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Removal of Passives

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12/13/2013 23:40:21   
Nexus...
Member

I get it. The classes were reliant on passives. Removing them altigether, however, not my favorite line of action. Now every skill (not core) in the game is an active...and every class can steal mana...except some classes can steal mana better than others, and the other classes now no longer have a passive they can rely on when they can't use their active skills. Do we not see the issue here? First we make it so classes don't have any 'centerpiece ' passive skill to fall back on, then we give every class a mana drain, and now we are left with classes having to attack with no benefit, or be hit with no benefit because they have no mana left to use their active skills...Most strategy games I have ever played have some kind of passive skill...they exist for a reason. I understand the need to limit them, but destroying them just brings up other problems...And no, core passives do not fill this role, because they are not class specific, and therefore provide nothing unique for a class.

Who is currently running balance? (not mad, just curious)

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 1
12/13/2013 23:58:48   
RageSoul
Member

Well Prophet my friend , they don't really have someone in charge in balance ( Titan and Rabble are Programmers , Charfade and NightWraith are Artists and Cindy and the others are in charge of other things / Testers , but no one's in a position of "Balance Team Head" or have "Balance Team" because it takes money and time to find one. )

Now for the EP issue .....

TBH , giving anybody a way to get EP / drain EP is basically ruining the variety , hence less chances of getting better balance . The class got heavily affected was Merc , since a) lacks more variety ( all of it's "good" builds relied on old Hybrid Armor ) and b) can easily get manipulated by other classes except for CH , TLM and BM ( still has difficulty though ) . Next ones are CH and BM , TLM is debatable .... but IDK .

Just my thoughts .
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/14/2013 0:08:13   
Nexus...
Member

Yeah but at least back when we had passives, EP drain didn't kill our chances of winning outright, because we had something to fall back on...

Thanks for the info, appreciate it.

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 3
12/14/2013 2:01:15   
kaiseryeux21
Member

agree with nexus. Who suggested the removal of passives anyway?? Not me definitely. Why not just lower the buff effect of passives?? Is complete removal really necessary? Now the effect is clear, whoever can steal and gain energy effectively had the best chance of winning the battle. That is is simply the reason why Ch, Merc and BM are at the bottom of the classes right now. Another example of failed assumption. Tsk tsk. I hope the time comes that right decisions will be made. I hopefully so.
DF Epic  Post #: 4
12/14/2013 3:56:01   
Mother1
Member

@ kaiseryeux21

I know of a few people who suggested this (I won't say names though) and their reasoning was because they were a must have for every build and they felt that if their were no passives then people would be more diverse.

Biggest joke I have heard. With the balance changes they did they just turned every build out their into energy destroyers since they turned every class into energy classes. Cyber hunter, Tech mage, and Tactical Merc lost what made them unique, while Blood mage and Bounty hunter kept their advantage and while gaining what the energy classes had.

But you know what is sad now? The same problem that they claimed passives brought is still here only difference is it has changed in the form of energy gainer/drainers. Now certain classes and builds are extremely hard press to compete with the flavor of the week builds, and even worse build copying once again has gone up due to this.
Epic  Post #: 5
12/14/2013 4:17:01   
edwardvulture
Member

Originally, I was against this, but what if they revamped the skill tree to have like 2 or 3 energy manipulating skill that may or may not damage your opponent. and may or may not scale on a stat that may or may not cost energy.The possibilities are endless.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
12/14/2013 4:39:28   
DarkDevil
Member

the problem with passives is that they were uncontrolable.

shield skills were causing too much trouble in low levels were 10 armor is tooooo much.
on the high levels bloodlust and deadly aim got too much power in compared to other passives.
it also happened that bloodmage was buged for having both passives and a bugged bludegon of 2.3 effectiveness.

so they removed them so things can now be balanced by cost or turns used.

lastly the energy problem , there was alot of ideas given to solve it , but they mods don't usually discuss with us but rarely so we can't get anything done.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
12/14/2013 6:08:31   
HydroMonk
Member

Yeah yeah Nexus... is right .

Cores vs Stats and 3 or 4 skills . . hm.

So.. do ya wanna use more skills ?
So.. use it and die .

RIP BloodLust.

Elite Bounty Hunter Hydro

Peace
Post #: 8
12/14/2013 11:55:50   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Mark if Blood is still pretty powerful, especially since it can be reused with Static Grenade.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
12/14/2013 12:41:20   
Stabilis
Member

The energy skills are nigh impossible to balance unless they get rewritten. Completely. And it does not help that classes like mine have 2 energy skills whereas others like Bounty Hunter only have 1.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
12/14/2013 16:22:47   
Nexus...
Member

I think it is a little upsetting that they don't have a designated head of balance. I know Ashari (a friend of mine) was head of balance for a very long time, and while she was there very little was done about balance at all. She had some great ideas to...And now we have no 'head' of balance, and all these balance changes are being made, and it seems as if they lack any direction. Almost as if someone randomly selected a balance suggestion and said 'Lets do it!'. Most games I have played (and yes I understand this is not most games, but we can learn), have had a PTR server open for selected players to play on to test changes (specifically balance changes), to make sure they worked, and were the best thing for the game.


I think the lesson to be learned here is that as long as there is no head of balance, and changes are coming that lack purpose and create new problems, we are just going to be going in circles. We need someone with vision, and we need the developers to take some time away from content to implement said persons vision to fix the game. Because as it stands, balance is in complete disarray. I played my first 10 games in about 7 months the other day, and faced 9 Bounty Hunters with the same build (I lost to them all). Maybe this is just me, but I don't want to play this game if I can't be creative and have a good chance at winning.

I said to one of the Bounty's I was playing 'wow I'm pretty bad at this game, arn't I?", and he kindly answered "No, bounty just overpowered." So why is he playing Bounty? Because people like to win, and the only way to win is to use the one build that can.

That's our problem.

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 11
12/14/2013 16:53:50   
martinsen5
Member

Isn't Rabble the only person working with ED's balance? If the game relies so much on balance being stable, they should really gather a whole team to work on that, and there are plenty of people in the Balance section who know what they're talking about who would qualify.
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
12/14/2013 17:03:10   
Altador987
Member

personally i just think some passives would be a lot better if they weren't so costly for example the cyber hunter (i use it more than my merc so my memory of the cost is better) : the class went from a 0 cost of possibly 10 added res at all times to it costing 25 for a lvl 7 for a certain length of time, it was such a huge jump in one fell swoop, it changed the gameplay completely and tho cy hunter is pretty bad regardless of the skill it's hard to cope so quickly without any real means of offense
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/14/2013 17:39:01   
newtena
Member

lol i am terribly disappointed in energy leach, performance.
Post #: 14
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