mean you shouldn't train Energy. It's a different case for those with Reroute but that one is a passive. Just like with passive Armor, you can forgoe some Defence/Resistance because you have the Armor to cover you.

It's not supposed to be a must in a skill tree. Skills cannot be musts to have or you lose. You shouldn't be forced to have a skill in your build just to win.. Passives work in such way but they will be revamped once Ashari is back, and AFAIK, she's currently in College.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
3/27/2013 9:20:01   
Thesoulweaver
Member

CHs need reliable EP regen because of the popular use of EP drainers. Unlike that of BH, a CH relies more on energy. Mercs are supposed to ( I know they aren't and deserve a nice buff) be pure Damage dealers and don't rely on EP. BM's have their good old 15% From that Dex buff, like BHs.

We're discussing active skills, not passive skills. I'm not interested in turning it passive. That won't be done anyways. No point discussing passives.

Who's Ashari?
MQ AQW  Post #: 13
3/27/2013 9:24:03   
Ranloth
Banned


 BHs, Mercs, and BMs do rely on Energy. How do they go about it? Train it. Each skill uses EP, you as a CH don't have to use Energy skills either.. EVERYONE can get their EP drained too. It doesn't need one. You have one. TLMs have Frenzy for HP and it isn't supposed to be a big boost either - like pre-nerf one.

We're discussing active skills not passive? No cooldown SC is ~passive since it's free Strike for bonus Energy. Change to no cooldown won't be done anyway. Why shouldn't Frenzy be done in the same way? It costs Energy at that! Oh wait, to not overpower the class. If it was made with no cooldowns then what would be the point of nerfing it in the past? Outcome would be the same.

Ashari is Head of Balance, or used to be since I'm not sure if Rabble is the Head now.
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
3/27/2013 10:16:42   
Thesoulweaver
Member

Well, Passives affect you every turn. Actives, even no cool downs or low cool downs can be considered as passives. And if that is really the case, if energy usage is mostly equal, why do mages have 2 energy gain skills.

I have no problem for having a 0 turn cool down for Frenzy. If The same happens for CH, TLM deserves it.
MQ AQW  Post #: 15
3/27/2013 10:29:30   
Ranloth
Banned


 Because Assimilation also acts like an EP draining skill, they didn't have one prior to Assimilation (which was given as 12th skill, along with Blood Shield and SA). Why don't BHs have that then? Or Mercs? Or BMs? Because they don't need it. If you badly need Energy, train it. SC was too powerful before because of its EP return and simple fact that CHs never had to train Energy. TMs may be the case with Assimilation but that may still get nerfed at some point.

quote:

I have no problem for having a 0 turn cool down for Frenzy.

No. Just no. That's how I can see you have little idea about balance. Frenzy was also nerfed in the past due to its high HP return, even after Smoke was taken away. It's not supposed to give you high HP return either, especially when coupled with Reroute (EP) and passive Armor.
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
3/27/2013 10:53:45   
ansh0
Member

Make it do 0 damage.
Epic  Post #: 17
3/27/2013 10:55:13   
Thesoulweaver
Member

OR maybe they could just replace SC. By your point of view, the skill is not required (Or so it seems).
MQ AQW  Post #: 18
3/27/2013 10:57:04   
sleddyboy3
Member

I don't think that no cooldown is a great idea, bring back the strength cybers. Maybe just lower it to 1 turn, instead..
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 19
3/27/2013 11:35:26   
Ranloth
Banned


 Put words in my mouth, eh? I meant that a skill shouldn't be required in every build to compete, so as TM, you could forgoe Reroute if you have something else in mind. It works at lower level, not so well at higher. Seems like you want infinite EP like before without the need of training your Energy. Do both and then say "EMP/Atom hurts!", because those who only have Generator to get EP back with don't find it as much of an issue and their skills also cost Energy.

Just give current SC a buff of 5% (up to 35% at max). It's always gonna be the 2 more EP gained back (or 1 if you hit VERY low). Small difference? The battle can go on for ages thus it'll stack up.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
3/27/2013 12:12:58   
aurther13th
Member

lowering the cooldown is somewhat supported. i have a CH an have been in that situation when i use massacre sometimes i fall 1 or 2 energy points short, so i trained it to ensure i could use it, because even if i left a 3 or 4 point gap if my attack is blocked then i cant use it still.

using it doesnt cost energy because your getting energy but with frenzy it should cost some energy, i dont use my whole bottom right skill tree, the 4 that make the square for tlm. which includes frenzy because i dont use a club, SC on the other hand doesnt require a weapon so any build can use it. regardless of weapon choice.

and also CH have the emp which can also limit opponents energy while being able to gain energy next turn.

< Message edited by aurther13th -- 3/27/2013 12:14:01 >
Epic  Post #: 21
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