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Passive skills change

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8/23/2013 11:40:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 We all know our beloved passives will turn into active skills sometime after the War is over. I'm sure they are slowly testing it whilst also focusing on the War, and making adjustments where needed. :)

I'm mostly for the change, but there's part of me which doesn't want it due to one reason - losing uniqueness. Yes, passives are a must in every build but this is the case for primary passives*, not secondary**.

What I want to suggest is a pretty old suggestion but could work with the upcoming change. I'm on about character traits. Each class has a primary passive, and some have even two (TLM)! In case of TLM, they'd have passive Armor as a trait because they are Mercenaries and original Mercenaries have Hybrid Armor. Basically, each class would have their primary passive as a trait that you could level up, but only until Level 5 so you still have a fair amount of skill points left for your build.
There would have to be some changes to the primary passives as well.
BloodLust currently has 19% at Lvl 5, so it could be bumped down to 15% so it won't be too strong nor weak, especially since it only requires 5 skill points & compensates for the loss of other passives. so it wouldn't be any harm to get it to 20%. Due to wonky rounding, 19% and 20% may be the same in most cases but not all.
Passive Armors would reduce damage by a certain %, maybe 10% less damage taken if attacked with Energy/Physical (PA/MA), and 6% to both (HA) - it's higher because it's split and less effective + HA has +1 more defence over PA/MA at the moment so it's fair.
Reroute has currently 23% at Lvl 5. If BL was to go down to 15%, it should be fine to bump down Reroute to 20% instead. It also prevents looping in certain situations. Like BL, it's fine to bump it up to 25%. It won't be abused since passives cap at Lvl 5 as opposed to Lvl 10.***

Not to mention, the character traits would start at Lvl 1 as soon as you register - so you've already got x passive at Lvl 1 when you're Level 1, and they don't have any requirements at all. So you can have Lvl 5 (max) passive at Level 5 if you choose to.

With this change, we could end up having:
  • Passives not being completely gone
  • Keeping some classes unique
  • Allowing some diversity, without necessarily having to max a passive (only up to 4 skill points & you start with it at Lvl 1!)****
  • Being able to balance the passives without having to affect a different class - unique skills
  • More skill points which allow us to try new builds (that are impossible now due to lack of the points)

    Tl;dr:

    We keep our primary passives as character traits. We start with the traits at Lvl 1. Secondary passives are turned into active skills. Chance for more diversity between builds****. Possibly easier to balance OP builds if they arise.

    * Hybrid/Mineral/Plasma Armor, BloodLust and Reroute
    ** Deadly Aim, Adrenaline and Shadow Arts
    *** Problem would be leaving Reroute as it is for TMs and having it work as active skill for TLMs instead.
    **** Only players can decide if they want to be unique or just copy someone else's build for wins.

    < Message edited by Trans -- 8/25/2013 8:36:14 >
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 1
    8/23/2013 11:51:23   
    MidnightAQ
    Member

    		Damn. Once this is applied, EpicDuel will be more balanced.
    Post #: 2
    8/23/2013 12:02:27   
    Dual Thrusters
    Member

    		I like this, now passives will be less vital to invest in.
    MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
    8/23/2013 12:03:14   
    Segawoman
    Member

    quote:

    More skill points which allow us to try new builds (that are impossible now due to lack of the points)


    Gladly agreed, but in specifically how much bonus skill points?

    quote:

    Secondary passives are turned into active skills


    e.g. Primary Mastery = (Active/40% chance to hit a critical)?

    quote:

    Passive Armors would reduce damage by a certain %, maybe 10% less damage taken if attacked with Energy/Physical (PA/MA), and 6% to both (HA) - it's higher because it's split and less effective + HA has +1 more defence over PA/MA at the moment so it's fair.


    Just to participate more further, I would recommend the Passive Armors being alike with Blood Shield as Hybrid Armor was significantly like that at the start, if you catch my drift. It would be most easier and much straightforward if they would intend to do that instead of using percentages as the necessity. Just to be more clear, I am trying to say that the Passive Armors should not be applied automatically at the start but manually by the player.

    quote:

    compensates for the loss of other passives.


    Specify.


    < Message edited by Segawoman -- 8/23/2013 12:04:32 >

    _____________________________

    My computer beat me on checkers, but I beat it at kickboxing!
    Epic  Post #: 4
    8/23/2013 12:11:39   
    Ranloth
    Banned
    quote:

    Gladly agreed, but in specifically how much bonus skill points?

    If you were looking at maxing a passive on current system, you're looking at 9-10 skill points invested. With traits, you're looking at merely 4 skill points needed to be invested in order to achieve max level. So you have 5-6 skill points more to customize your build.

    Secondary passives are skills, not cores. This thread is not about the cores. Cores remain unchanged, we were told that many times by Devs.

    Also, by compensation, I meant it still has a fair amount of % left but it's not as strong + cannot be empowered by other secondary passives (such as BL + DA). Yes, it's a nerf but since these would be turning into traits, you start with them at Level 1 (and passive at Lvl 1 too) and they have no requirements or whatsoever - wasn't freedom/diversity one of the mains for Omega? ;)

    Lastly, in regards to your passive Armors comment - if this was to be a trait and work as a %, it'd be just applied on incoming attacks. So if it deals 50 damage, your passive Armor will reduce it by 10% (5 damage) and then your Defence/Resistance will lower it down even further. Apologise if I misunderstood you there.

    < Message edited by Trans -- 8/23/2013 12:17:28 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 5
    8/24/2013 12:47:07   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 What if passives whern t a skill but just something that different classes had with no need to invest any point?
    Epic  Post #: 6
    8/24/2013 12:58:51   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		its a good idea , i got my passives at lvl 6 to get the best out of my points and this thing will make other players do so too , also it will remove passive builds from game like somone maxing his passives and going with heal and other offensive skill and playing with his weapons , it will also limit the amount of power somone can get out of passives.

    also removing deadly aim and shadow arts and adrenaline from game is a good step forward.

    i support this.

    < Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/24/2013 13:04:30 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 7
    8/24/2013 13:05:53   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 I mean that passives could not be a skill, for example if you were a bounty hunter you would have your passive bloodlust that gives x% dmg to hp, that can t be incrased with points, it would be the same for evry bounty hunter.
    Epic  Post #: 8
    8/24/2013 13:10:57   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 (1) Primary passives for each class would be turned into "character traits". (2) These would not be bound by the skill tree and you start with them at Lvl 1. (3) You could level them up until they are Lvl 5. (4) They have no requirements or whatsoever but the power was bumped down a little.

    So classes would have these as character traits:
    Merc: Hybrid Armor -- TM: Reroute -- BH: BloodLust -- TLM: Mineral Armor -- BM: BloodLust -- CH: Plasma Armor

    Other passives, aka, secondary passives, would be turned into active skills as per the change. I've covered TLM's point in regards to having two primary passives in the first post.

    It's just a concept here. Perhaps we could have primary passives turn into "character traits" and they'd get stronger as we level up (as kosmo has mentioned), so we don't have to train them at all. On the other hand, that could give too much of an advantage when fighting lower level player - not only they deal less damage, their passive would be weaker too. Also, as you've mentioned, DD, they'd have lower power due to Lvl 5 cap on the skill & slightly brought down (to compensate for no requirements + not bound to the skill tree*) so this could prevent abuse.

    * Passives would remain where they are on the skill tree but you would not need to have the previous skill in line - for example, you need Bludgeon to get to Reroute (TM). After the change, you would not need to have Bludgeon in order to train Reroute.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 9
    8/24/2013 13:52:47   
    Mother1
    Member

    		I remember hearing about this from another user months ago (can't remember his forum name) where passives were turned into traits, and in all honestly I believe it would be a much better idea then to turn them into actives. they won't be a must have in every build since they will come automatically for each class they are in.

    However the only issue that could come with this is not with the passives themselves but the holes that will need to be filled if this were to be done.
    Epic  Post #: 10
    8/24/2013 13:57:39   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		I have been thinking ..... i found that bloodlust isn't good for bountys , althought we do have smoke and masacre and other things that can increase damage but on the other hand its not what bounty is made for ....
    I would like to see some creativity on the bounty part , maybe a new passive that does something related to enemy overwhelming , the way bounty works is to criple enemy with emp and poison and smoke and just tare him apart with masacre it just doesn't seem a good idea for bountys to have bloodlust , some creativity is wanted here but i guess it could be done , we need something new.

    < Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/24/2013 14:01:02 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 11
    8/24/2013 13:59:33   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Would the user's name be Depressed Void? I recall him suggesting it quite a while back.

    But yeah, this is what I'm trying to suggest here in terms of primary passives, whilst secondary would be turned into active skills. It's either we make them into traits and they have a fixed percentage - or slowly scale up every few levels or so - or incorporate the idea of leveling the traits, without giving them level scaling.

    Yes, the holes could be difficult to fill in. Not only that, if they were to be turned into non-levelable traits, we'd have much more skills points available. Add onto the hole in a skill tree and potential to abuse - which is one of the reasons why I went for levelable traits.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 12
    8/25/2013 1:44:55   
    goldslayer1
    Member

    		@trans
    nerfing the passive to lower %s would be a "stepback" to what they did.
    they had buffed bloodlust because it helped "balance" their respective classes better.


    Post edited to remove unnecessary content ~M4B

    < Message edited by Melissa4Bella -- 8/25/2013 12:19:24 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    8/25/2013 5:22:19   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		there is a difference between buffing a passive to be as strong as other and nerfing all passives at once.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 14
    8/25/2013 5:46:54   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		how can it be worse ? , this will elimenate passive fighters and make this game a strategy game since you will have 30 points to put into the skills rather than the old 15 do you have any idea how builds will become now , old dumped skills like poison will have more points to be used also this will remove passive abuse and remove unbalanced skills which are adrenaline and deadly aim and shadow arts.
    please explain your point.

    edit: its like explaining why 90% of bloodmages use the same build of maxing both passives and spreading the rest between heal and bludgeon and intimidation.
    the game will be more exciting now you will see ppl using more of plasma cannon and super charge and more strategy.

    edit: this is not double post , a post on top of this has been deleted.

    < Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/25/2013 16:47:16 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 15
    8/25/2013 6:00:41   
    goldslayer1
    Member

    quote:

    i really want people to think how useless this will be.

    just think of this scenario, Focus BH vs str/support mage

    1st turn: mage uses malfunction (mage will most likely have higher support thus higher 1st turn chance)
    2nd turn: BH uses bloodlust
    3rd turn: mage uses azrael gun to force a strike
    5th turn: mage uses aux for the kill

    do you see what i mean? this only gets worse for classes with multiple passive (real passives, not SA)

    this was posted (by me) in another similar thread regarding the passive skills change.

    do you see what i mean? is this all you want to see? battles where you're forced between having a turn or losing the match?

    all you're gonna see with this change is players who max out their offensive potency instead.

    why? its simple, the game is simply offensive driven right now.
    battles barely last 4-6 turns because everyone using offensive builds, and you want to take out more turns on offense by using passive?
    aint nobody got time for that. all you'd be doing is putting yourself at a turn disadvantage by using passives, ESPECIALLY if you're already second.

    NOTE: the build for the above scenario does not use reroute. it is an often used str/support mage now in omega.
    it would only make things worse by forcing everyone else to activate their passives when some builds, such as this one, can already kill in 3 turns without using their passive.

    < Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/25/2013 6:15:39 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    8/25/2013 6:26:31   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		traits are passive you won't have to activate bloodlust it will just have only 5 lvls and weaker effect along with other passives.

    none mentioned anything about activating passives.

    < Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/25/2013 6:29:04 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 17
    8/25/2013 6:30:08   
    goldslayer1
    Member

    		@darkdevil
    i mean the passive change to actives.
    i haven't fully read what trans wrote, however the devs have never "undone" or taken back a change after they done. so its highly unlike they do this because it requires nerfing bloodlust after they had buffed it.

    < Message edited by TankMage -- 8/25/2013 11:20:37 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 18
    8/25/2013 6:37:32   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		well , if you are to nerf all passives or remove them all it will be fair.
    other thing about tm it doesn't belong here but you should make another thread to get oppinions about how balanced is str/sup tm.

    nerfing and buffing is like one skill being power 7 while others at power of 10 so you buff it to be power 10 then you realise 10 is too powerfull so you nerf all to about 4 when comparing power on scale of 1 to 10.

    < Message edited by DarkDevil -- 8/25/2013 6:39:34 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 19
    8/25/2013 12:30:23   
    Melissa4Bella
    AmeSylph


    		 Baiting others and trolling stops now. If anybody has a problem following those simple instructions they can stay out of the thread, completely. Period.
    AQ DF  Post #: 20
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