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Luck factor discussion

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6/16/2013 10:13:31   
Xendran
Member

You've already gone through four RNG gates by the time the battle has started unless you meet certain requirements.
For your average player you have:

1. Level. Completely luck.
2. First Turn. This is just weighted luck and has a massive impact. This also should not be tied to a stat like support, or a stat at all.
3. Pay2win equipment. Faction weapons, azrael promo gear.
4. Build. It's luck whether or not you end up with a build designed to counter yours.

(If you are level 35 with P2W gear, you only have to go through two of these)

You've already gone through four luck events to even start the battle, extra ones in the battle just make it even worse.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 6/16/2013 10:14:19 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
6/16/2013 10:38:42   
Khalix
Member

Nah, in my opinion, luck is only annoying because of the "Impossibility" of an event.

After all, Epicduel player logic says that 1% = 0%, same goes for 30+% = 100%
Epic  Post #: 2
6/16/2013 10:44:28   
Mother1
Member

People find luck annoying because they can't control it what so ever. Everything else in a battle can be controlled however these uncontrollable factors in the game can completely turn the tide of a battle and that is just something the players don't like.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/16/2013 14:14:06   
Bloodpact
Member

True this, I have minimum support and I still go before people, It's hilarious.
Epic  Post #: 4
6/16/2013 14:32:27   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Why luck is so annoying? Cores, that is the simplest answer I can give you. I have 22 technology and you won't believe how many times I've deflected items because of that 6% blocking core. Also, it appears because of my high HP literally everyone spams the hell out of me with critical hits, I kid you not I've been critical hit'd more than 4 times in several 2v2 fights.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/16/2013 15:03:21   
ReinVI
Member

how does pay2win gear ( faction weapons are in game not fully pay2win .. ) factor into luck? there cores? no.. it's an unblockable attack pretty much not affected by luck just like meteor, and all those other damage cores the only luck factoring into them is crit chance.

Cores play a big part of it they should give you a base 6% extra they should make it "increase" what your current chance is by a buffed % say 10% like
Player A has 20% chance to block and he has a +10% to block core it should make that base chance 22% not 30% ( least that's how I think they should be... )

first turn? meh it's not a deciding factor really unless your fighting a bounty/tm with malf/ support build... other builds it's a slight advantage but not needed.

level.. it's the circle of life ( so to say ) the big beat the little until the little either adapt to the big ( level up / create counters ) or they just give up... as harsh as that sounds every game
that's pvp randomly chooses your opponent is like that.
Epic  Post #: 6
6/16/2013 19:32:37   
Lord Barrius
Member
 

 This thread's dancing dangerously close to being a rule-breaker on multiple levels.

A) It complains about "pay2win", which would make it a financial discussion.
B) It complaints without actually offering suggestions or solutions, which would make it a "whining" thread.

I'm going to spare it for now IF you can fix the original post to be more constructive and steer the discussion in a reasonable, thought-provoking direction. If you can't do that, let me know now.
Post #: 7
6/16/2013 19:44:16   
Bloodpact
Member

^

I havn't seen a p2win complaint yet , I have saw someone defending that P2WIn doesn't exist and someone stating it doesn't

then the same person is suggesting an alternative to counter luck, o_O just whaaaaaaaa?


Closest to a complain is everyone listing all the luck factors they see in the game. :/
Epic  Post #: 8
6/16/2013 20:06:39   
Mondez
Member

Luck is a tad higher here than in most games I play, but overall luck is an uncontrollable factor and even if it is fixed by variables and chances, it will always be there no matter what is what I've accepted in the course of Omega.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
6/16/2013 20:55:40   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 The reason why luck is annoying is because, as some people have already said, is uncontrollable and can be used by any player to their advantage/disadvantage depending on how they gamble on it. It's very frustrating to many experienced players who know the battle mechanics when they lose because they chose the 90%-win rate pate to victory but lost to that unfortunate 10%. I think a reason why luck is also annoying is because of the attitude of many players, where whenever an experienced player loses by sheer luck some lower level or less-experienced player acts quite rudely by commenting on how the opponent isn't good.
Epic  Post #: 10
6/16/2013 22:13:28   
toopygoo
Member

The reason luck is annoying, is because so often it makes the difference between a win or a loss: the block at just the right time, the crits at the right time etc.
A lot of these could be avoided by allowed 0's into the chances. also displaying these percents for the people to see instead of guessing and stuff would help a lot.

keeping people in the dark about chances ticks them off more when something they believe to be impossible happens against them.

Also, crits are no longer necessary.
their original purpose of destroying tanks (partially for jugg) is invalid because everyone has the same amount of stat points now, and why should quick kill builds get the additional advantage over tanks? it tips the scale in their favour unnecessarily. i know there are cores that affect this, but its causing more problems with luck than its workth when oyu think about it. especially since these cores increase the effect of the luck, something we are trying to get rid of.
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
6/16/2013 22:46:29   
Mother1
Member

@ toopygoo

I would agree with you on that last part if I wasn't running into more and more tanks build players in two vs two as well as being one of the many owners of a weapon that works to power up critical hits.

Every luck factor was designed to be a counter to certain builds.

Block and deflections are for offensive builds
Stuns work for all builds
crits as you said are for defensive builds.

Remove crits and while you will be nerf quick kill offensive builds (strength support ones as well as support builds) you will also buff tanks as well.

Plus as I said before with my other point people who brought the war weapon to power up crits will be ticked off since this change will be making their weapon useless. Also changing what it does will cause people who brought it to cry about false advertising because they paid for one thing only for it to be changed to another because of another change.
Epic  Post #: 12
6/16/2013 23:04:49   
toopygoo
Member

what if they switched it so instead of crits, you gained 10% higher damage on Rage: same generic effect, but its more certain, and also more powerful because crits are weaker now anyways?

and even tanks are easily defeated by quick kill builds:
as a merc with a raising ratio ( i won 25 1v1 tonight and lost 2) there are 2 types of people who i do poorly against: quick kill, smoke/malf builds. even though i have level 5 adrenaline, they rage 2 times before i rage once, so there is not reason you cant build up rage in time anyways.
i know we went over this the last time and i dont want to get into that argument (i tried to put myself in your shoes, and yeah i'd be pretty bummed out if i got lied to as well), however the pros and cons do balance out and give much the same effect as before, if not a little better.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
6/16/2013 23:19:14   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

@ ToopyGoo

Define "Quick Kill Builds" Because nearly everyone that does not have that Azreal Aux goes full tank. The only and I mean ONLY players that go strength/support are Azreal Aux abusers.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
6/16/2013 23:21:47   
Mother1
Member

@ Valkrieknight

I do see some builds that use this that don't have this promo, however most that I see without this are those low level players who are just trying to compete due to this balance against higher levels.

@ toopygoo

If they did remove crits it would be a indirect nerf to the builds that you are weak against from what you are saying in your point.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 6/16/2013 23:23:52 >
Epic  Post #: 15
6/16/2013 23:47:57   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

@ Mother1

I get tired of people keep talking as if Strength/Support builds need a power down because that couldn't be further from the truth. Every character I have has a strength build and more times than naught that's a disadvantage. In fact, the people I beat the easiest are other strength build users. It's so easy to simply drain peoples energy out and restore your own using a tank that in actuality if you're not using a debuffer via Bounty or Tech strength builds do more harm than good. Strength is easily the weakest stat.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
6/17/2013 5:43:57   
Fireball1257
Member

1. Level. Completely luck.

Level is hard worked for. Levels is not "luck." Not by chance did I get level 35...

2. First Turn. This is just weighted luck and has a massive impact. This also should not be tied to a stat like support, or a stat at all.

Isn't it like more Support? How is that luck...

3. Pay2win equipment. Faction weapons, azrael promo gear.

Someone has spent real money on the game... It is not "Luck"

4. Build. It's luck whether or not you end up with a build designed to counter yours.

Builds are created differently. I dont see how this is "Luck"

No Hate On Me Please.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
6/17/2013 6:47:27   
DanniiBoiixD
Member

^He meant luck by how it randomly matches you with those odds. Like it is lucky for a level 35 to fight a level 30, but is js unlucky for the 30. First turn is only influenced by support, it is not determined by support, so it is luck. It is unlucky for you to be matched against people with really powerful p2w equipment, same as a build that counters yours or an OP build. You feelin' me brah? Or do you need further explanation?
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
6/17/2013 10:14:53   
Trollok!!!
Member

Luck won't effect you that much if you have a good enough build, everything depends on what kind of build you have
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
6/17/2013 10:56:38   
Stabilis
Member

Luck becomes more prominent with less time involved in any battle. Negative luck can virtually remove a player's turn, as if it never happened. Positive luck like a critical hit or an unlikely stun surely could count as a bonus turn. This is a shaky structure as the turns are fewer, because they appear larger than they really are.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
6/17/2013 16:42:26   
toopygoo
Member

a lot of level 35's that are mages and bounties do not have tank builds.... but wuick kill: high suport, high strength fast rage, huge damage
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
6/17/2013 17:36:23   
DunkThatOreo
Member

I like how everyone thinks they know the answer when Xendran literally posted the reasons why luck is so dang annoying in this game in his first post.
Those are the reasons, stop saying "no this is why...No I think it's because..." Xendran is one of the oldest players here and a university student (I think) and should be listened to. Not
ignored even though he makes the most valid points in the forums.
Epic  Post #: 22
6/17/2013 17:56:37   
Khalix
Member

^ That does not mean he's completely right, however.

Some of us here are also old players back even before Beta.

If this was a discussion where Xendran is always right, then it isn't a discussion at all, but an imposition.
Epic  Post #: 23
6/17/2013 19:04:52   
Scyze
Member

One frustrating thing I found out was that people with a good win ratio (90%) tend to get luckiest the most. They do critical damages the most as well as deflect. Others with a low win rate barely manage to do a critical damage on me.

< Message edited by Scyze -- 6/17/2013 19:05:43 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
6/17/2013 20:31:14   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Luck is one thing...blatent battle engine manipulation is another. Way too many battles involve luck manipulation throughout the whole battle, not just one lucky hit or one lucky block.

Some battles are a series of crits, blocks and hits that are way beyond a simple luck stat. Most players can tolerate the lucky hit, or the lucky crit, or the lucky block once in awhile, but when they all come in the same match, how does that work exactly?

Is it just bad luck on my part that my first move malf is blocked about 1/2 the time, even when my stats are higher than the opponent? Does luck really work that way and so often, or is it some mysterious punishment for using the same first move too often? Idk...all I know is that I get alot of comments from other players on how many times I get blocked.
Post #: 25
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