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11/9/2013 7:27:42   
Ranloth
Banned


 It will be easier to put it into one thread, suggestion wise, than having multiple threads for discussions and many disagreements. Treat this as a feedback and suggestion thread in one.

New actives, nine of them to be specific. Our passives are now gone and have been turned into active skills. Many see the creative aspect of it, whilst some believe passives were crucial in ED's gameplay. In a way, both are right and wrong at the same time - it's subjective.

It's a big change. Things are bound to be imbalanced because there's so much testing that can be done on a Dev server, and it will be different on our servers where hundreds or even thousands of players (total) can test it and give their feedback. So we play the crucial role in this change.
Instead of saying how bad it is, let's not allow the initial release ruin the first impression of the change. We did see the imbalance coming, and so did the Devs, but sometimes you must release something that isn't perfect and let others help you.

The skills which were changed are as follows: Mineral / Plasma / Hybrid Armors, Adrenaline Rush, Mark of Blood, Energy Parasite, Fire Scythe, Battery Backup, and Shadow Arts.

How this will go is, you can discuss any (or all) skills and how you'd possibly improve them. In other words, say what's wrong with it and how it could be improved in your opinion. You can support someone else's suggestion instead, but keep it civil. You're free to disagree with others but keep it civil. With such big change, all feedback will be considered so for the sake of ED, don't be bias or try and ruin it for someone else. We are shaping the balance of new actives.

Lastly, please don't bother posting if you're planning on saying "bring passives back, actives suck!" because it will not be happening and it doesn't belong here. Be constructive!

  • Armors
    • In my opinion, these should be reworked once again.
    • [1] Give it 5 turns of being active and cost should be 10 EP at Lvl 1 and goes by +1.5 per level, for up to 24 EP at Lvl 10. [2] Buff the %'s up by a little again. [3] Make it work off your total Dex/Tech, not including any debuffs - like they do now.

  • Adrenaline Rush
    • [1] Completely remove the Energy cost. [2] 50% of your Rage at Lvl 10 (nerf it from 61%). [3] Increase cooldown to 4-5 turns.

  • Mark of Blood
    • [1] Keep the %'s as they are if you and your ally are alive & higher %'s if you're on your own/1v1 (just like Multis but the same Energy cost).

  • Energy Parasite
    • This one is actually balanced, in my opinion. BMs have lost DA which has lowered their offense, so it seems alright so far. No changes required.

  • Fire Scythe
    • I've seen players use it, but not myself yet. No comment on it, just no issues so far.

  • Battery Backup
    • [1] Put it to +2 EP per skill point. [2] Slightly lower the base amount (by a very little). [3] Possibly increase cooldown from 4 turns to 5 turns - they also have Assimilation in-between which compensates for it, although TLMs may struggle instead. [4] Or just put Support requirement on Battery + Str on Assimilation (suggested by 8x) and maybe reduce base amount by a little with it.

  • Shadow Arts
    • Effect wise, it's alright.
    • [1] Give it a bit lower Energy cost. I understand it defends against all attacks, but BHs don't have an Energy return skill. [2] Change the EP scaling from +2 per skill point to +1 per skill point (11 EP at Lvl 1, 20 EP at Lvl 10).


    < Message edited by Trans -- 11/10/2013 8:58:22 >
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 1
    11/9/2013 7:58:18   
    Sensei Chan
    Member

    		Tech mages are very OP!
    The replacement of reroute is OP!
    It doesn't require anything and it's free!
    Epic  Post #: 2
    11/9/2013 8:12:43   
    Mother1
    Member

    		@ Sensei chan

    In all honestly it makes no sense to make a move that is suppose to give you back energy cost energy. Kind of counterproductive.

    However as I suggested in another thread how about nerfing it so it give you 30 energy at the max level. This way it is still good for the cooldown cost, and it isn't overpowering caster TM since that is the build that truly got a massive buff from this change.
    Epic  Post #: 3
    11/9/2013 8:31:38   
    Jekyll
    Member

    		If you ask me, TMs should lose one of Assimilate or Battery. Having 1 energy stealing skill and 2 regain skills is quite OP. Every 2-3 turns they can use either one, while other classes have to spend energy instead of regaining it.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
    11/9/2013 8:34:10   
    Siv HD
    Member
     

    		 Before actually doing my own feedback, I'll comment about your feedback.

    quote:

    Armors
    [1] Give it 5 turns of being active and cost should be 10 EP at Lvl 1 and goes by +1.5 per level, for up to 24 EP at Lvl 10. [2] Buff the %'s up by a little again. [3] Make it work off your total Dex/Tech, not including any debuffs - like they do now.


    I totally agree with this part. Not saying that I disagree about the rest and all, but this is the most striking one for me.

    quote:

    Adrenaline Rush
    [1] Completely remove the Energy cost. [2] 50% of your Rage at Lvl 10 (nerf it from 61%). [3] Increase cooldown to 4-5 turns.


    All are very well said! Gaining Rage while spending Energy seems pretty dull.

    quote:

    Battery Backup
    [1] Put it to +2 EP per skill point. [2] Slightly lower the base amount (by a very little). [3] Possibly increase cooldown from 4 turns to 5 turns - they also have Assimilation in-between which compensates for it, although TLMs may struggle instead.


    As for [1], Doesn't really bother me if it's approved or not. But the rest would really make a lot of balance changes. Just because TMs are having way more EP than they used to be w/ Reroute imo.

    quote:

    Shadow Arts
    [1] Give it a bit lower Energy cost. I understand it defends against all attacks, but BHs don't have an Energy return skill. [2] Change the EP scaling from +2 per skill point to +1 per skill point (11 EP at Lvl 1, 20 EP at Lvl 10).


    Just yes.
    Post #: 5
    11/9/2013 9:06:09   
    Sensei Chan
    Member

    		Tech Mage Caster get's 49 energy every 4 turns and in between that they probably get 10+ energy from assimilation
    Epic  Post #: 6
    11/9/2013 9:12:04   
    Jekyll
    Member

    		^Usually around 14-16. On top of that, you lose 14-16 energy too. Essentially this creates a difference of over 70 energy between a TM and non-TM in just 2 turns of Battery and Assimilate.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    11/9/2013 9:26:50   
    Mother1
    Member

    		@ Jekyll

    While I do see that caster TM got a massive buff due to this change, what would you suggest replacing either Assimilate or battery with? taking away a move without a proper replacement will hurt the class as a whole rather than balance it.

    For Assimilate I remember this being said before the chance but removing the energy gain part from it would be a good change. Battery gives more than enough energy back without having another way to get back energy.

    Or if that doesn't work revert Assimilate back to what it originally was before they buffed it. It would be weaker again, but as said before with battery there it would be more of a use to counter rather than for on demand energy when the class has something for it.

    Epic  Post #: 8
    11/9/2013 10:23:57   
    beaststyles
    Member
     

    		 Here are some of my suggestions:

    Active armours

    Even a medium lvl defence matrix or energy shield is much better than the new armours. It gives more defence. It doesn't decrease with malf or smoke. It costs much much less energy for a greater buff.

    Make it so its not such a waste of a turn. Maybe they can do 85% damage while switching the armours on.

    +

    Decrease the energy cost substantially to make it worth using (compare to energy shield and defence matrix).

    +

    Make it last longer

    Adrenalin

    I think adrenalin should work in the same was as Mark of blood i.e. "Mark of Adrenalin". Or else its a waste of a turn. In most cases it would be much better to strike (do damage) + gain little rage (little comparatively) at no cost instead of pay energy + skip a damage turn + gain rage. Lets not forget that loosing rage to chairman's fury after wasting so much energy is much worse than if it was through "Mark of Adrenalin".

    Beast.

    < Message edited by beaststyles -- 11/9/2013 10:27:25 >
    Post #: 9
    11/9/2013 10:48:56   
    romanu
    Member

    		turn passives into actives made even more inbalance then a simple nerf to passives would do. As soon as you nerf assimilate + batery combo something new will shine.


    first of all , they made high energy actives( SA, PA) and no energy actives like battery back up/energy parasite( TM even has 2 since assimilate is similar). I think for all classes 1 out of 2 ex-passives/new actives should be free of energy cost, all classes should have 1 out of 2 new actives that gives some kind of energy regen ( ch and bh are hit the most, since they add energy cost to everything).

    < Message edited by romanu -- 11/9/2013 10:50:06 >
    Post #: 10
    11/9/2013 10:56:34   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 ^ I could partially agree with one skill being free, but that's debatable. Some skills are "weak" (effect wise) and don't need or shouldn't have a cost, such as Adrenaline, whilst some could use a cheaper cost instead. I think it's more of an issue with BHs not having a skill to return Energy, whilst all the other classes do. CHs could use a mini buff to Static Charge to make up for the Energy costs instead.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 11
    11/9/2013 11:16:17   
    patrickand
    Member

    		I say that you shouldn't have really changed it as it really doesn't make much sense. I agree^^ that you should've just nerfed the passives
    Post #: 12
    11/9/2013 11:19:14   
    hijinks
    Member

    		From what I see so far, Mark Of blood has an extremely high energy cost to what it gives back to the user. I don't get a lot of hp back from the skill.
    DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    11/9/2013 11:58:30   
    CivilAE
    Member

    		Energy Pack on TM:
    quote:

    Energy pack is unanswered on Tech Mage and tech mage alone, that coupled with assimilation is just unbelievable.


    quote:

    The comparison: reroute was player reliant, and you could choose when to attack and do a certain amount of damage on the mage. Now they get the bonus whenever they please. They can also just spam unblock-able and potentially high damage dealing moves with little to no remorse because they get all their energy back for a heal the next turn, which is a huge benefit if they're running defense as most do.


    quote:

    EMP is the turn stall style counter but it's not 100% the best one since it has a cost. Battery may be on par with medic but it has no cost whatsoever, Medic on the other hand has the cost of a turn and energy. Although I only feel it's a problem on TM, who are also given assimilation an already unavoidable energy source. If it's going to be a field medic counterpart then might as well make it cost HP


    Adding a turn may also work since turns are a big deal.

    Armors:
    quote:


    From what I've seen the biggest problem is the fact that it takes a away a turn you could be using to attack.

    Maybe they could make it so you could shield and provide offense at the same time (Gun,Strike,Aux only). That way if they take the shield away the next turn, the field stays even on both sides.

    This is how debuffs work, with the chance to have the damage blocked. Of course I'm only referring to plasma/hybrid armors, that'd be pretty bad with technician


    Making last longer or decreasing EP cost may also do some good.

    Speculation: Static Charge may need a buff. First turn now needs to be reworked.

    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
    11/9/2013 12:14:31   
    odsey
    Member

    		The developers deserve a thumbs up. People want battle to last longer, they changed passive to active which brings more diversity Some people said to make hp scale more but they did a unique changes. I as a Cyber Hunter enjoy this new passive though my SA energy is too high(could be lowered a bit) and Plasma Armor energy is too high.

    TM new move, the battery something is quite too good. The solution that I could think of is to add energy cost but not too much.

    Good job developers! I thought that this update is not good but after I try it, it is pretty good Of course I need to get used to new skills If we keep doing a nice balance update, ED Old Glory may shine again.

    < Message edited by odsey -- 11/9/2013 21:14:35 >
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
    11/9/2013 12:24:51   
    CivilAE
    Member

    		@Odesy Actually it's not that bad of an idea, since mages get assimilation as well, and it makes up for the turn, eh maybe. Got to pay for your batteries right?

    But the problem is that it's a universal skill, I think a solution would be to rework the energy separate for each former of reroute.

    < Message edited by CivilAE -- 11/9/2013 12:37:44 >
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    11/9/2013 12:29:59   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Although, Assimilation doesn't work without opponent's Energy and if yours is gone, Battery wouldn't work either. It's better to scale down Battery (in terms of power) and perhaps additional turn of cooldown. I've proposed slower scaling which makes a difference of -7 EP less at maxed + reducing base would probably make it up to -10 EP less regained. With longer cooldown, looping would be less of an issue.

    Changing requirement too, from Tech to Strength perhaps, or Support. It doesn't go with tank builds anymore (Casters) and glass cannons have low defences anyway, so not as much of a threat - especially when they take a turn.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 17
    11/9/2013 12:51:40   
    CivilAE
    Member

    		I'd make the comparison to merc and how atom smasher is based on enemy energy pool as well, but that skill works on its own in conjunction to its class. I see that assimilation and battery pack working in unity would be a waste of a turn for the most part.

    Simplified, yes it would be better to just add a turn to battery pack, and reduce scaling by a bit. ( Although the turn seems to be the bigger one here).
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
    11/9/2013 21:13:51   
    odsey
    Member

    		@Civil and Trans Battery concept idea is actually good: Instant energy. What I could think of is to have a energy requirement. Also changing requirement like Trans said is also a good idea
    quote:


    Simplified, yes it would be better to just add a turn to battery pack, and reduce scaling by a bit. ( Although the turn seems to be the bigger one here).


    And this idea is also good.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    11/9/2013 21:51:34   
    DanniiBoiixD
    Member

    		Make it so that battery backup costs health. Then it will be more like the skill it replaced, which would be a more fair trade.
    The passive armor replacements, at that price of energy, should be a lot more powerful.
    Base energy should be increased back to what it was pre-nerf (basically adding 10 more points), or the nerf to stats should be decreased so that you can have put more points into energy without crippling yourself.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 20
    11/9/2013 22:08:36   
    ambien
    Member

    		well why do ppl keep ripping mages, when bms were on top ppl ripped them same as chs and mercs and tlm and bhs. why do this . it seems like u ppl cannot even be happy with any new skills or cores . wow l been playing since beta and this is the 1st time for over a year ppl rip the devs updates tear new skillz up and down same with cores why. learn to play with it or do not play real simple . people rip ed all day long it gets old. just play the game change to mage class if you think they are oped.

    the devs know when a new update happens they have to test play it for 1 or 2 weeks on line to see the out come they know if it is oped already but they have to see how other classes do vs it. get real if you do not know that by now then maybe you been sleeping while ed has been on for a few years.

    l did not like some of the updates said it once and left it alone, and guess what after the 2nd week they tryed something different or tryed to correct it by nerf on the skill or core. it seems to me by tearing the update it seems that some players know better then the devs of the game, l do not think so. give them a chance. just say we got problems with a skill or core explain it simple and nice and they fix it but do get mean about it. every suggestion that players have come up with l bet they know already about it they just needed game play time to see it work or not

    my thoughts on this war of words

    always the syfy
    .



    < Message edited by ambien -- 11/9/2013 22:14:36 >
    Post #: 21
    11/9/2013 22:18:39   
    CivilAE
    Member

    		^ You're right for the most part, but people are naturally going to complain when they're being active test subjects. Especially since the "Imbalance" or whatever impact their Win/Lose Ratio permanently or how much time/money they waste. The thoughts of a competitor, win first(fairly), have fun second. It'd be a wrong thought if this wasn't a PvP oriented game.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
    11/9/2013 23:01:43   
    Dual Thrusters
    Member

    		@DaniiBoii

    The Staff said they decreased the base energy so players could actually have to invest into it.
    MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
    11/9/2013 23:40:20   
    Mother1
    Member

    		@ Civilae

    So basicilly you are saying anything that someone can't handle or beat they want it toned down so they can beat it without trouble? Cause if that is the case then those people are reason why we have so few tools to work with in the game.

    Almost every single nerf I have seen in the game either came from someone or some group of players complaining about it being overpowered when said thing was either overused or possibly their natural bane build (meaning opponent's build is a counter to theirs) and they wanted it weakened so they could beat it. Heck I even remember some players in the past saying "That wasn't a problem back then but now that this has been nerfed now that needs to be nerfed" meaning some would sooner overlook something that is overpowered because it isn't a problem in favor of what is causing them to lose when that thing is mostly overused rather than overpowered.

    I am sorry but that isn't balance. It is just nerfing something that they are weak against only to put something else in it's place because that build counter was nerfed. It is because of those kind of complaints that we have imbalance and lack of tools to play with.

    I mean look at what happened when the staff didn't do updates until recent. Strength blood mage was running rampant at first, however since the staff didn't do anything the players had to make builds to counter this build and guess what? People did this and less strength Blood mages were running about since counter builds were made.

    Now that is how balance is suppose to work. Meaning when you find something overused you find a build to counter that overused build not cry to the staff about one overused build when people have proven that there are counters to this build.

    That is what annoys me about this game. Balance is at the whim of players who want to beat everything they run across when it isn't suppose to be this way. Cause if they could do this without anyone being able to counter them then that is what makes it overpowered.

    TL:DR The same players who play the game are the same ones who are destroying the game every time they cry to the staff about something that they think is OP when 9/10 it is either overused or they didn't try to find a counter to it.
    Epic  Post #: 24
    11/9/2013 23:41:03   
    Midnightsoul
    Member

    		I agree with your statements, but I might have a different way to change the skills. Otherwise, I like your ideas Trans.

    My thoughts on the changes
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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