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The game is falling apart by luck.

 
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4/2/2013 15:37:28   
Leprechaun
Member

When I read people DIS'es I see disappointments about lucky opponents... Every time I go to PvP I see "Block Block" even if they don't have high DEX. Are Dev's doing anything to stop this? I see more and more people complaining about luck... I see more and more times that my strategy is DESTROYED by insane luck. About 75% of the time opponent's luck help me loose. So... are you aware of this Dev's? Will you try to do something?

< Message edited by Leprechaun -- 4/2/2013 15:38:15 >
Post #: 1
4/2/2013 16:19:31   
8x
Member

Losing can be frustrating and people tend to over dramatize the amount of losses they get because of luck. 75% of your losses are caused by luck? Take that as a compliment to your build, it means that only 25% of your losses are gained because your build is not good enough. Would you prefer getting 75% of your losses because you didn't stand a chance against an enemy? :)

I agree that sometimes people have insane luck, but the passive cores can affect the critical, block and deflect chances greatly.
Epic  Post #: 2
4/2/2013 16:32:33   
xPl0opyx
Member

yeah they should really fix luck because its just crazy how much it effects battles i mean really
Epic  Post #: 3
4/2/2013 16:34:43   
Xx.Nemesis.xX
Member

You make a good point 8x. I agree with leprechaun's point that luck is rampant, but I also agree that skill might play a role in the losses. At lower levels, (the level leprechaun is right now is in the 20's I think?) there is room for creativity but at a certain point you see some high level that has a build that works a little too well... This is how massacre builds got nerfed, support builds(merc) got nerfed, strength blood mage, technology blood mage( fell to popular builds to begin with) and even they got a plasma cannon nerf. Not blaming this on build copying at all. The fact is that luck is slightly higher than the EpicDuel community expected when the devs announced Omega's Launch.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
4/2/2013 19:01:01   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Lol whenever I use my mech hairstyle, it becomes impossible to even do a 3 on my opponent
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/2/2013 21:31:02   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


I agree that luck is ridiculous, mainly because a single block is game-changing in a large majority of fights. I was fighting a level 32 CH with around 30 less dex than me and max shadow (he had delta armor, so no ninja reflexes). Because he blocked my max zerker, I lost. To be honest, I personally don't think people who lack experience and strategy (his record was terrible, and some decisions he made in the fight I would strongly disagree with) deserve a cheap win off of me like that.
Epic  Post #: 6
4/2/2013 21:33:46   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Evertime luck helps me, it betrays me and makes me lose 5 more duels DX

_____________________________

MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/2/2013 21:53:14   
Hun Kingq
Member

Its not luck it is lack of balance between the stats and lack of power between the skills of the classes. If you have good dex/tech players with either high support or lower support gets Critical damage on you especially the classes without hybrid armor.

Whether the Hunter has shadow arts on or not they seem to block more.

The Hybrid Armor classes has the unfair advantage over the non-hybrid armor classes due to they have up to 10 bonus points to put on defense or resistance.

So the questions is, that staff is afraid to answer is why nerf every offensive skill basically leaving them powerless and leaving that class with the only one skill that does any damage even at level 1, bludgeon. Why did they have to nerf Deadlly Aim instead of adjusting the percentage where Level 8 = +8, Level 9 = +9, and Level 10 = +10?

Assimilation needed to be improved but making it improve with a stat, that was a huge mistake, just would force them to nerf that skill which they already did but they will do it again when more tech mages start using it at max.

Instead of nerfing things how about making core skills to counter the most troublesome skills or equipment.
Epic  Post #: 8
4/3/2013 5:39:43   
Calogero
Member

Why is it that the discussion is about luck and then Hun comes with the BM is UP?

Anyway, Luck is out of hand in this game... Half the battle I know I should have won are lost
due to some random crit that doesn't make sense, or a block or a deflect...

I assumed that the game promoted strategy, but you can't strategize at all
when you get luck against you.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/3/2013 7:26:40   
Ranloth
Banned


quote:

The Hybrid Armor classes has the unfair advantage over the non-hybrid armor classes due to they have up to 10 bonus points to put on defense or resistance.

:V Get PA/MA and P/E Armor (opposite of the passive) and you have +10 in each already, just like HA + split stats. >.> Also BMs are balanced.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
4/3/2013 10:55:34   
Drianx
Member

quote:

The Hybrid Armor classes has the unfair advantage over the non-hybrid armor classes due to they have up to 10 bonus points to put on defense or resistance.


this advantage is minimal because
- classes with bloodlust recover about 5 HP every turn they attack, so it is somewhat like having +5 def/res.
- when you Rage attack someone with Hybrid or Mineral Armor, his def/res bonus is ignored, but when you Rage attack with Bloodlust, you gain more HP back because the attack is stronger - this is actually an advantage of Bloodlust classes vs passive armor classes.
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/3/2013 11:22:22   
theholyfighter
Member

Lol I had 54 support and found a lower lvl BH with base support. Guess what? He critted 3 times and blocked me once (he got lower dex too......). Wow.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
4/3/2013 14:00:26   
ReconnaisX
Member

Why does everyone complain about luck?
Even if your Strength/Dexterity/Technology/Support is significantly higher than your opponent's, they still have a chance to block/stun/crit and so on.
You guys do realize that they still have a chance of doing so, right? The way you're complaining makes it sound like if you have a higher number in a certain stat (Example: Dexterity), your opponent's chance of ______ (Example: blocking) should reduce to somewhere near zero.

quote:

Lol I had 54 support and found a lower lvl BH with base support. Guess what? He critted 3 times and blocked me once (he got lower dex too......). Wow.


quote:

I agree that luck is ridiculous, mainly because a single block is game-changing in a large majority of fights. I was fighting a level 32 CH with around 30 less dex than me and max shadow (he had delta armor, so no ninja reflexes). Because he blocked my max zerker, I lost. To be honest, I personally don't think people who lack experience and strategy (his record was terrible, and some decisions he made in the fight I would strongly disagree with) deserve a cheap win off of me like that.


Mostly everyone around here needs to understand that there is still a chance for everything to happen. You can calculate the exact chance of Player X using a battle mechanic in their favor and making you become angry and post about it to the forums.


I will use theholyfighter's post as an example here. I'm going to calculate the chance that the lower level BH critted him.
The BH has a base Support of 18. Taken from the ED Wiki:

[Formula] Chance to Critical Strike = 4 + (Support Advantage / 7)

The Support Advantage would be the BH's 18 support minus theholyfigher's 54 support. That brings the Supp Advantage to -36 (not really an advantage anymore).
-36 divided by 7 is -5.14285714.
The base number of four plus -5.14285714 is -1.14285714.
According to the wiki, however, the minimum chance to crit is 1%. But there is an unknown factor: theholyfighter, did you know if your opponent had the Mark of Azrael or any other similar Weapon Mastery cores?

Overall, though (assuming that the BH didn't have any special crit cores), either the BH got lucky (really lucky) or the Wiki's formula for Critical Strikes is outdated. It's a little hard to believe, too. But there you have it.


Since the last example was a bit hard for me to believe, I will use Exploding Penguin's post next.
In this case, Penguin only stated that his opponent had 30 less dex than him, but the opponent had max Shadow Arts. (If you don't know already, max Shadow Arts is an extra 10% chance to block.) Penguin's dexterity will be represented by the variable X and his opponent's dexterity represented by X-30.
The Block Chance formula:

[Formula] Block Chance = 8% + (Defender's Dexterity - Attacker's Dexterity) / 2.5

In this case, (Defender (that blocker)'s Dexterity - Attacker(Penguin)'s Dexterity) is represented by X-30-X. X minus X is equal to zero, so (Defender's Dexterity - Attacker's Dexterity) is negative thirty.
-30 divided by 2.5 is -12.
8 plus -12 is -4.
However, the minimum chance to block is 2%.
But wait- there's more! The opponent had Max Shadow Arts. That means that I have to add 10% to that 2%, bringing it to 12%, which is not a bad block chance.
But wait- there's (possibly) even more! Let's pretend that the opponent had the armor core Ninja Reflexes, which adds a 4% chance to block. Twelve plus four is sixteen.
So Penguin's opponent had either a 12% or 16% chance of blocking Penguin during the battle.


Originally, the main point of this post was going to be that your opponent still has a chance to do X action. And that's still true. However, I have come up with a better point during my writing of this post: There are variables that you do not know of- mainly, cores, and maybe a skill or two. So please take this into consideration before you post- think about how your opponent could have done what they did.

Thanks for reading this.

Off-topic: Exploding Penguin, from that same post, you said that you had a max Berzerker. When playing as a Mercenary (and as a BM before zerk was removed), I never put all of my points or centered my build around Berzerker- it's very risky to do so.

Merged similar Threads regarding luck. ~Lectrix

< Message edited by Lectrix -- 4/3/2013 15:19:32 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
4/3/2013 15:14:29   
SylvanElf
Member
 

When a random effect helps us, it's "meh" in most cases but when it results in us losing an otherwise winnable match, it's very annoying.

This leads me to conclude random effects in general create far more bad feeling than good.

How many threads get posted praising luck and random effects? Exactly.

Capture, cage, and deport the LuckMonkey. Permanently.
Post #: 14
4/3/2013 15:28:36   
Mother1
Member

@ sylvanelf

I can see it all now. we capture this "Luck monkey" and remove blocks, crits, deflections, and stuns from the game. Then we have all offensive builds destroying everything with strength abuse leading the pack.

Everyone is so quick to say "get rid of luck it is annoying" Without ever thinking of the consequences of doing so because in order to do that, as me and many others have said you would have to remove Blocks, crits, stuns, and deflections from the game forever and these factors are guess what? core game mechanics and you and I both know this.
Epic  Post #: 15
4/3/2013 15:36:46   
ansh0
Member

How about everything having a low, fixed luck chance.


Str increases your opponent's block chance, support increases your opponents crit chance.

Prevents abuse that way.
Epic  Post #: 16
4/3/2013 15:36:59   
Vagaran
Member

Either Mother Luck is on your side and you win OR she is on the opponents side and he/she wins. I hate luck right now, I get blocked way to much with people that only got around 20 Dex compared to mine 50 Dex + Reflex Boost. They should either do something to this ridiculous luck or re-work on that SA skill, that one combined with high dex and block skill core gives the opponent one ridiculous amount of luck.
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 17
4/3/2013 15:37:50   
SylvanElf
Member
 

@ mother1

I'd be fine with the removal of blocks, crits, stuns, and deflects. They have caused more grief than benefit in my opinion.
These elements never helped me much versus strength builds.
As far as strength leading the pack, it won't if there are reasonable and viable alternative strategies.

I prefer *defences* being the mechanic that balances incoming damage, rather than *avoidances* like blocks and deflects.
But that's just my opinion.
Post #: 18
4/3/2013 15:47:58   
ale6300
Member

@SylvanElf Without Luck, Str and Support Mercenary Everywhere, only the player that had the most dmg win, not the best skill or creativity

@vagaran Dont rework Shadow Art, need to completely change the skill, had 82 Dex+ 39 Dex from Reflex Boost+ 10% Block Chance with Shadow Arts+ 4% Block Chance from Ninja Reflexes, and Rarely Block, iam most unlucky man in the world or the skill is completely messed up.

< Message edited by ale6300 -- 4/3/2013 15:48:45 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
4/3/2013 15:49:59   
axell5
Member

well @vagaran123 thats what unblockable weps are for, aren't they?
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 20
4/3/2013 15:52:50   
Vagaran
Member

@axell
That is, what Aux and some Robot, specials that are unblockable.
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 21
4/3/2013 15:55:05   
SylvanElf
Member
 

@ale6300

But luck is the direct enemy to skill and creativity. The skill and creativity lies in the strategy of skills and builds, not in random effects.
Post #: 22
4/3/2013 15:55:43   
axell5
Member

well i think you can have max 4 unblockables...
EDIT: and by the time you use the other 3, the 1st one coolsdown

< Message edited by axell5 -- 4/3/2013 15:56:26 >
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 23
4/3/2013 16:18:17   
Mother1
Member

@ sylvanelf

No overpowered builds are the enemy of creativity not luck. Why do you think people use OP builds rather then creative ones? Because they want to win, and they would sooner use an OP build to win and/or compete rather then make their own and lose. If you don't believe me look at the start of omega. What were people using? Strength merc since it could quick kill the masses. The only thing that stopped this massive strength build was let me guess ah yes the high block chance. Now remove this and what do we have? Strength merc destroying all builds like strength Blood mage used to before they lost berzerker.

Not enough proof here is another example. Start of golden yeti tournament. Strength was nerfed but support was overly buffed and then that was when support abuse builds came which for that week destroyed the masses. Everyone had to be a support build and if they weren't they were at a disadvantage.

My point being is OP builds and everyone copying them is the true enemy of creativity since it forces everyone to play a certain way and not the way they want unless said person wants to lose not luck.
Epic  Post #: 24
4/3/2013 17:11:04   
SylvanElf
Member
 

@ mother1

I see what you mean, but luck factors *could* be dealt with if they wanted to, while it's my belief that OP builds will always exist no matter what the devs do, though I do support their efforts to balance things.

On the other hand, if ppl did what I do and stayed with their class rather than class changing every other week, it'd help. But that's their choice of course.
Post #: 25
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