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12/12/2013 1:50:06   
Remorse
Member

Here is my idea what if they added a secondary type of cost (like energy) called stamina primarily for cores but for certain free costing skills to.

Stamina would be fixed at 50 (edit: perhaps multiply all figures by 10 to incorporate the new update) for every class and level and would regain at a fixed 5 stamina per turn.

Then things like cores can lose their EP cost an instead have a stamina cost ranging on 5-30 depending on the power of the core.
Also skills with no EP cost can be given a stamina cost increasing per level of the skill eg. given static grenades power, cost 35 stamina at max therefore limiting the cores they can use until they regain stamina at 5 per turn and enforcing the need to lower the level of the skill if they wish to be less constricted by stamina.

Other skills that should be given a stamina cost include static smash, assim, battery, energy parasite, static charge. (Edit: also possibly hybrid armour, mineral armour and shadow arts, see post 40)
With the stamina cost determined by the power of the skill.

This would make all skills have a cost and essentially limit abuse, with stamina restrictions increasing as the power of the skills increase, essentially helping to balance without nerfing power.


It will also reduce the burden of EP having the core costs as well as lets people be able to use cores once all their energy has been drained and give a bonus to drains costing EP such as atom and emp.

EDIT: Stamina costs should be given to almost all special robot moves with the cost of the special also determined by the power of the special.

What do you think?





List of balance issues Stamina Points potentially fixes or helps to reduce the impact of:

-High energy constraints
-Reliance on energy
-Skills having no downside maxing except for used skill points
-Heal/Energy looping
-Infinite energy draining
-Overpowered/Underpowered cores (the cost determined by power feature will bring the stronger ones down to average and the weaker ones up)
-Overpowered/Underpowered robots (same reason as cores)
-Overpowered/Underpowered currently free costing energy drains (same reason as cores)
-Energy drains costing energy, emp, atom, buff (If the other skills cost stamina then the ones costing energy have a new advantage)
-Underpowered skills (creating stamina creates new opportunities to buff skills more effectively then before such as making some shields like hybrid cost stamina)
-Many more!






< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/4/2014 10:25:29 >
Epic  Post #: 1
12/12/2013 2:32:12   
Jaseidon
Member

i think its a great idea and it would also force people to use different abilitys rather than spamming the same one whenever its ready
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/12/2013 5:48:01   
RageSoul
Member

Since this is a good idea , why not make cores cost Health as well? That way , people will no longer rely on just ONE resource ( Energy obviousely ) .
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
12/12/2013 5:57:19   
axell5
Member

well if this suggestion is done then they would use stamina points(SP) to cast cores(active of course) and skills that didn't have energy costs(all static skills, asiimilator, battery backup and bloodshield, can't think of the rest)
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 4
12/12/2013 7:13:41   
Remorse
Member

^ Yes that is exactly what will happen.

I will add the term "points" to the end to make it become Stamina points.

@ Rage,

They could indeed add hp costing cores though HP is very valuable.

Though I don't see why they can't share some costs to HP as well especially for specific unique cores.

Epic  Post #: 5
12/12/2013 12:34:29   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

while this sounds like an interesting idea, wouldn't this be doing the one thing you hated which is add more restrictions since you admitted that this idea is for limiting moves?
Epic  Post #: 6
12/12/2013 12:36:22   
axell5
Member

how limiting if the SP goes up by 5 every your turn and you don't have to use energy for cores?
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 7
12/12/2013 12:44:13   
Mother1
Member

@ Axell5

This idea also suggests giving moves that have no cost to use them a cost in this case a SP cost. By doing that as Remorse said it would LIMIT the amount of times someone could use a move which in turn adds restriction.
Epic  Post #: 8
12/12/2013 13:32:44   
axell5
Member

oh true, but i guess now people could use cores more freely
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 9
12/12/2013 13:59:56   
Predator9657
Member

This seems interesting. It would add a whole new level of strategy to ED since you would need to plan ahead not only EP-wise but also SP.

Also a nice way to balance skills which have no energy costs and this will allow more cores to be used more, since they wont require EP but rather SP.
Epic  Post #: 10
12/12/2013 20:29:08   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Entirely ignoring balance, sounds like the next epiphany in terms of fun for PvP. Making a 3rd resource just like HP and EP would definitely up mixed and varied fights rather than repetitive ones. Some skills could recover EP/HP AND SP too, or consume it as well.
Epic  Post #: 11
12/13/2013 1:00:59   
Remorse
Member

@mother,
What I dislike are restrictions that effect variety.
Stamina is more restricting the power of skills whilst at the same time hppefully increasing variety by removing ep restrictions.
Also I have always had the opinion everything should be counterable and currently free costing skill are not aside from blocking them.

@ penguin
Eventually if they were to use stamina once it settles in then the could have effects increasing/decrease it though it need to be balanced ou first.

I really hope they consider this because like you said it will make battles more interesting as well as improve balance.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/13/2013 1:28:50 >
Epic  Post #: 12
12/22/2013 17:58:58   
Midnightsoul
Member

Supported.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/22/2013 23:55:45   
NDB
Member

Yeah, the free skills have really bothering me too. The difference of energy costs between Static and EMP Grenade is too great the way things are now, and similarily with Static/Atom Smasher. I'd also really like something done about Blood Shield too, and changing it's health cost to SP would be good.
Epic  Post #: 14
12/23/2013 10:00:57   
Remorse
Member

^ Great idea NDB,

Blood shield would become actually useful if it had a stamina cost, making it cost HP is too much to ask for a player when you consider they also have to sacrifice a turn with no damage as well.

It will also set blood shield apart from the others sheilds still, as being a different cost to other shields is great for variety and freedom.



Problem with EMP and atom smash now is not that they are weak they are not it is that they can be so easily compared and easily classified as not as strong as the static counterparts, this should not be the case for any skill.

They all should be beyond comparable which allows for true variety and leads to greater self-balancing balance.

If emp and atom were different to the static skill in the fact that they cost energy while the other cost stamina then suddenly they become uncomparable as not costing stamina opens up new advantages which is they don't have to deal with stamina constraints.






I have also been doing some thinking and stamina could solve many other problems as well.


Such as adrenaline rush skill,
Perhaps adrenaline rush could also increase stamina gain rate for 3 turns while also gaining rage improving the skill and give in strategy properties.


Also shield like mineral armour, hybrid armour, plasma armour, and shadow arts could perhaps be given a stamina cost rather then energy making these shield uncomparable with the energy costing ones and giving them a whole new potential for variety and strategies.

Also to give a needed buff to intimidate, as well as draining strength like it does currently it could also reduce the opponents stamina gain rate during it's duration which would also be logical whilst also giving intim a needed buff.

Another little adjustment is perhaps reflex boost could be given a small increase in stamina gain rate during it's duration, which is both logical and makes up for the small energy gain effect it used to have.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/23/2013 10:24:06 >
Epic  Post #: 15
12/23/2013 21:32:46   
martinsen5
Member

I'd love to see your stamina idea be in ED! Tbh having to pick between using a core instead of my actual skills that make my build unique, due to both costing EP, is the worst thing I know of.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
12/25/2013 2:20:42   
NDB
Member

Idk, here are just some things that I was thinking about, Not saying their necessary or good; Rather, I'm just throwing the ideas out there in case anybody actually likes them.

In addition to having free skills cost stamina, other free attacks should also have a small cost. For example, robot specials (after all, they are considered skill cores too, so I'm not entirely sure why they don't have an energy cost right now anyway) and possibly even regular attacks besides strike such as gun, aux, and the regular bot attack. I mean, essentially, anything other than the basic strike can be considered a "skill" as it adds something special that strike does not have. For example, sidearm is a "skill" that automatically makes your attack deflectable instead of blockable and aux and robot are just standard attack "skills" that function in the same way in that they improve with a particular stat (like Plasma Bolt, except their deflectable and blockable). They would be small costs though. Gun would be like 5 SP, Aux 10, and Robot 2 per focus level. And to make this less of a nerf for support users, and more of a needed buff, support could have something to do with the amount of SP you gain per turn. And once they rework Rage somehow, they could also maybe add in SP in with that as well, seeing as Rage is arguably to most powerful free "skill" in the game.
Epic  Post #: 17
12/25/2013 2:38:02   
Mother1
Member

NDB

Making everything cost something with the exception of the basic strike? Bad idea IMO. Many of the current builds would be crippled even worse then they are now if every but the basic strike was made to cost something.

Epic  Post #: 18
12/25/2013 2:43:02   
Remorse
Member

^ Perhaps it is the strike spamming "current" builds that need to be brought down a notch as to allow for noncompeting variety to suddenly become competitive.


I like the idea NDB,

Though I think strike, gun, aux should all have the same cost of say 3-5 stamina because while aux is stronger yes it is also a longer CD.

The robot specials however should indeed get a reasonably high stamina cost some of them are clearly stronger then others and stamina could be used to lower their power by lowering their flexibility and bring them to a more equal state.


EG. Infernal android could get a extra stamina point cost per turn meaning is you wait for ages to use it you will also have to make sure you have enough stamina to use it incorporating strategy rather then making the bot a free win if you can make it a long battle and time it with rage.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/25/2013 2:44:55 >
Epic  Post #: 19
12/25/2013 2:51:16   
PyroxideED
Member

I'd like to see Stamina implemented in to EpicDuel, as it could change our thought process in battles and not make it so Health/Energy orientated.

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
12/25/2013 3:27:23   
NDB
Member

@mother1 Just because giving everything a cost sounds bad, doesn't mean it is. It's not going to "cripple builds" at all. Adding a tiny cost is basically just saying "it's free, but it's not free", where it honestly doesn't really effect the game play that much, but makes logical sense in that these attacks are more powerful than strike. I mean, if you use Aux, for example, for like 10 SP, and then next turn you gain 5 SP, you barely lost anything.

@Remorse Well, if you only give them all a 3-5 Stamina cost, it's still "free" because you'll gain 5 back right away the next turn. And strike might be tricky because there's always the excuse where somehow, you have no other attacks but strike and you have no SP at the same time... Although, the IA idea actually sounds very interesting and I like it a lot. Makes perfect logical sense; stronger it is, the higher the cost and therefore you have to think twice before trying to stall the game out if you don't have much SP.

< Message edited by NDB -- 12/25/2013 3:28:39 >
Epic  Post #: 21
12/25/2013 3:46:08   
Remorse
Member

^ NDB,

They are not free by any means.


If it was anything more then 5 then their would be scenarios were a player can not do a single thing during a turn.


Having it cost 3-5 means yes it does not cost much but if they were trying to regain stamina to a higher amount say if they wanted to use a core or a robot special, then they would have to start using energy costing skills instead because they can't gain stamina if whatever they get per turn is used in an attack.

3-5 is actually a rather large cost for attacks that were once free.

In fact it might be appropriate to create cores that remove or reduce the stamina cost for that weapon eg. side arm passive core or primary core that removed or reduced the stamina cost of the gun/primary basic attack, so players could use those attacks and gain stamina to use special cores/robot special/free costing energy regian-drain skill.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/25/2013 3:50:56 >
Epic  Post #: 22
12/26/2013 5:21:21   
edwardvulture
Member

interesting, what if the regen scaled on support
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 23
12/26/2013 5:38:08   
Remorse
Member

^ I like that idea,

Because it wont technically add power to support builds skills but it will give them a buff in terms of strategy and flexibility.

It will also mean support may have to be invested into STR builds if they wish to be less stamina constricted.


It means support can have a use rather then just mainly luck bonuses.
A buff greatly needed since it is not usually worth investing average stats into support ( Unless you have to because your a focus build) making higher STR/HP too strong versus other builds.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/26/2013 5:39:52 >
Epic  Post #: 24
12/27/2013 6:22:56   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

good idea remorse.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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