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Observations from an absent player.

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8/28/2013 13:06:40   
Liz Vicious
Member
 

 From being a regular Beta participant, I would say I probably log in every 5-6 months just to see what's going on.
A majority of things have changed. Although I understand the game dynamics so could explore this content, I could imagine a new player might be confused. When creating new characters now, are there tips and instructions? Such things didn't exist before. If not, there is nothing on the main page which would help. 'But, you can go to forums Liz, or the wiki' Etc, you might say. The thing is, if i was a new player I don't see why i would have to search the internet to find out how to play a game, I wouldn't bother. Or just get frustrated via trial-error and death.

Opponents in single battle only chat to insult because their losing etc (nothing has changed there then)
Opponents and team mates in team battles appear to just sod off now if their/we are losing.

Played about 10 games got bored and logged out.

That is all. Discuss.

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention. As any form of 'skill' Is still absent, it's a case of pressing the hit button like an old Atari game or a Tekken arcade machine. Which was kind of fun back then, seeing how long your money would last. As for now, whilst sitting at home...That explains why i got bored and logged out.

Posts merge. Please don't double post. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 8/28/2013 14:16:58 >
Post #: 1
8/28/2013 13:58:20   
martinsen5
Member

quote:

As any form of 'skill' Is still absent, it's a case of pressing the hit button


...Yes but that's called turn-based gameplay? Tons of game have it, it doesn't mean there is no skill involved. Big part of the game is making your own build and figuring out how to counter other builds, a lot of people may not find this entertaining but hey you can always go play something else.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
8/28/2013 17:08:19   
Predator9657
Member

quote:

Big part of the game is making your own build


Or, for the masses, find an overused build to copy.

< Message edited by Predator9657 -- 8/28/2013 17:09:07 >
Epic  Post #: 3
8/28/2013 19:42:46   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Have to agree with you Liz... Some days 10 battles are all I can take.

Note: something changed in the short update of 8/28. For a week or two things were much better concerning
battle fails...at least for me. After this small update, my first 3 battles failed, then ran OK for awhile, then 2
more fails. Just finished 5 2v2 matches in a row where I lost my partner, due to either battle fail or they left.
5 forced (and really bad) losses in a row is what makes this game maddening and impossible to enjoy for those
of us who remember better times. If these battle fails are a necessary evil to make better 2v2 matchups, or
improve the war, or add graphics, then tell us what you are doing and why it is happening.

Epicduel has no transparency, especially when it comes to these "small adjustments". Constant battles failing
to start makes for horrible 2v2 play and just makes everyone want to log off...

Please review what might be causing this and correct it.

Post #: 4
8/28/2013 19:46:32   
Liz Vicious
Member
 

 Surely I don't really need to explain my comment martinsen5? I think my veiled sarcasm must go over some peoples heads...What i meant was this: There was a time when you had to consider your next move. This was because people had a huge variety of builds which you had to respond to with the appropriate move and or weapon during your next turn. Now, as has been discussed to death on here, this no longer applies. So like game's of old you might as well just continuously press the 'fire' button Until you or your opponent wins.

One other observation why I'm here. Cores.

Vendors now selling additional cores, great i thought I'll buy a couple of them and test them out. Only to discover that i can't remove existing cores to do this. Making them redundant unless i buy a new weapon. I thought this might inject some variety, if i could augment my weapons in different ways. Now correct me if I'm wrong and please do but, there Isn't a way of removing a core from an existing weapon right? It's imbedded so to speak. And there isn't any obvious information to explain these rather critical facts me thinks. Again, if that info is readily available and i missed it some how then do tell.

< Message edited by Liz Vicious -- 8/28/2013 20:11:34 >
Post #: 5
8/28/2013 20:36:59   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Cores can be replaced, but you end up losing the original core from the weapon/armor. This does not make
sense to me since when the core is purchased as an inventory item, you purchase an unlimited use version, but
it does not go back into your inventory if you switch it out with a new one, etc...

Replaced unlimited use cores should go back into inventory for use at another time or on another weapon/armor.
I was really surprised when I changed my armor core and it didn't show up in my core inventory. Yet another
credit drain scheme apparently...
Post #: 6
8/28/2013 21:20:52   
Lycan.
Member

Some cores are ruining the game, i feel like every class can now have a free EMP.
Epic  Post #: 7
8/28/2013 21:56:52   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Some cores are ruining the game, i feel like every class can now have a free EMP.


Agreed. Frost destroyer/Frost slayer were pretty much made a common item like many of the other previous promos with special cores because of cores that were released with really no unique attributes to them. IMO cores shouldn't be released if all they're going to do is end up devaluing promos and giving every class band-aids to their flaws (BM without its EP removal, for example, now has multiple cores which they can use to remove EP).

And I don't want to sound rude, but like the other similar threads that were swarming the forums, I find little purpose in the existence of this thread. From what I can see, it exists to inform the developers of something that many others have told them, and to offer up everyone's opinions which have already been expressed numerous amounts of times due to the similar previous threads.

I understand that since you don't get on much anymore that you wouldn't know of this recent swarm of threads saying similar things, so I'm definitely not accusing you or criticizing you, I'm merely stating my speculations on this entire affair related to this and similar threads.
Epic  Post #: 8
8/28/2013 22:04:11   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Is the only pre-omega promo that is still completely unique Platinum's Pride?
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
8/28/2013 22:58:59   
Liz Vicious
Member
 

 @ Exploding Penguin. I like you. A sound, polite and reasonable response. Why can't we all be like this? :) Really, it was more of an open question, gleamed from my recent game play. I really didn't want to open this up to 'Core' opinions...I wasn't aware you could remove existing cores but, Raistlin informs me you can so, I'll have to work that out. And I was commenting on the lack of instruction to do this. And He also informs me that you lose the original core. Something else i wasn't aware of. So, it's all good advice and a learning curve for me, so to speak.

I am interested to know how much info is available to new players as a guide though. Can anyone give me feedback? And is their other in game info I'm missing here? For people like myself.

Visually, the game appears to be looking great now. Form what I've seen.
Post #: 10
8/29/2013 0:18:14   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 Despite the multiple thread topic, is there really any more important issue than the basic battle function of
this game? There was a clear decision made to avoid balance modifications a long time ago and focus on other
in-game developments. It was thoughtful to close the varium/non-varium gap, come up with a totally new
enhancement system, totally revamp the flag capture points, encourage faction development and make all
those battle engine adjustments to even out the playing field. I have no doubt this was a huge effort and took
an enormous amount of time.

IMO most would be welcome additions to the game if the basic battle function between players remained
reasonable. Somewhere along the line it was decided that adding unexpected blocks, crits and deflects to the
battle engine program would add excitement to the battles and help further reduce the gap. This strategy
might have worked if they did not force the issue and make it wildly unrealistic. There is no way a 3-10%
chance of any of these potentially game-changing events could happen as often as they do. Now that all
players can essentially make the same builds, varium or not, why is it even necessary to keep manipulating
the battles to such an extreme? There are other ways to discourage strength builds.

The proof is in the pudding...if you could go back 2 years and change the decisions to avoid balance or put
the emphasis on gaining new, but less supportive players....would you? Would the game be any healthier today?

I, for one, would like to see players like Liz come back and stay because there is a reason to...diversity, choice,
and balance. When 6 out of 10 2v2 battles don't make any sense, it's easy to go do something else...
Post #: 11
8/29/2013 0:31:36   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Liz Vicious:

With the new missions added (the 20 or so), new players area actually given lots of guidance! They're taught how to fight players, how to challenge them, how to purchase weapons, etc... All they need now is a mission to tell them how to retrain.

The core thing has been a problem since the start. The developers are actually working on this, the first adjustment they made was to convert the core system to be more inventory-based. If you see my character page I have some of these cores in my inventory too (the Bacon Breath x 25 core). This is only the first step in making cores replacable, removable, and just more convenient to handle without losing spent credits/varium.

The game itself is actually quite well structured; the staff try to listen to most of the reasonable things the players are stating, and the battle mechanics are pretty well set into place. They're solid, dependable to a degree, and there's a fairness between credit and varium players. However, the player base pretty much ruins the game because naturally people are lazy and just go for the easy wins build with a decently good ratio. All of the people using the same build makes PvP quite bland and boring.

quote:

Is the only pre-omega promo that is still completely unique Platinum's Pride?


No, there's quite a few promos. Here's some i can list off the top of my head:

Gamma Bot: Not really unique, per say, but it has solid base damage and dependable attacks of both damage types.
Platinum's Pride: Obviously unique and really can' be duplicated for a good reason
Botanical Borg: Yup, thorns is actually still unique...so far
Infernal Interdictor: While it is a passive and it was pretty drastically nerfed, it's still unique and in its own class.
Pyro Fly: Concussive shot kind of copies this, but not really. Pyro fly is completely random, not one of the top 3 skills, and it's used with a bot instead of an aux.

I can assure you that there's more unique promos.
Epic  Post #: 12
8/29/2013 0:34:11   
Mother1
Member

@ archlord

I have said this before and I will say it again. Winning > diversity. Do you seriously think the masses will ever stop copy building even if the game had the perfect imbalance or balance? I don't think so. People would just wait for someone to find something that gives a decent win rate, and then copy it like it has always been. Most players will sooner use a build that can give them wins even if it is overused rather then search for a creative build at the cost of losing to a popular overused one.

It has been like this for as long as I can been here, and many of the older player i spoke with have told me the same thing.

I mean why do you think people used strength Tactical merc when it had smoke, and tank cyber hunter before static was nerfed? Because they were the builds/class that was getting the wins. Why do you think the masses went to strength blood mage after Tactical merc and Cyber hunter were nerfed? Because it was build proven to get wins.

It all dawns around winning which most people will do for fun. There are very few who play for build creativity, and most of those people are punished by those overused popular builds. Until something is done about build copying (which we know won't happen) there will be no diversity and we will be stuck with the same builds running around.

@ Exploding

You mean the bio borg. That is the bot that has thorns not the botantical borg which is the multi bot

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/29/2013 0:39:12 >
Epic  Post #: 13
8/29/2013 0:38:48   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

It all dawns around winning which most people will do for fun.


I think the entire source of the build copy problem is the mentality that:

Fun = winning

Whereas it should and could be something like this:

winning = fun

This may be a hard concept to grasp (confusingly worded for some, I guess) but the main point is that people think the only way to have fun is to win, whereas winning is not the only way to have fun. Sometimes I have fun using the junkiest builds that are literally only meant to test the limits on some skills like EMP, cheap shot, supercharge, massacre, etc...

People are too obsessed with winning, simply put. This is why we need more horde-survival games (those games with wave after wave of enemies which you must kill without dying, and you cannot win. Like zombies or something from some unnamed games) that people like, as I hypothesize this will actually reduce the mentality of fun=winning.
Epic  Post #: 14
8/29/2013 2:05:39   
Midnightsoul
Member

^You know, it just occurred to me that if ED put in some kind of mini-games, it could bring back some fun. There could be high scores and stuff which can bring back the fun.


@on topic

Liz, sorry, but there really isn't a good tutorial right now. It's good you're from Beta since you can adapt easily to game changes since you understand more about the game. I have to say the only way is Youtube I guess...

Oh btw, promos made after Delta including Celtic Cleaver will return every year in a shop so it's pretty much a waste of money
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
8/29/2013 11:49:52   
Lycan.
Member

They should bring arcade back for 50/100 credits per battle.
Epic  Post #: 16
8/29/2013 12:37:51   
Bionic Bear
Helpful!


 True, they should, but they'd need to bring tokens back also, unless they put a different price to use the arcade.
Post #: 17
8/29/2013 12:52:37   
Midnightsoul
Member

They could also do some kind of like mini games.

Ex.

Target Practice
Objective: Try to hit the center of the target and get the most point out of your opponents.
Reward: about 100 creds?

Players will fire their gun, aux, and then throw their primary weapon. The way the game will function is kind of how a catapult game works.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
8/29/2013 19:13:18   
GearzHeadz
Member

They have the arcade, yet they never use it... I remember when there was the arcade to have a chance of winning a bike. Now THAT was fun.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
8/29/2013 19:17:07   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

They have the arcade, yet they never use it... I remember when there was the arcade to have a chance of winning a bike. Now THAT was fun.


Actually, yes, that was a lot of fun. The excitement of getting something you finally were working towards, and the anticipation of possibly getting the 10k jackpot or the hoverbike (which I actually got but foolishly sold in Gamma D:) really made PvP more enjoyable.
Epic  Post #: 20
8/29/2013 19:28:21   
Mother1
Member

I remember when they removed the arcade. At first what they did was an improvement since it was a free arcade since every match had the chance for an item drop. Sadly they forget to put back in the hoverbike.

If they put back in the prize drop and brought back the chance of getting the hoverbike that would really bring some fun back.
Epic  Post #: 21
8/29/2013 19:37:37   
Melissa4Bella
AmeSylph


 First of all, I'd like to congratulate all of you who have participated in this thread of actually discussing between each other in a mature and respectful manner.
Good job! If you can do it here, you can do it everywhere

However, since the main topic of the opening post is asking about ingame tutorials, it really doesn't have much of a discussional value to that.

What I would suggest is for anyone who is interested to go to the EpicDuel Suggestions forum in order to brainstorm solutions to the raised issues. Good luck!

Also, since the thread has bounced around so much and has veered away from the beginning topic, I'm going to go ahead and close it.
Thread locked!
AQ DF  Post #: 22
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